NYR Fan 116894

Rob Gronkowski 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Thread for previous season automatically locked. Feel free to post a new thread for 2019.]

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4 minutes ago, FinsUp24 said:

 

Looked fine to me. Brady missed him on a couple throws and Bills had great coverage against him. Pretty sweet 22 yard catch. Not gonna complain with 8 targets (one of those being a RZ Target). Better days ahead. 

 

Gets zero separation anymore. He looks slow as ishh now. I’m sorry man if u don’t think so your playing yourself. I’d use the giph don’t feel like looking it up atm. 

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2 minutes ago, FinsUp24 said:

 

Looked fine to me. Brady missed him on a couple throws and Bills had great coverage against him. Pretty sweet 22 yard catch. Not gonna complain with 8 targets (one of those being a RZ Target). Better days ahead. 

I agree, a few plays before that Gronk went deep and Brady over threw him. It was longer than 22 yards, i don't remember exactly how many yards. Could've had a big game, Brady just didn't look right.

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15 minutes ago, chud12 said:

 

Gets zero separation anymore. He looks slow as ishh now. I’m sorry man if u don’t think so your playing yourself. I’d use the giph don’t feel like looking it up atm. 

Gronk never really got separation.

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8 hours ago, devaster said:

Gronk never really got separation.

 

He got separation in his prime, that is just not true. 

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Feel bad for everyone who drafted this guy because it probably cost you a 2nd round pick. This is why I will never, ever use a 4th or earlier on a tightend. 

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He definitely used to get more separation. He just looks like he's laboring every play now. 

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26 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

Feel bad for everyone who drafted this guy because it probably cost you a 2nd round pick. This is why I will never, ever use a 4th or earlier on a tightend. 

 

It was worth spending a 3rd or 4th on Kelce/Ertz.

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It's a bit much to use Gronk this year as proof of why it's bad strategy taking a TE early. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I won a championship one year drafting Graham early when he played for the Saints and he was awesome for me. Rotoworld recency bias at work. 

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The good news - his back was okay enough for them to ask him to try and block  defensive tackles.

 

The bad news - he doesn't get the easy targets.  I have no clue why.  He can be standing wide open in the flats and he doesn't get targeted.  I saw this 3 times, the most blatant one at the end zone where he standing there wide open.  Another concern to me is that Brady looks bad on a lot of deep balls.  Hopefully it was just the wind, but Gronk's first target was out of bounds, and his circus catch wasn't a good throw either.

 

Also, I don't know why anyone is talking about separation.  Getting away from LB is one thing, he isn't going to separate from corners.  For whatever reason, he is still allowed to be mugged 10 yards downfield.  He looked fine but had awful passes targeting him.  The sideline was out of bounds, the one over the middle was underthrown and ended up almost picked, the end zone target was at his ankles (!?!?), just not a lot of good looks.

Edited by Sternes
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James white and Sony are killing the value of the Pats intermediate to long passing game and redzone skills players.

instead of going to gronk or anyone else Hoodie prefers to get the ball to white or sony when healthy.

 

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Man the one year I pay up for this guy and he's killing me. He look sluggish and Brady is content with dumpoffs most games.

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He really doesn’t look healthy to me. I’ve had my own back issues with discs and to me it looks like it’s really affecting him. Maybe some of it is the offense operating the way it is, but there’s a clear difference in how he looks even compared to last year.

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Just now, Helmholtz_Watsonn said:

75% of the Pat's offense consists of dump offs to James White. That leaves very little else available for Gronk and everyone else. 

 

That will change.  Defenses will start to scheme towards White opening things up downfield.  Just my .02

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Just now, cnewbykkn said:

 

That will change.  Defenses will start to scheme towards White opening things up downfield.  Just my .02

 

Nobody seems to have caught on the last 5 games or so. 

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27 minutes ago, dashoe said:

James white and Sony are killing the value of the Pats intermediate to long passing game and redzone skills players.

instead of going to gronk or anyone else Hoodie prefers to get the ball to white or sony when healthy.

 

 

 

Wait what? Sony has a whopping 4 receptions with no more than 1 in any game. His role in passing game has absolutely nothing to do with Gronk's lack of usage in the passing game.

 

White is a different story and seems to be primary read more often than he used to be. To me, it looks like it's a combination of Gronk not being healthy and the Patriots making an effort to not overuse him.

Edited by Godfather131

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Just now, Godfather131 said:

 

 

Wait what? Sony has a whopping 4 receptions with no more than 1 in any game. His role in passing game has absolutely nothing to do with Gronk's lack of usage in the passing game.

 

White is a different story and seems to be primary read more often than he used to be. To me, it looks like it's a combination of Gronk not being healthy and the Patriots making an effort to not overuse him.

 

 

 at no point did i say pass to Sony. I said 'get the 'ball to' which would include carries+targets. it doesnt matter the delivery. it's about opportunity. Hoodie likes using his rb's in the redzone where gronk used to dominate, therefore Gronk has les redzone opportunity and white+sony have more.

 

Pease don't let this devolve into you debating a point I never made. Thx! :)

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9 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

 at no point did i say pass to Sony. I said 'get the 'ball to' which would include carries+targets. it doesnt matter the delivery. it's about opportunity. Hoodie likes using his rb's in the redzone where gronk used to dominate, therefore Gronk has les redzone opportunity and white+sony have more.

 

Pease don't let this devolve into you debating a point I never made. Thx! :)

 

So you're saying since the Patriots running the ball 20 times a game with Sony takes away targets from Gronk...? Huh?

 

That would have to imply that in past years when Gronk's passing game usage was higher, they weren't running as much. Huh?

 

Patriots using their RBs more in red area this year is limiting Gronk's usage? Huh? Every year they are near top in total red zone TDs for RBs so this heavy RB usage in red area is absolutely nothing new...

 

Still perplexed as to what you're talking about. Sony literally has zero to do with Gronk's usage. An argument can be made for White's usage playing a role but honestly not much since White's amount of catches is close to in line with what he did last year as well before getting hurt.

 

EDIT: At this point last year he had 56 targets as opposed to 43 targets this year. Quite a difference, but I would argue that Gronk not being 100% and Edelman's presence as safety blanket are the main reason's he is seeing less targets. I don't think White and Sony have much to do with it.

Edited by Godfather131

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1 minute ago, Godfather131 said:

 

So you're saying the Patriots to run the ball 20 times a game with Sony takes away targets from Gronk...? Huh?

 

So in past years when Gronk's passing game usage was higher, they weren't running as much? Huh?

 

Patriots using their RBs more in red area this year is limiting Gronk's usage? Huh? Every year they are near top in total red zone TDs for RBs so this is nothing new...

 

Still perplexed as to what you're talking about. Sony literally has zero to do with Gronk's usage. An argument can be made for White's usage playing a role but honestly not much since White's amount of catches is close to in line with what he did last year as well before getting hurt.

 

maybe you are not sure what redzone opportunity is and that teams don't automatically get in the redzone and players don't have unlimited opportunities to score when in the redzone and only 1 player can  score in the redzone if it is a handoff and only one guy can catch a td  if it is a pass and only one guy get kicking points? So if the coach calls rb specific plays regardless of pass or rush then the TE/wr  will not get the opportunity to score?

 

This is is when things go sideways for the sake of going sideways . . . the thread is yours now have fun with this mate! :)

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4 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

maybe you are not sure what redzone opportunity is and that teams don't automatically get in the redzone and players don't have unlimited opportunities to score when in the redzone and only 1 player can  score in the redzone if it is a handoff and only one guy can catch a td  if it is a pass and only one guy get kicking points? So if the coach calls rb specific plays regardless of pass or rush then the TE/wr  will not get the opportunity to score?

 

This is is when things go sideways for the sake of going sideways . . . the thread is yours now have fun with this mate! :)

 

I know perfectly well what red zone opportunity and that team's don't automatically get int he red zone. Nothing I said implies otherwise...Youre above run-on sentence makes little sense, sir.

 

I am just pointing out that White and Sony have little (if anything) to do with Gronk's usage this season.

 

The Patriots have always used their RBs heavily in the red area, so your point that this year has been different and directly causing Gronk's usage to go down is simply incorrect. Gronk's usage as gone down in the red area and in between the 20s. That obviously can't be debated. I would argue that his usage in between the 20s has more to do with Edelman being there, and an argument can be made that in the red area it's because of White as you mentioned.

 

But as I originally said, it has NOTHING to do with Sony. At all. Bc his rushing attempts in and out of the red area is nothing new for this team. Every year their end game output at that position is the same whether it be one guy or a few.

 

 

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I guess we need to look back at the old Pat teams that Gronk dominated fantasy wise on.  What made him successful?  Do the Pats have too many WR and RB options?  Gronk used to even not be the lone fantasy stud TE on the Pats and still would do fine.  It's strange, maybe he just isn't the 'matchup nightmare' he once was and can be covered easily now causing tighter windows for an aging TB12 to rarely hit.  

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He’s getting double coverage in the red zone like he always has but can’t get the separation needed to beat it. It’s fair to say he has lost a step but the defense is still keying in on him like he hasn’t.

Edited by WaiverLooter

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36 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

I guess we need to look back at the old Pat teams that Gronk dominated fantasy wise on.  What made him successful?  Do the Pats have too many WR and RB options?  Gronk used to even not be the lone fantasy stud TE on the Pats and still would do fine.  It's strange, maybe he just isn't the 'matchup nightmare' he once was and can be covered easily now causing tighter windows for an aging TB12 to rarely hit.  

 

 To me, it looks like he's not healthy and being asked to block more. As a result White is getting more passing game targets in red area and the return of Edelman is playing a role too (He has 20% of targets in red zone) White and Edelman are making up 50% of the red zone pass attempts themselves...

 

Last year, they averaged 6 rush attempts per game in the red area as opposed to a shade under 4.5 per game this year. As someone previously mentioned, rush attempts have absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

I can't find amount of routes run compared to snap count for 2017, but I'd be interested to see if he's running less routes and blocking more since he doesn't seem fully healthy and as a way to preserve his health...

Edited by Godfather131

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24 minutes ago, WaiverLooter said:

He’s getting double coverage in the red zone like he always has but can’t get the separation needed to beat it. It’s fair to say he has lost a step but the defense is still keying in on him like he hasn’t.

 

He has always been doubled it he red zone...

 

And actually if you look up the numbers, he is generally getting more separation this year than he did last year...

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