Geaux Saints

Corey Clement 2018 Outlook

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8 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

Based on...? Would you like to elaborate on your spicy hot take? 

 

Looks like this is the default response from Smallwood backers after last night's game: "Yeah Smallwood sucked... but Clement wasn't very good either! Doesn't matter, Shady's coming."

 

I thought the same thing with the Patriots last year with Burkhead, Lewis and White....No workhorse RB there either.

 

The made it work pretty well though.

 

I think the Eagles could probably do something similar with the guys they have and/or by adding a free agent like T West to help get them by.

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7 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

and in what world does Pederson EVER roll with one workhorse back? 

 

Where in my post do you infer that I said anything about Clement being a one workhorse back?????

 

I do think its crazy for people to watch last nights game and take away major breakthroughs in the comparison between Clement and Smallwood in terms of how the Eagles will use them moving forward. It was obvious Clement was going to be on the lesser side of the timeshare bc of the injury / pitch count reports pre game.

 

So the takeaways I pointed out had nothing to do with the amount of snaps he played rather how the Eagles utilized him on limited snaps and how he looked when he had the ball in his hands.  If the Eagles know they are only going to have limited CC plays, then logic tells you that they will save those plays for when they feel they need him the most.  That was first half Red Zone packages and clock killing at the very end.  Those are important RB roles in an offense and to me tells me that the RB coaches and the HC have trust in Clement to perform in those roles.

 

If they had used his limited snaps to randomly sprinkle him between the 20s and showed no commitment to him in important areas of the field or objectives then I wouldn't be as pleased with his usage as I was last night watching.  They basically used Smallwood as a JAG last night eating up plays between the 20s.  Clement DID however start the second half and they reversed the roles where Smallwood was used a in the Red Zone during the second half but what is unclear about that is whether Clement was starting to get near the snap count # they had in mind for him and the game was well out of hand.  I believe they were mostly concerned about his game conditioning as he hadnt played since Week 3 and they wanted to use him throughout the game to test his wind.  He came out strong in the second half starting and he finished the game strong with some nice clock killing runs showing he's ready to take on more action. 

Edited by Zak0221
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2 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

 

Where in my post do you infer that I said anything about Clement being a one workhorse back?????

 

I do think its crazy for people to watch last nights game and take away major breakthroughs in the comparison between Clement and Smallwood in terms of how the Eagles will use them moving forward. It was obvious Clement was going to be on the lesser side of the timeshare bc of the injury / pitch count reports pre game.

 

So the takeaways I pointed out had nothing to do with the amount of snaps he played rather how the Eagles utilized him on limited snaps and how he looked when he had the ball in his hands.  If the Eagles know they are only going to have limited CC plays, then logic tells you that they will save those plays for when they feel they need him the most.  That was first half Red Zone packages and clock killing at the very end.  Those are important RB roles in an offense and to me tells me that the RB coaches and the HC have trust in Clement to perform in those roles.

It’s a theory-  but a lot of of evidence points to this remaining a hard to predict timeshare.   Ajayi is far more talented than either of these also-rans and he hasn’t ever dominated this backfield.  It’s game specific every week.   And you’re taking a snapshot from usage ONE GAME where they blew out the opposition by halftime.   

 

Ive thought Clement was the better back all season but he’s always just been one of the crew.    Worth rostering over Smallwood but that’s about it right now. 

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Are people really using snap counts from last night to extrapolate who is the back to own? They LITERALLY said at the top of the broadcast Clement is on a pitch count due to the injury. Smallwood wasn't that impressive outside a couple of runs and Clement was in on most if not all of the redzone drives. I think they could both offer some flex or RB2 appeal going forward but a healthy Clement is going to lead the RBBC most weeks and will have the TD upside. Do I think Clement is super talented? No, but he will have 15-20 touches per game and is a way better receiving back than Smallwood. Probably good for 10+ PPG in half PPR as a floor; 10 carries for 40 yards, 5 receptions for 50 type player with decent TD chance. 

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5 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

It’s a theory-  but a lot of of evidence points to this remaining a hard to predict timeshare.   Ajayi is far more talented than either of these also-rans and he hasn’t ever dominated this backfield.  It’s game specific every week.   And you’re taking a snapshot from usage ONE GAME where they blew out the opposition by halftime.   

 

Ive thought Clement was the better back all season but he’s always just been one of the crew.    Worth rostering over Smallwood but that’s about it right now. 

 

You can predict some of it by watching the games.  Eagles prefer Clement in Red Zone and he is their preferred pass catcher ( 3 targets v 1 on half the snaps ).

 

Clement was also their preferred clock killing RB as he came out to ice the game away in the 4th quarter with 6 min left and picked up 2 first downs.  

 

Smallwood will probably get plenty of run between the 20s here and there but especially after fumbling, Clement further pushed himself as the front of this RBBC as he wildly outplayed Smallwood on half the touches and snaps. 

Edited by Zak0221

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1 minute ago, Zak0221 said:

 

Where in my post do you infer that I said anything about Clement being a one workhorse back?????

 

I think it is outrageous for people to watch last nights game and take away major breakthroughs in the comparison between Clement and Smallwood when it was obvious Clement was going to be on the lesser side of the timeshare bc of the injury / pitch count reports pre game.

 

So the takeaways I pointed out had nothing to do with the amount of snaps he played rather how the Eagles utilized him on limited snaps and how he looked when he had the ball in his hands.  If the Eagles know they are only going to have limited CC plays, then logic tells you that they will save those plays for when they feel they need him the most.  That was first half Red Zone packages and clock killing at the very end.  Those are important RB roles in an offense and to me tells me that the RB coaches and the HC have trust in Clement to perform in those roles.

 

I dont disagree with what you say entirely but other than Erin Andrews I dont recall reading a ton on a snap count (its not baseball I hate that talking heads call it a "pitch count") and his overall usage did not lend itself to that type of arrangement, at least in my viewing of the game.

 

The clock killing argument with a 21 point lead doesnt necessitate the preferred running back in an offense, if anything in a 21 point lead game in hand I would have expected a guy like Adams to get those carries, especially if Clement was on a pitch count and you wanted to avoid unneeded wear and tear on a guy coming off injury. Were the game a close affair and they needed to grind and conserve Id agree going with a preferred guy that you can trust, but that was a blow out vs a totally inept offense.  

 

I own both guys across several leagues and I think this becomes a very difficult thing to predict week to week. Id much prefer one to take over and I would say I think Clement has more talent but it remains to be seen if they give either one a big share. Even when both have been healthy earlier in year with Ajayi out things were getting split up quite a bit. 

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25 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

Based on...? Would you like to elaborate on your spicy hot take? 

 

Looks like this is the default response from Smallwood backers after last night's game: "Yeah Smallwood sucked... but Clement wasn't very good either! Doesn't matter, Shady's coming."

 

I don't even own Smallwood. I have Clement. SMH

 

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4 minutes ago, dzemens said:

 

I dont disagree with what you say entirely but other than Erin Andrews I dont recall reading a ton on a snap count (its not baseball I hate that talking heads call it a "pitch count") and his overall usage did not lend itself to that type of arrangement, at least in my viewing of the game.

 

The clock killing argument with a 21 point lead doesnt necessitate the preferred running back in an offense, if anything in a 21 point lead game in hand I would have expected a guy like Adams to get those carries, especially if Clement was on a pitch count and you wanted to avoid unneeded wear and tear on a guy coming off injury. Were the game a close affair and they needed to grind and conserve Id agree going with a preferred guy that you can trust, but that was a blow out vs a totally inept offense.  

 

I own both guys across several leagues and I think this becomes a very difficult thing to predict week to week. Id much prefer one to take over and I would say I think Clement has more talent but it remains to be seen if they give either one a big share. Even when both have been healthy earlier in year with Ajayi out things were getting split up quite a bit. 

 

The snap count was apparently more about his game conditioning ( hadnt played since week 3 ) not his injury so my take on why he was in there killing the clock in the 4th quarter was two fold:

 

1.  Smallwood had fumbled just two drives prior 

2.  Clement hadn't touched the ball in the 4th quarter so the coaches wanted to see him finish the game strong aka his game conditioning 

 

It's very easy to understand what went on last night if you watched how they rotated the backs, it was basically all I paid attention to bc the game was so awful outside of Barkley flashing greatness.  

Edited by Zak0221

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2 minutes ago, dzemens said:

 

I dont disagree with what you say entirely but other than Erin Andrews I dont recall reading a ton on a snap count (its not baseball I hate that talking heads call it a "pitch count") and his overall usage did not lend itself to that type of arrangement, at least in my viewing of the game.

 

The clock killing argument with a 21 point lead doesnt necessitate the preferred running back in an offense, if anything in a 21 point lead game in hand I would have expected a guy like Adams to get those carries, especially if Clement was on a pitch count and you wanted to avoid unneeded wear and tear on a guy coming off injury. Were the game a close affair and they needed to grind and conserve Id agree going with a preferred guy that you can trust, but that was a blow out vs a totally inept offense.  

 

I own both guys across several leagues and I think this becomes a very difficult thing to predict week to week. Id much prefer one to take over and I would say I think Clement has more talent but it remains to be seen if they give either one a big share. Even when both have been healthy earlier in year with Ajayi out things were getting split up quite a bit. 

RE: Clement Snap count. EA was quoting Dougie P at the top of the broadcast. To me it was pretty obvious they were limiting Clement to begin with then after he got that TD they started playing him a lot more. So it could have been precautionary and as the game progressed it was clear to the staff the Clement was good to go. The eye test tells me Clement is the back to own long term but I agree that it will still be a split of some kind.

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Just now, Zak0221 said:

 

The snap count was apparently more about his game conditioning not his injury so my take on why he was in there killing the clock in the 4th quarter was two fold:

 

1.  Smallwood had fumbled just two drives prior 

2.  Clement hadn't touched the ball in the 4th quarter so the coaches wanted to see him finish the game strong aka his game conditioning 

 

It's very easy to understand what went on last night if you watched how they rotated the backs, it was basically all I paid attention to bc the game was so awful outside of Barkley flashing greatness.  

 

No Zak-  you’ve decided to put a lot of stock into  one game with unusual circumstances.  Prefer to look at Pedersons history moreso than any one game.   

 

  I think what @RoboFroogs said is accurate.    

Clement is the leader of this RBBC.   If you can get 12-15 touches a game with GL you’re hoping for rb2 upside.  

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1 minute ago, Impreza178 said:

 

No Zak-  you’ve decided to put a lot of stock into  one game with unusual circumstances.  Prefer to look at Pedersons history moreso than any one game.   

 

  I think what @RoboFroogs said is accurate.    

Clement is the leader of this RBBC.   If you can get 12-15 touches a game with GL you’re hoping for rb2 upside.  

 

lol thats exactly my take on Clement too, you are just reading something in my posts that I am not writing but its all good. 

 

My takeaway was always this is a RBBC with Clement on the bigger share of it due to pass catching and goal line roles.  Last night's limited snap action confirmed this when thats exactly how they used him despite basically only being avail for those plays. 

Edited by Zak0221

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7 minutes ago, Pooskay said:

I don't even own Smallwood. I have Clement. SMH

 

I don't care who you own. You still haven't given a single reason why either of these guys couldn't carry the bulk of the load, you've just made the same statements without any explanation, qualification, etc. See:

 

37 minutes ago, Pooskay said:

Clement and Smallwood both are not capable of being reliable workhorse RB's for PHI.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 10:30 AM, Pooskay said:

Clement is not a lead back

 

On 10/9/2018 at 11:11 AM, Pooskay said:

There's something missing from Clement's game that's not allowing him to be a workhorse.

 

So either explain yourself, or stop spewing lazy analysis.

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Just now, smeeze said:

 

I don't care who you own. You still haven't given a single reason why either of these guys couldn't carry the bulk of the load, you've just made the same statements without any explanation, qualification, etc. See:

 

 

 

 

So either explain yourself, or stop spewing lazy analysis.

 

because their coach is Doug Pederson

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Just now, lolcopter said:

 

because their coach is Doug Pederson

 

Are you dismissing Sony Michel because his HC is Bill Belichek?

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2 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

I don't care who you own. You still haven't given a single reason why either of these guys couldn't carry the bulk of the load, you've just made the same statements without any explanation, qualification, etc. See:

 

 

 

 

So either explain yourself, or stop spewing lazy analysis.

 

Whoa whoa whoa.....just chill.

 

Acceptance is the first step.

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1 minute ago, Zak0221 said:

 

lol thats exactly my take on Clement too, you are just reading something in my posts that I am not writing but its all good. 

 

All good here man.  

Its always been the expectation for these numbers from the eagles lead committee back.  

 

Breaking down one game to fit that narrrative doesn’t change what Pederson does every week.     Hope he pans out in this role. 

 

 

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Just now, smeeze said:

 

Are you dismissing Sony Michel because his HC is Bill Belichek?

 

are you comparing two completely different scenarios, offenses, and coaches?

 

I'd take Michel + White over the Eagles crew every single time. Same with Linsday + Freeman and a multitude of other RBBCs

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1 minute ago, Pooskay said:

 

Whoa whoa whoa.....just chill.

 

Acceptance is the first step.

 

 

Keep deflecting, lol. If you can't handle being called out, why are you even posting?

 

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5 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

 

lol thats exactly my take on Clement too, you are just reading something in my posts that I am not writing but its all good. 

 

My takeaway was always this is a RBBC with Clement on the bigger share of it due to pass catching and goal line roles.  Last night's limited snap action confirmed this when thats exactly how they used him despite basically only being avail for those plays. 

 

 

I agree with him being the bigger share of the RBBC for sure, hope it solidifies that way actually.

 

The main thing I take issue with is the notion that clock killing is vitally important up 21 against an offense that cant score so much so to use a preferred back on a snap count. That part is far more about full body of my knowledge of the game than it is this one instance. 

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No regrets over benching him last night.  What we saw was great.  Out-produced his competition on less snaps, and he's clearly the red zone preference.

 

All systems go (until they make a trade)

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3 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

 

Keep deflecting, lol. If you can't handle being called out, why are you even posting?

 

 

*sigh*

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2 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

 

are you comparing two completely different scenarios, offenses, and coaches?

 

I'd take Michel + White over the Eagles crew every single time. Same with Linsday + Freeman and a multitude of other RBBCs

 

I'm not trying to make any 1v1 comparisons, no. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements. The knock on Patriots RBs was that "because their coach is" Bill Belichek... until that proved to no longer be the case. If you think there's no way there's going to be reliable fantasy value at RB on a Doug Pederson-led offense, that's fine. My money's on CC.

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1 minute ago, JJ1223 said:

No regrets over benching him last night.  What we saw was great.  Out-produced his competition on less snaps, and he's clearly the red zone preference.

 

All systems go (until they make a trade)

 

I think theyd prefer to trade for back end defensive help before an RB. Its not an ideal situation but they can make that RBBC work with what they have. Depending on Peters they might be looking to acquire an OL at some point too. He looked rough last night which isnt to be unexpected at 36 coming off injury but at some point father time catches us all. 

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2 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

I'm not trying to make any 1v1 comparisons, no. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements. The knock on Patriots RBs was that "because their coach is" Bill Belichek... until that proved to no longer be the case. If you think there's no way there's going to be reliable fantasy value at RB on a Doug Pederson-led offense, that's fine. My money's on CC.

 

that's all well and good but not sure why you have to bite anyone's head off who calls this an ugly RBBC, which is EXACTLY WHAT IT IS

Edited by lolcopter

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1 minute ago, Pooskay said:

 

*sigh*

You have said absolutely nothing of substance in here.  Please go -------------->

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