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Cooper Kupp 2018 Outlook

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7 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Totally different type of players.  Colston is huge, and in his prime was one of the most dangerous red zone presences in the entire league.

 

Physical comparison wasn't my point at all. 

 

I'm talking only about usage. 

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3 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

Physical comparison wasn't my point at all. 

 

I'm talking only about usage. 

Physical comparison is highly relevant to usage.  Kupp will never be in the ballpark in terms of Colston's size and strength, so is quite unlikely to become a red zone beast like Colston was.

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6 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Physical comparison is highly relevant to usage.  Kupp will never be in the ballpark in terms of Colston's size and strength, so is quite unlikely to become a red zone beast like Colston was.

 

The stats don't bear this out. Kupp led the NFL in targets between the 20-10 and tied for 21st in targets inside the ten with eight targets. For context, AJ Green had eight, and A Brown, Hopkins, Dez, Michael Thomas had ten.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/redzone-receiving.htm

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2 minutes ago, rschroeder1 said:

 

The stats don't bear this out. Kupp led the NFL in targets between the 20-10 and tied for 21st in targets inside the ten with eight targets. For context, AJ Green had eight, and A Brown, Hopkins, Dez, Michael Thomas had ten.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/redzone-receiving.htm

A team could target Jaquizz Rodgers 35 times in the red zone if they wanted, but that would not make him a red zone beast.

 

Kupp is very solid in the red zone.  But he's no Marques Colston.

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2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

A team could target Jaquizz Rodgers 35 times in the red zone if they wanted, but that would not make him a red zone beast.

 

Kupp is very solid in the red zone.  But he's no Marques Colston.

That's a specious argument. A player doesn't just get red zone targets by chance. They get red zone targets because they're good in the redzone. 

 

I told everyone going into last season that Kupp's 100000 college TDs should not be ignored, regardless of the level of competition he faced. He will have double digit TD seasons, quite possibly as soon as this year. 

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30 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

That's a specious argument. A player doesn't just get red zone targets by chance. They get red zone targets because they're good in the redzone. 

 

I told everyone going into last season that Kupp's 100000 college TDs should not be ignored, regardless of the level of competition he faced. He will have double digit TD seasons, quite possibly as soon as this year. 

You might be correct.  I am bullish on Kupp, too.  But even if you are, Kupp is never going to be Marques Colston.  Kupp is not that type of player.

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21 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

You might be correct.  I am bullish on Kupp, too.  But even if you are, Kupp is never going to be Marques Colston.  Kupp is not that type of player.

More of an Anquan Boldin or maybe even Doug Baldwin, I guess. Not every player has a perfect comp though. 

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Closer, but still off the mark.  Baldwin is far more explosive imo.  Even late-career Boldin was far stronger than Kupp, with better hands.

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8 minutes ago, ajs723 said:

More of an Anquan Boldin or maybe even Doug Baldwin, I guess. Not every player has a perfect comp though. 

 

Either of those work, too.  Not as much Baldwin as he's a bigger deep threat. 

 

But they are all (including Colston) slot receivers that are their Qbs preferred red zone passing option.

 

Colston between ages 26 and 30 was between 107 and 131 targets and 5 and 10 tds (average of 7.8).

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So if Cooks become a dynamic field stretcher and defenses focused on stopping Gurley, does Cooper become the next Thielen-lite type?

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17 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

So if Cooks become a dynamic field stretcher and defenses focused on stopping Gurley, does Cooper become the next Thielen-lite type?

 

Problem is now he has Cooks and Woods in his way.  I also expect the tight-ends, especially Everett, to take a step forward this year.  Kupp's value is hurting now, I think.

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18 minutes ago, Bastardo! said:

 

Problem is now he has Cooks and Woods in his way.  I also expect the tight-ends, especially Everett, to take a step forward this year.  Kupp's value is hurting now, I think.

Good chain mover, blocker and teammate irl.  Probably not so hot as a fantasy player.

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On 06/04/2018 at 1:02 AM, Bastardo! said:

 

Problem is now he has Cooks and Woods in his way.  I also expect the tight-ends, especially Everett, to take a step forward this year.  Kupp's value is hurting now, I think.

 

Woods is the guy being overdrafted I think with the acquisition of Cooks. 

 

Kupp is going to provide solid WR2 PPR value this year. He had a strong first year as a rookie on a team that struggled in the first part of the season, but if the back end was anything to go by I think last year was his floor. 

 

 

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I might try to buy Kupp on the cheapish following the Cooks trade; I agree that it doesn’t touch his value/targetshare. 

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11 hours ago, fakespike said:

I might try to buy Kupp on the cheapish following the Cooks trade; I agree that it doesn’t touch his value/targetshare. 

 

Hoping you are right-  I just traded for him for cheap in dynasty.    He does have an important role in the McVay offense....but a lot of mouths to feed and likely some adjustments coming.    

 

TBD but I love the idea of getting him cheap.  

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1 minute ago, Impreza178 said:

 

Hoping you are right-  I just traded for him for cheap in dynasty.    He does have an important role in the McVay offense....but a lot of mouths to feed and likely some adjustments coming.    

 

TBD but I love the idea of getting him cheap.  

 

Regardless of Cooks, getting Kupp cheap in dynasty is great for the long haul. If anything, the Cooks acquisition helps to lower Kupp’s price, seems a dynasty “buy” in my book.

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4 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

Hoping you are right-  I just traded for him for cheap in dynasty.    He does have an important role in the McVay offense....but a lot of mouths to feed and likely some adjustments coming.    

 

TBD but I love the idea of getting him cheap.  

 

The adjustment is if Goff makes the next step in development,  improves on presnap reads and can punish defenses with  his arm.

 

There is this serious misconception that Goff was not a good or he was a subpar QB last season.  He ran that offense very well within Mcvays scheme considering where he started in year 1. What you didnt see was highlight QB heroic plays in the playoffs that got everyone drooling with big bombs, but you know the rams did have one of the top scoring offenses in the league last season and every single play was not a handoff to Gurley.

i'm excited to see him make the jump this season

 

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1 hour ago, dashoe said:

 

The adjustment is if Goff makes the next step in development,  improves on presnap reads and can punish defenses with  his arm.

 

There is this serious misconception that Goff was not a good or he was a subpar QB last season.  He ran that offense very well within Mcvays scheme considering where he started in year 1. What you didnt see was highlight QB heroic plays in the playoffs that got everyone drooling with big bombs, but you know the rams did have one of the top scoring offenses in the league last season and every single play was not a handoff to Gurley.

i'm excited to see him make the jump this season

 

McVay is the one making the pre snap reads though 

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1 hour ago, fakespike said:

McVay is the one making the pre snap reads though 



So?

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On 4/7/2018 at 3:42 PM, ponza88 said:

So?

 

People are going to use whatever mental gymnastics they can to convince themselves that Goff still sucks because it fits their preconceived notions of him.

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On 4/7/2018 at 10:55 AM, fakespike said:

McVay is the one making the pre snap reads though 

A brilliant coordinator is such a benefit to the development of A young qb.    It’s not a knock against Goff.  

 

Look at Brady-  McDaniels

Manning had Tom Moore 

Warner had Mike Martz 

and so on...

 

takes some of the pressure off until the qb is mentally ready.  

 

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16 hours ago, Impreza178 said:

A brilliant coordinator is such a benefit to the development of A young qb.    It’s not a knock against Goff.  

 

Look at Brady-  McDaniels

Manning had Tom Moore 

Warner had Mike Martz 

and so on...

 

takes some of the pressure off until the qb is mentally ready.  

 

 

Not the best examples...Brady had already won 2 SB MVPs before McDaniels ever coached on offense. 

 

Peyton didn't become a superstar until Jim Caldwell arrived after the 2001 season.

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Seems like Cooks and Woods will be the main guys.  And of course healthy doses of Gurley.  Kupp may be waiver wire fodder in standard and bye-week fill-in in full point ppr.

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On 3/17/2018 at 11:33 AM, SharkSwimmer said:

You might be correct.  I am bullish on Kupp, too.  But even if you are, Kupp is never going to be Marques Colston.  Kupp is not that type of player.

You really have a thing for Marques Colston 

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3 hours ago, mmcc1029 said:

You really have a thing for Marques Colston 

I don't think it is necessary to "have a thing" for Marques Colston to make these arguments.  For a stretch of his career, Colston was one of the most dominant red zone forces in the entire NFL.  Kupp is a completely different type of player.  

 

Would it be necessary to "have a thing" for Jerry Rice to say Wayne Chrebet was a good solid NFL receiver, but he was no Jerry Rice?

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