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tonycpsu

Philadelphia Phillies 2018 Outlook

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8 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

Yeah, I think a lot of this was pent-up frustration over the Nola hook in the opener.  Yanking Pivetta in that situation was obviously the correct move, but Kap hasn't done anything to earn any goodwill, and it's not the fans' job to be rational.

Pretty much agree on all accounts. I think it had everything to do with the first couple games and nothing to do with Pivetta. And like I said, that was fair. 

One thing from the article above that I really liked and would be happy with as a fan was this quote: 

 

“Whenever people are unhappy, I'll always ask myself why and if there's anything I can do to adjust accordingly," Kapler said. "I'm gonna work my tail off for these fans. Hopefully, over the course of the season, they will learn to trust my process is strong."

 

I don’t EVER want a manager managing trying to keep the mobs happy. That said, this type of reflection is refreshing and unheard of. Most managers would say some version of “I’m getting paid to manage, they get to complain and be fans.” I’ve heard a lot of that over the years here in Detroit. Love seeing a guy seemingly say he’ll at least be listening and reflecting. 

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2 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Pretty much agree on all accounts. I think it had everything to do with the first couple games and nothing to do with Pivetta. And like I said, that was fair. 

One thing from the article above that I really liked and would be happy with as a fan was this quote: 

 

“Whenever people are unhappy, I'll always ask myself why and if there's anything I can do to adjust accordingly," Kapler said. "I'm gonna work my tail off for these fans. Hopefully, over the course of the season, they will learn to trust my process is strong."

 

I don’t EVER want a manager managing trying to keep the mobs happy. That said, this type of reflection is refreshing and unheard of. Most managers would say some version of “I’m getting paid to manage, they get to complain and be fans.” I’ve heard a lot of that over the years here in Detroit. Love seeing a guy seemingly say he’ll at least be listening and reflecting. 

Interesting,  I'd go the other way here.  Sometimes,  old school gets it right.  I'm not a Philly fan,  but that statement he made would make me nervous.  Fans DON'T  run the team,  and as mentioned above are never rational.  Just go win,  don't spend energy playing to cameras and angry internet people

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5 minutes ago, WahooManiac said:

Interesting,  I'd go the other way here.  Sometimes,  old school gets it right.  I'm not a Philly fan,  but that statement he made would make me nervous.  Fans DON'T  run the team,  and as mentioned above are never rational.  Just go win,  don't spend energy playing to cameras and angry internet people

Like I said, letting the mob rule would be dumb. Old school guys are stubborn. I took his quote as “I’m always willing to listen and learn.” 

Obviously we’re both reading into meaning. 

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1 minute ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Like I said, letting the mob rule would be dumb. Old school guys are stubborn. I took his quote as “I’m always willing to listen and learn.” 

Obviously we’re both reading into meaning. 

That's kind of my point.  I wouldn't want a coach willing to learn,  I'd want one ready to go/ in control.  

 

He's in a position of leadership.  Contrite generals lose wars.  In managers,  it puts your team on a footing of weakness.  This isn't a dad coaching little league here.  Fake it till you make it,  but never let em see you sweat. 

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6 minutes ago, WahooManiac said:

That's kind of my point.  I wouldn't want a coach willing to learn,  I'd want one ready to go/ in control.  

 

He's in a position of leadership.  Contrite generals lose wars.  In managers,  it puts your team on a footing of weakness.  This isn't a dad coaching little league here.  Fake it till you make it,  but never let em see you sweat. 

Well maybe I’ve heard enough Jim Caldwell being a condescending prick to the fans and media as his team kept losing to be impressed with the “fake it like you know everything” types. People should be in a constant state of learning. That’s not a weakness. In fact, it’s a strength. If you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse.

I’m impressed with someone willing to be open to constantly soaking in information and learning. MLB managers or anywhere in life.

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13 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Well maybe I’ve heard enough Jim Caldwell being a condescending prick to the fans and media as his team kept losing to be impressed with the “fake it like you know everything” types. People should be in a constant state of learning. That’s not a weakness. In fact, it’s a strength. If you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse.

I’m impressed with someone willing to be open to constantly soaking in information and learning. MLB managers or anywhere in life.

I don't disagree.  18 year youth coach and independent hitting instructor here.  I just don't think he needs to show it.  Just gives the narrative more life

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They need to trade for Machado and really start cooking with gasoline here.

 

NL is the inferior league this year, why not the Fightin Phils?

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2 hours ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

They need to trade for Machado and really start cooking with gasoline here.

 

NL is the inferior league this year, why not the Fightin Phils?

 

I am saying this out of pure ignorance as I don't know a lot of the advanced metrics or anything, but what makes you say the NL is inferior?  Prior to today's loss putting the Giants at 19-19, all but 4 teams had/have a winning record.  The division leader for the AL Central is 18-18....

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1 minute ago, ToO_BaD said:

 

I am saying this out of pure ignorance as I don't know a lot of the advanced metrics or anything, but what makes you say the NL is inferior?  Prior to today's loss putting the Giants at 19-19, all but 4 teams had/have a winning record.  The division leader for the AL Central is 18-18....

I'm saying that Houston, Boston, NY, and Cleveland seems like it will be a more daunting field than whatever the NL puts together come October.

 

So the Phils getting into the dance doesn't seem as a crazy

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Hope you're right.  Only thing standing in their way are the Braves, this year and going forward the next few. I didn't think they'd have the pitching this year but their young guy have been way better than expected and Flowers return should actually help them a bit. The Phils are probably the more aggressive FA/trade partners with such a low current payroll and their market size.  It should be a very interesting battle over the next few years.

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35 minutes ago, Baur10 said:

Hope you're right.  Only thing standing in their way are the Braves, this year and going forward the next few. I didn't think they'd have the pitching this year but their young guy have been way better than expected and Flowers return should actually help them a bit. The Phils are probably the more aggressive FA/trade partners with such a low current payroll and their market size.  It should be a very interesting battle over the next few years.

They have Andy McPhail in the organization with Baltimore ties..... that's why they went after Arrieta

 

Phillies have been rumored to be more into Machado than Harper.

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11 minutes ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

They have Andy McPhail in the organization with Baltimore ties..... that's why they went after Arrieta

 

Phillies have been rumored to be more into Machado than Harper.

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Just watching some Sixto Sanchez highlights in the MiLB thread and it got me excited all over again. Pivetta, Velasquez, Nola, Sanchez, Ramos, Arano, and Dominguez are all under the age of 25. This pitching staff could be extremely dangerous.

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We have starters. That's it. April and most of May we're fun. But June has arrived and it's really highlighted the fact that offensively there's a lot of holes.

 

They lack a true superstar player. Not even one. Rhys has the chance to be good but I don't think he'll ever reach elite. Kingery looks so horrendous as far as approach is concerned.

 

Williams, Altherr, Franco who really knows with them. All 3 lack the ability to have consistent at bats. 

 

And the worst part of the offensive woes is that there really isn't anyone in their system that they're waiting on. 

 

Don't even get me started on that bullpen. Adam Morgan should be booted from the league for giving up a game winning GS to Jason Heyward tonight.

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Phillies are in great shape. You have money and you’ll spend it. You’ll probably get Machado or Harper and Trout will find his way there too when his contract expires. I’m very confident in that prediction Trout wants to be there.

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51 minutes ago, High&Inside said:

We have starters. That's it. April and most of May we're fun. But June has arrived and it's really highlighted the fact that offensively there's a lot of holes.

 

They lack a true superstar player. Not even one. Rhys has the chance to be good but I don't think he'll ever reach elite. Kingery looks so horrendous as far as approach is concerned.

 

Williams, Altherr, Franco who really knows with them. All 3 lack the ability to have consistent at bats. 

 

And the worst part of the offensive woes is that there really isn't anyone in their system that they're waiting on. 

 

Don't even get me started on that bullpen. Adam Morgan should be booted from the league for giving up a game winning GS to Jason Heyward tonight.

That's for sure, most baseball services declared Bohm the highest rated position player in the system with the Phils before even picking up a bat. Moniak looks like a collasal bust after they passed over Senzel.

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It would be a good landing spot for Machado and Manny is playing like he wants to escape Baltimore sooner than later.  And Philly has 4 or 5 really decent arms in their minor leagues as well and Baltimore would beg for any of them.  As for hitters, and they can pawn off JP Crawford on the O's at the same time since Manny WANTS WANTS WANTS to play SS and not 3B.

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Posted (edited)

Why would the Phillies give prospect ammo for machado now in a growth year where they can’t win anything rather than just sign him in November and keep the prospects? Honest question from a Phillies fan. A compensatory free agent draft pick going to Baltimore should be worth far less than whatever it would take to get him now. 

Edited by cyberer

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20 minutes ago, cyberer said:

Why would the Phillies give prospect ammo for machado now in a growth year where they can’t win anything rather than just sign him in November and keep the prospects? Honest question from a Phillies fan. A compensatory free agent draft pick going to Baltimore should be worth far less than whatever it would take to get him now. 

 

Why can't they win anything?  Make the playoffs with a rotation centering around Nola/Arrieta and Machado in the center of the lineup and they have a decent shot to go far in the playoffs IMO.  

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The early season meltdown by fans was fun. “Over his head.” Phillies should admit they made a mistake” after one game. 

51-40. 1st place.

 

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This Phillies team has a 2.5 game lead on 1st place. Everyone on the squad is a young unknown. Who would have thought the likes of Aaron Nola, Rhys Hoskins, and Maikel Franco would be playing this good? Gabe Kapler must be a wizard.

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Posted (edited)

Front office dropping the ball this trade season, (possibly) Gallo and asdrubal aren’t enough having missed out on Britton, machado, happ, hamels. 

 

Unless they end up getting archer or something nuts, they simply repeated the nats/Mets mistake of yesteryear and assumed they’d be relevant for years rather than seizing lightning in a bottle when you have it right in front of you. Sad as a philly fan. Especially having seen the eagles go balls out in the same situation (I.e. adding ajayi mid season). The birds were also “a year early,” and that worked out okay.

 

It might be hard to explain in 5 years foregoing a chance at a World Series bc you had to hold onto sixto effing Sanchez...

Edited by cyberer

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1 hour ago, cyberer said:

Front office dropping the ball this trade season, (possibly) Gallo and asdrubal aren’t enough having missed out on Britton, machado, happ, hamels. 

 

Unless they end up getting archer or something nuts, they simply repeated the nats/Mets mistake of yesteryear and assumed they’d be relevant for years rather than seizing lightning in a bottle when you have it right in front of you. Sad as a philly fan. Especially having seen the eagles go balls out in the same situation (I.e. adding ajayi mid season). The birds were also “a year early,” and that worked out okay.

 

It might be hard to explain in 5 years foregoing a chance at a World Series bc you had to hold onto sixto effing Sanchez...

 

Eh the counter argument is that itd also be pretty hard to explain trading if Sixto turns into a stud, they don't win it all this year, and they get Machado next year anyway (which is a strong possibility).  I'm a Philly fan too and I'm prefectly OK with them sitting things out. Elite SP prospects are so hot or miss but when they got they're complete game changers for a franchise, they should be taken lightly. The Phillies have a young team and seemingly a good manager, but overall I think they're playing a bit above their talent level. I get your sentiment but with the farm system and cap space they have though I think they could be a serious long term contender. 

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7 minutes ago, Baur10 said:

 

Eh the counter argument is that itd also be pretty hard to explain trading if Sixto turns into a stud, they don't win it all this year, and they get Machado next year anyway (which is a strong possibility).  I'm a Philly fan too and I'm prefectly OK with them sitting things out. Elite SP prospects are so hot or miss but when they got they're complete game changers for a franchise, they should be taken lightly. The Phillies have a young team and seemingly a good manager, but overall I think they're playing a bit above their talent level. I get your sentiment but with the farm system and cap space they have though I think they could be a serious long term contender. 

 

Exactly.  And it’s one thing to be excited as the team has performed really well this season and the NL is pretty open, but Machado is not the difference of Philly winning a World Series this year. 

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