NYR Fan 116894

Rob Gronkowski 2018 Outlook

tonycpsu

[Thread for previous season automatically locked. Feel free to post a new thread for 2019.]

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$3.3MM isn't really all that much dough for Mr. Kraft, who is already paying Gronk an $8MM base salary.  NFL bonuses are like sales bonuses / commissions...your boss wants you to hit them.  Put the tinfoil hats away, draft Gronk in 2nd round, have a happy fantasy season, thank me later!

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55 minutes ago, Al.Davis said:

$3.3MM isn't really all that much dough for Mr. Kraft, who is already paying Gronk an $8MM base salary.  NFL bonuses are like sales bonuses / commissions...your boss wants you to hit them.  Put the tinfoil hats away, draft Gronk in 2nd round, have a happy fantasy season, thank me later!

SALARY

 

CAP

 

no one thinks robert kraft cares about 3 million dollars

3 million dollars is a possession receiver etc they won't be able to sign

 

we've actually already been over this in great detail

Edited by Cotton Jones
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9 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

SALARY

 

CAP

 

no one thinks robert kraft cares about 3 million dollars

3 million dollars is a possession receiver etc they won't be able to sign

 

we've actually already been over this in great detail

 

We get it.  You think there is a conspiracy out there based on no real evidence.  You are afraid of Gronk being benched and they let ALL the other 1's plays.  Don't draft him then.  This is the Gronk thread.

 

You are just arguing against shadows at this point. By the way, I hope they bench Brady too, to prevent him from getting his bonuses.  Why not bench the whole team one game to save money?

 

2018 Incentives: $1M each for
Top 5 in passer rating (LTBE)
Top 5 in completion percentage (LTBE)
Top 5 in yards per attempt (LTBE)
Top 5 in touchdown passes (LTBE)
Top 5 in passing yards (LTBE)

 

Or Hightower

Annual Per Game Active Bonus: $54,687 ($875,000, 5 LTBE in 2018)

Annual 80% defensive snaps bonus: $1M

 

Or Patterson

Playing Time Incentives
$350,000 for 55%
$350,000 for 70%
$350,000 for 55 receptions
$350,000 for 70 receptions

 

Edited by Sternes

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1 minute ago, Sternes said:

 

We get it.  You think there is a conspiracy out there based on no real evidence. 

15 hours ago, Sternes said:

Let me know when a player has been benched like that on any team, and especially on the Pats.  

 

14 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

Ok.

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/29/denver-broncos-jamaal-charles-bonus-benched/

A simple google will provide plenty of "crazy conspiracy theories" like players getting screwed out of incentives.

 

I think you may have conveniently overlooked this part of the thread.

 

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14 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

 

 

I think you may have conveniently overlooked this part of the thread.

 

 

Per your own article,

 

Charles will probably be inactive again in the Broncos’ season finale against the Chiefs, so it’s understandable that the running back wants to be cut. In addition to being inactive despite still being productive, Charles was benched just before he reached an incentive.

 

According to Charles’ contract details (published by KUSA-TV’s Mike Klis), the running back could have earned up to $1.25 million worth of incentives this season based on his performance. The first bonus would have been $100,000 for 500 yards from scrimmage.

 

Charles needed to average just 37.5 yards per contest in Denver’s final two games to reach that first incentive. Now he won’t even get an opportunity to. He’ll also miss out on a $156,250 bonus for dressing in the team’s final two games ($78,125 per game).

 

Charles wasn't productive last year.  He missed out on a 100K bonus because he didn't get to 500 yards from scrimmage.  This of course would have nothing to do with the season being over and them wanting to try out younger guys behind CJ.  Charles averaged 30.35 yards per game last year, which means he have needed to outperform his season average.  His three highest carry games were week 1, 2, and 3.

 

I'm sure you think they also denied him all these other bonuses too.  Maybe they missed the playoffs on purpose to save money.

 

Yards from Scrimmage Incentives
500 yards from scrimmage: $100,000
500 yards plus Broncos make playoffs: $150,000
750 yards from scrimmage: $300,000
750 yards plus Broncos make playoffs: $400,000
1,000 yards from scrimmage: $500,000
1,000 yards plus playoffs: $650,000
1,200 yards yards from scrimmage: $700,000
1,200 yards plus playoffs: $900,000
1,400 yards from scrimmage: $1 million
1,400 yards plus playoffs: $1.25 million

 

hqdefault.jpg

Edited by Sternes

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16 hours ago, Sternes said:

 

Because what are suggesting is dumb.  Pats play to win, they aren't going to feed a guy just to get a bonus

 

Malcolm Butler would like a word.

 

17 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

If the Pats have an incentive to cap Gronk in garbage time/end of season that's not cool

This was literally a page ago.

 

That was what I said, that's what I have been saying, you can try and stretch it into something ridiculous like "BB told Tom not to throw to gronk" if you want to

 

If you think it's out of the realm of possibility to bench Gronk in a non-essentially situation to save cap space you are really drinking the koolaid. BB is the personnel guy, right? 

 

Like I said I hope gronk has 5 td's in the first few games and it's all moot, and he blows it out of the water.

 

You guys sure are defensive about anyone challenging your precious Gronk.

 

 

 

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If you don't understand that ownership wants their players to hit the incentives then you don't understand business. Kraft wants gronk to grab 15 tds and be healthy all 16 games into the playoffs. If you could guarantee him that he would probably pay gronk double his salary.

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12 minutes ago, tjspark said:

If you don't understand that ownership wants their players to hit the incentives then you don't understand business. 

 

Care to elaborate, or just paint with the broadest brush you can find?

 

12 minutes ago, tjspark said:

Kraft wants gronk to grab 15 tds and be healthy all 16 games into the playoffs. If you could guarantee him that he would probably pay gronk double his salary.

 

I don't understand business? I don't think you understand how incentives work in the NFL.

So this is the 3rd time I've been over this. No one think Kraft cares about money. We all know he's filthy rich. The NFL has a hard salary cap and Gronk's incentives can count up to a max 3.3 million against the 2019 cap. BB is the guy who makes personnel decisions in the offseason. Also the guy who makes on-field decisions.

 

This is what I have been saying this whole time.

All things being equal, in a non-essential situation, do you think BB is going to play Gronk and let him hit target and take 1.1-3.3 mil off the 2019 cap, or sit him down, and say "Gronk is questionable with a lower body injury" 

What kind of track record do the Pats have here with how they treat their players?

Non-essential situation = Pats lock up their seeding early, or a game at any point of the season where it's a blowout.

LIke I said, "ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL" you can either play Gronk and let him take money off your 2019 cap, or sit him down, and the outcome for your team is the same.

Do you really think BB is such a nice guy that he wants Gronk to get paid that extra couple mil? Or do you think he'd rather have the cap space to play with in 2019?

 

And again for the third time if Gronk comes out and totally blows up this doesn't matter. I hope that's what happens. For the third time.

This obviously only matters if he's right around his incentive targets at the end of the season. 

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6 minutes ago, Al.Davis said:

Let us not forget that Gronk broke his forearm in 2012 blocking on a PAT attempt while the Pats were up 52 to 24 with under 6 minutes left in the game.

 

New England, like Herm Edwards, plays to win the game.

 

https://thebiglead.com/2012/11/19/rob-gronkowski-broke-his-forearm-blocking-on-an-extra-point-up-59-24/

LOL

Malcolm Butler happened 6 months ago

 

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The Broncos screwing JC out of his bonus in a lost season isn't an apples to apples comparison, unless you think the Pats are going to fall out of the playoff hunt. 

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Patriots also don't steamroll every opponent, have the ability to rest Gronk in garbage time. Over a quarter of Bradys wins have fourth quarter comebacks, the Patriots are generationally amazing but they still have to fight to win.

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Gronk almost traded this off-season? No way in hell it would be to the Jets right? Bad relationship and in division. Dallas? Packers before JG signing? What team could it have been? lol

 

Quote

According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, the Patriots were on the verge of trading Rob Gronkowski this offseason but the tight end strongly resisted, claiming he'd rather retire than play for another team.

The Patriots engaged a number of teams in trade talks and were close to pulling the trigger before Gronk intervened, imploring New England to call the deal off. Rapoport added that people close to Gronkowski know the tight end "only wants to catch passes from Tom Brady." Gronkowski considered retirement this offseason but ultimately decided to return following a face-to-face meeting with Bill Belichick in April. To ease some of the tension, the Patriots added performance incentives to the 29-year-old's contract earlier this summer.
Source: NFL.com
Sep 9 - 8:24 AM

 

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My understanding was that Gronk prefers the incentives because he has never spent any of his base salary to date.

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On 8/31/2018 at 9:51 AM, tjspark said:

If you don't understand that ownership wants their players to hit the incentives then you don't understand business. Kraft wants gronk to grab 15 tds and be healthy all 16 games into the playoffs. If you could guarantee him that he would probably pay gronk double his salary.

 

Exactly... But he doesn't want to pay him as much if he doesn't do these things.

 

Honestly NFL teams get away with murder on the way these contracts get structured.  Look at how good baseball is to its players, who don't have to deal with CTE.

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2 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

 

Exactly... But he doesn't want to pay him as much if he doesn't do these things.

 

Honestly NFL teams get away with murder on the way these contracts get structured.  Look at how good baseball is to its players, who don't have to deal with CTE.

Baseball players deserve it more 162 games vs 16. NFL Players are the teachers of athletes :lol:

 

But honestly, with the hard cap and short careers but players wanting long term deals, they can't guarantee money, if they did players would make less than they do now because everyone would be loaded up with dead cap and heavy commitments to ineffective players. 

 

But at 16 games per year (only 8 home games!) that greatly reduces the ability to make gate revenue. Hurts the ability to ask for what other sports get in comparison. 

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1 minute ago, StevieStats said:

Baseball players deserve it more 162 games vs 16. NFL Players are the teachers of athletes :lol:

 

But honestly, with the hard cap and short careers but players wanting long term deals, they can't guarantee money, if they did players would make less than they do now because everyone would be loaded up with dead cap and heavy commitments to ineffective players. 

 

But at 16 games per year (only 8 home games!) that greatly reduces the ability to make gate revenue. Hurts the ability to ask for what other sports get in comparison. 

 

This is highly untrue and the lie that NFL owners keep wanting people to believe.  

 

The NFL continues to get away with not even having to sustain a minor league system cause college does that for them for virtually free.

 

Just mathematically compare average salary of an NFL player to an MLB player.  Then remember that The NFL brings in substantially more money than The MLB.  Granted this gap has been being closed over the last 3-4 years.

 

The Salary Cap was more so intended for owners to have an excuse not to pay guys rather than make all teams competitive.  Baseball the most competitive sport has never had a salary cap.  Granted baseball the sport itself is a more competitive sport than say football.  But there are other ways to make rules than limit the players and everyone has fallen for this lie that the salary cap makes The NFL more competitive when really it's only allowed owners to keep more money instead of giving it to the players.

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31 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

But at 16 games per year (only 8 home games!) that greatly reduces the ability to make gate revenue. Hurts the ability to ask for what other sports get in comparison. 

 

To dig further into why this isn't true.

 

NFL despite having less games has always brought in substantially more revenue than The MLB.  Less games = less overhead.  So if revenue was equal on both sides the less game playing sport is more profitable.  16 to 162 you're talking 10 times more profitable.  You're staffing your stadium 10 times less.  Paying for the utilities of that stadium 10 times less (well not quite 10 times in this case but you get the picture).

 

Just one last question while we are here.... How is the average NHL Player's salary higher than the average NFL player's salary?  Their revenue is insanely disproportionate. 

 

Edited by FouLLine
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Shockingly quiet in this thread. Just another day at the office for Gronk.

 

I really think barring good health this guy is a league winner this year. There is no other player as much of a given with a full season to clearly be the number one overall scorer at his position.

 

With Wentz on the mend and Mahomes not as big on the check downs as smith was, we could really see the gap between Gronk and that second tier of TEs widen this season. 

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On 9/9/2018 at 7:54 AM, Kyle87 said:

My understanding was that Gronk prefers the incentives because he has never spent any of his base salary to date.

But he won't hit incentives if he gets injured. The team does a contract like that because it is beneficial to the team. Just because he doesn't spend any of his salary earned in the NFL has nothing to do with it. Incentives and base salary are still from the same income source for Gronk and he doesn't spend either.

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23 hours ago, FouLLine said:

 

To dig further into why this isn't true.

 

NFL despite having less games has always brought in substantially more revenue than The MLB.  Less games = less overhead.  So if revenue was equal on both sides the less game playing sport is more profitable.  16 to 162 you're talking 10 times more profitable.  You're staffing your stadium 10 times less.  Paying for the utilities of that stadium 10 times less (well not quite 10 times in this case but you get the picture).

 

Just one last question while we are here.... How is the average NHL Player's salary higher than the average NFL player's salary?  Their revenue is insanely disproportionate. 

 

 

Roster size of the NHL vs.NFL probably has something to do with it. 

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On 9/9/2018 at 11:42 AM, FouLLine said:

 

To dig further into why this isn't true.

 

NFL despite having less games has always brought in substantially more revenue than The MLB.  Less games = less overhead.  So if revenue was equal on both sides the less game playing sport is more profitable.  16 to 162 you're talking 10 times more profitable.  You're staffing your stadium 10 times less.  Paying for the utilities of that stadium 10 times less (well not quite 10 times in this case but you get the picture).

 

Just one last question while we are here.... How is the average NHL Player's salary higher than the average NFL player's salary?  Their revenue is insanely disproportionate. 

 

Has anyone mentioned TV contracts? I'm pretty sure this is where the bread is buttered. The NFL has a deal with Directv for the Sunday Ticket package. It's huge. They have a deal with ESPN/ABC for MNF. Now they have a deal with Fox (used to be with CBS) for TNF. SNF deal with NBC. Under Goodell they've expanded to TNF and their own network which has grown a lot, which means more advertising dollars. Why did they want to expand to TNF? More exposure? Of course not. It was about TV money. CBS originally was the high bidder on TNF, this go-round FOX outbid them. 

 

MLB has the extra innings package, baseball contract for select nights with ESPN, all the regional networks like the comcast sports net channels/fox sports locals, then for postseason FOX has the WS and ALCS/DS, TBS has the WC and the NLCS/DS.

 

I reckon that the NFL makes way, way more money in TV contracts. Fantasy football and now legalized state-by-state sports gambling is just going to keep adding eyeballs to NFL games, which increases ad revenue, which increases the size of NFL tv contracts.

 

Meanwhile the MLB's fanbase is not keeping up at all. Going the wrong direction. And I love baseball.

 

Last time I remember hearing a figure was that the NFL had 5 or 6 bil in revenue for a given year. What was baseball's?

 

NFL players are getting screwed.

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