thebrowns

2018 Rookie QB Class

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1 minute ago, hoppychokes said:

Are there any current NFL starters that played with Wyoming? The best receiver he had was Tanner Gentry and had his best season. He was on a team absolutely bereft of talent.

 

Lots of top rated shut down CBs in the Mountain West this year?

WR talent is not an issue when you're talking 1st round NFL QBs.

 

Good QBs get marginal WRs into the NFL. 

 

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3 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

Lots of top rated shut down CBs in the Mountain West this year?

WR talent is not an issue when you're talking 1st round NFL QBs.

 

Good QBs get marginal WRs into the NFL. 

 

Doesn't matter if they're top rated when they're going against scrubs worse than they are. And I'm not talking about just receivers, I am referencing his entire team. As to what I quoted, it would be like if Stafford had played for Vanderbilt in the SEC.

 

And for the record, Allen did get Gentry into the NFL..

Edited by hoppychokes

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30 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Are we seriously comparing starting QB 57% completion percentage between the Mountain West Conference and the SEC????

 

Matt Stafford was playing against teams like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, etc.

Allen's biggest competition was the movie "Old School" starring Will Ferrel.

 

Common man!!

 

You miss read my post/didn't do enough reading of the thread. The argument was that none had been successful with a completion percentage below 58.5. Stafford had a career completion percentage under that and two of the seasons under that. 

 

I called Stafford an outlier and that i never bet on the outlier. Nice slam on the mountain West.  But i didn't say they were the same. Although Stafford is an example of the shall percentage of qbs who can overcome early accuracy issues. 

 

In this class Jackson has a better shot at being Stafford than Allen does. (I'm not saying that he will be) 

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16 minutes ago, thebrowns said:

 

You miss read my post/didn't do enough reading of the thread. The argument was that none had been successful with a completion percentage below 58.5. Stafford had a career completion percentage under that and two of the seasons under that. 

 

I called Stafford an outlier and that i never bet on the outlier. Nice slam on the mountain West.  But i didn't say they were the same. Although Stafford is an example of the shall percentage of qbs who can overcome early accuracy issues. 

 

In this class Jackson has a better shot at being Stafford than Allen does. (I'm not saying that he will be) 

 

The 58.5 was based on the last year of college.  Which Stafford did better than.  So he wouldn't really be an outlier.

If anything it would be a good sign that he improved his accuracy pretty drastically every year.

Allen has basically been the same two years in a row.

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56 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

The 58.5 was based on the last year of college.  Which Stafford did better than.  So he wouldn't really be an outlier.

If anything it would be a good sign that he improved his accuracy pretty drastically every year.

Allen has basically been the same two years in a row.

 

Yeah, i saw you say that earlier. Thanks for sharing the Reddit feed. I've said this, but if anyone in this class comps to Stafford it is Jackson. shows that year by year improvement. But i wouldn't bet on Allen or Jackson or Alan Jackson. 

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9 hours ago, thebrowns said:

After a less than stellar combine it seems like Lamar Jackson is in a great position to slip into the second round. Which means that almost every team will have 1-2 shots to draft him. I was thinking of the best fits for him and decided that it would be interesting for us to comment on where we think the best fits for all of these players might be; ignoring the reality that few if any will make it to the ideal fit. All of these guys appear to be in position to benefit from sitting for a year, IMO. I thought I'd start with listing aging veterans.

 

(2018 age)

NE - Tom Brady (41)

NO - Drew Brees (39)

NYG - Eli Manning (37)

LAC - Phillip Rivers (36/37) [born in december]

PIT - Big Ben (36)

GB - Aaron Rogers (34/35) [born in december]

WAS - Alex Smith (34)

BAL - Joe Flacco (33)

ATL - Matt Ryan (33)

 

I'm not sure where to start; except that I think Jackson and Allen would be good fits for PIT, LAC, and NE (Josh McDaniels factor).

 

 

New England likes guys that can throw the ball to a spot and it make it there. 

 

They definitely out on these 2.

 

Watch Cardinals for Lamar Jackson IMO. I bet they might trade up to end of first and grab him there. Josh Allen I think will be a 2nd rounder though. 

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13 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

New England likes guys that can throw the ball to a spot and it make it there. 

 

They definitely out on these 2.

 

Watch Cardinals for Lamar Jackson IMO. I bet they might trade up to end of first and grab him there. Josh Allen I think will be a 2nd rounder though. 

 

I'm taking a ton of liberty here. I think NE is a landing place because of the potential that mcdaniels is the next coach. He's the guy who drafted Tebow. Allen and Jackson are better than the Met.

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59 minutes ago, thebrowns said:

 

I'm taking a ton of liberty here. I think NE is a landing place because of the potential that mcdaniels is the next coach. He's the guy who drafted Tebow. Allen and Jackson are better than the Met.

 

He drafted him and didn't see out the season before being fired IIRC. 

 

Just cause he made a mistake doesn't mean he's gonna continue down mistake avenue on his next venture. 

 

But more than that, why would Bill give any draft control to an idiot like Josh McDaniels? I'm sure in the 6th round he might throw him a bone that he can blow the pick on every now and then, but that guy isn't spending Bill's first or 2nd round picks IMO. 

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I can see the Pats taking someone like Luke Falk.  He's super accurate and models himself after Brady.

Actually I read that he's kind of obsessed with copying Brady, so maybe that might be a bad thing. Lol.

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9 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

New England likes guys that can throw the ball to a spot and it make it there. 

 

They definitely out on these 2.

 

Watch Cardinals for Lamar Jackson IMO. I bet they might trade up to end of first and grab him there. Josh Allen I think will be a 2nd rounder though. 

 

Im sorry, but there is ZERO chance Josh Allen is a 2nd rounder. 

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23 minutes ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

I guess we will find out Friday, April 27th (Day 2 of the draft).

 

No, you’ll find out in the first hour or two of the start of the draft. 

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11 minutes ago, petekrum said:

 

No, you’ll find out in the first hour or two of the start of the draft. 

 

I'm listening to Lance Z on the radio right now and he said without a doubt, Josh Allen, will be the 2nd QB drafted in the draft.

 

It looks like I'm probably going to lose this one.

 

I guess will stand on record and say there's a good chance I am wrong about when he's drafted.

 

He's still my 6th best QB in this draft class though.  I will hold onto that until I am proven wrong.

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1 hour ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

I'm listening to Lance Z on the radio right now and he said without a doubt, Josh Allen, will be the 2nd QB drafted in the draft.

 

It looks like I'm probably going to lose this one.

 

I guess will stand on record and say there's a good chance I am wrong about when he's drafted.

 

He's still my 6th best QB in this draft class though.  I will hold onto that until I am proven wrong.

 

Got no problem with that, everyone has different rankings. I have him as my 4th QB right now. I don’t love him and I’d really not be happy if a team I liked drafted him.

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2 hours ago, petekrum said:

 

Got no problem with that, everyone has different rankings. I have him as my 4th QB right now. I don’t love him and I’d really not be happy if a team I liked drafted him.

 

If they drafted him in the 2nd or even better 3rd I'd be okay with it.

 

Top 10?  No, just, no.

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I want to bring up one point when we talk about Allen's completion percentage, decision making.

 

We have seen him, we know he can make all the throws and he sometimes has scattershot accuracy. However, I think his tendency to see pass rushers that do not exist make him throw lower percentage passes than he should.

 

That might not be as much of an issue with a decent O-line.

Edited by AJJones

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1 hour ago, 96mnc said:

 

If they drafted him in the 2nd or even better 3rd I'd be okay with it.

 

Top 10?  No, just, no.

 

Agree, but there’s no chance he’s there in those rounds.

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19 minutes ago, AJJones said:

I want to bring up one point when we talk about Allen's completion percentage, decision making.

 

We have seen him, we know he can make all the throws and he sometimes has scattershot accuracy. However, I think his tendency to see pass rushers that do not exist make him throw lower percentage passes than he should.

 

That might not be as much of an issue with a decent O-line.

 

You are right. Allen's main issue is between the ears. He tends to give up quickly on progressions. It feels like he is more comfortable on the run. That is what worries me; I'd be happier if it was a technique issue. How do you coach someone up to change their instincts? I'm not saying it can't be done; I just know that I still jump when I see the water hose in the grass. Sometimes people just never get past their subconscious. 

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I think the question is, is he Blaine Gabbert? Or does he need a better o-line? We will find out. He looked amazing in shorts.

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5 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

I'm listening to Lance Z on the radio right now and he said without a doubt, Josh Allen, will be the 2nd QB drafted in the draft.

 

It looks like I'm probably going to lose this one.

 

I guess will stand on record and say there's a good chance I am wrong about when he's drafted.

 

He's still my 6th best QB in this draft class though.  I will hold onto that until I am proven wrong.

He SHOULD be a 2nd round pick, but he won't be.  Can you imagine the Jets fans reaction if they take Allen at 7?

Edited by RMJ_12
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2 hours ago, thebrowns said:

 

You are right. Allen's main issue is between the ears. He tends to give up quickly on progressions. It feels like he is more comfortable on the run. That is what worries me; I'd be happier if it was a technique issue. How do you coach someone up to change their instincts? I'm not saying it can't be done; I just know that I still jump when I see the water hose in the grass. Sometimes people just never get past their subconscious. 

 

This. 

 

It's not just the bad mechanics leading to inaccuracy it is the between the ears stuff too.

 

Quick comp - Christian Hackenberg.

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You mean coming out of college?  I thought scouts regarded Hackenberg’s field vision and ability to work through progressions as one of his strengths.

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6 minutes ago, BMcP said:

You mean coming out of college?  I thought scouts regarded Hackenberg’s field vision and ability to work through progressions as one of his strengths.

 

No, he just held the ball too long. It became clear that he was not "reading" anything. Haha.

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On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:12 PM, thebrowns said:

 

You miss read my post/didn't do enough reading of the thread. The argument was that none had been successful with a completion percentage below 58.5. Stafford had a career completion percentage under that and two of the seasons under that. 

 

I called Stafford an outlier and that i never bet on the outlier. Nice slam on the mountain West.  But i didn't say they were the same. Although Stafford is an example of the shall percentage of qbs who can overcome early accuracy issues. 

 

In this class Jackson has a better shot at being Stafford than Allen does. (I'm not saying that he will be) 

 

Allen has a big arm in a little conference. I get it. 

 

Stafford played in the minor leagues of the SEC. 

He did get to face plenty of top defenses at Georgia.  Allen, not so much.

 

Biggest arm in the history of the NFL was John Elway.  You can argue.  I won't care.

John Elway career stats:

62.1 completion rate at Stanford.

56.9% NFL Career.  #92 all time.

 

Big arm, little conference, low completion percentage does not translate well to the big leagues.  Plenty of data points in this thread to back it up.

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