Geaux Saints

Jamaal Williams 2018 Outlook

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Anyone have the RZ or inside the 5 yard snap count on the GB RB's? At this point that is the only stat that will matter for the GB RB's.

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I had to drop him. I have no idea how this backfield shakes out. It's seems McCarthy loves to let a RB get a full series before subbing and the best runner of the week could just be the guy who played during the best series. 

 

Still think he has talent, but the available opportunities just seems to be such a small slice of the pie. No idea. 

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13 minutes ago, TTo34 said:

 

Looks like Jamaal is still the top dog.  Packers fans are adopting the nickname Jamaal “Jonathan Ogden” Williams for him:

 

 

 

This sounds like something straight out of The Onion.

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17 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

Your first problem was going on reddit for fantasy coverage. 

Your second problem is assuming the snap counts mean anything. Packers coaches said they were going to ease Jones back into the offense. 

Your third problem is thinking any of these 3 have fantasy relevance until one of them takes some sort of lead roll. Jones is going to get even more and soon we are gonna be looking st a 35/35/30 share (most likely), at which point you need to guess who gets the receiving or rushing touchdown. 

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I mean that;

Just now, Corleone said:

titanic-11(1).jpg

I mean that's a bit overboard. Most people got him for nothing.

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In 10-15 years from now, when I reminisce about the 2018 season, the first thing that will come to mind is the pass-blocking prowess of Jamaal Williams.  Patrick Mahomes could set the all-time TD record this season, and it would still rank 2nd.

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23 minutes ago, Tommy Lee Jones said:

In 10-15 years from now, when I reminisce about the 2018 season, the first thing that will come to mind is the pass-blocking prowess of Jamaal Williams.  Patrick Mahomes could set the all-time TD record this season, and it would still rank 2nd.

 

His pass-blocking will be second for me. The first thing will be these ridiculous roughing the passer penalties. 

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The Rodgers injury killed him.  They need him to block.  If Rodger's was healthy, then he'd get much more space on quick dumps etc. 

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8 minutes ago, Magoo said:

The Rodgers injury killed him.  They need him to block.  If Rodger's was healthy, then he'd get much more space on quick dumps etc. 

That's actually a really solid point. Pass catching is the piece missing for Williams. If he was catching 3-5 passes a game like he's clearly capable of, this thread would sound much different. 

Edited by ajs723

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Who is holding?

I actually have both J. Williams and A. Jones. Would like to keep both, but can't. Would like to have the entire backfield tied to A. Rodgers, but now thinking I need to push my chips towards A. Jones.

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I dropped him yesterday. In my honest opinion I don't think anyone of those RBs are worth anything. He couldn't do anything with just Ty playing. Now Jones is in the mix. If I owned any of the 3 I would most likely drop them for up and coming players.  Your basically waiting for an injury to happen to someone and even then the packers will use 2 RBs. Waste of roster space.

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On 9/26/2018 at 11:04 AM, ohio#1eaglesfan said:

Drop city. I wanted to believe, but he did nothing while Aaron Jones was suspended. 

 

pretty sure no one was projecting great numbers for those matchups.  right now they are in open competition and flushing out hte offense, which would have been done the first few weeks but because of the suspension it was delayed till now

 

8 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

Who is holding?

I actually have both J. Williams and A. Jones. Would like to keep both, but can't. Would like to have the entire backfield tied to A. Rodgers, but now thinking I need to push my chips towards A. Jones.

 

holding and waiting, the one who emerges will be valuable and worth the wait

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8 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

Who is holding?

I actually have both J. Williams and A. Jones. Would like to keep both, but can't. Would like to have the entire backfield tied to A. Rodgers, but now thinking I need to push my chips towards A. Jones.

I've never had much confidence in GB's RBs TBH because there is always something going on. Either Rodgers looks for receivers at the goal line, they do funny stuff with full backs, or they simply have an RBBC headache happening. 

 

I'm holding for now because of the scarcity of any other RBs in one of my deep leagues. Otherwise, I'd drop him. Unless someone clearly pulls away or there is an injury to Jones or Williams, I don't see the situation resolving itself any time soon. 

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32 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

Who is holding?

I actually have both J. Williams and A. Jones. Would like to keep both, but can't. Would like to have the entire backfield tied to A. Rodgers, but now thinking I need to push my chips towards A. Jones.

 

I had both... dropped Williams this week to pick up Ridley off the waivers. I didn't like dropping him, but have to think that Jones has the most upside. Could be an even split where neither is a huge star, but in an even split Jones has more explosiveness and should score more points. In Jones' first game back where typically a player would be on a "pitch count" he had 1 more carry than Williams and the Packers were playing from behind. Williams is a talented pass blocker no doubt and he will not be going away, but that's just what he is and we don't score points for blocking in FF, it's hard for me to see Williams being more valuable from a FF perspective unless an injury to Jones occurs.

Edited by trolltoll

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Didnt want to drop him but like the poster above, I had the opportunity to pickup Ridley and he was the odd one out. I feel like someone is gonna have to get hurt to be able to use one of the other one's confidently.

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On 9/4/2018 at 10:15 PM, danmam said:

Packers fan here -- much of my Packers prognostication turns out to be wrong (or, at least, if correct, it takes some time to reveal it as such), but I think the threat of Aaron Jones making Jamaal Williams unstartable or at best a flex play is misguided. 

 

I'll try to keep this short: training camp is chock-full of coachspeak that means little to nothing. Mike McCarthy is not immune to this, but he is among the coaches who is least likely to heap praise on an undeserving player, and he'll even occasionally call out underperformers through the media. Aaron Rodgers fits this mold as well: when there's someone he sees performing at a high level, he lets the media know; when he sees players underperforming, he also (usually subtly) lets the media know as well. 

 

Brief examples: following Davante Adams' rookie year (mostly uneventful outside of a few big games late in the year as he spent the season as the #3 WR behind Jordy and Cobb), McCarthy called Adams the "MVP...[of the offseason]" and, from the linked article:

 

Of course, in 2015 Jordy Nelson tore his ACL in the preseason and the Adams hype-train took off, only to be derailed by a Week 1 ankle injury that hounded him all year, particularly brutal for a WR whose defining quality is his elite release skills from the LOS. He played at well less than 100% (limping off the field not uncommonly to get re-taped up), his ability to create separation suffered, he'd be inhuman if his confidence didn't waver, which directly or indirectly resulted in a lot of dropped passes, and many Packers fans and probably a good deal of analysts as well were ready to write him off as a bust already without taking these factors into account. Well, healthy Davante has had no problems with drops and has delivered on every ounce of promise, albeit more than a year later than hoped, that Rodgers and McCarthy saw in him. 

 

The only other "offseason MVP" McCarthy has publicly declared was DT Kenny Clark following his rookie season in 2016. Clark went on to finish 2017 as a top-10 DT (based on PFF) and one of five interior DL to finish top-21 in both run-stopping and pass-rushing (per PFF again). 

 

[Sidebar: I'm sure there are some quotes someone can dig up about McCarthy complimenting Brett Hundley and we can see how that turned out, though I personally don't believe we've heard the last of Hundley as a productive NFL QB...no doubt he performed worse than the Packers' coaching staff and I expected him to, and had more downs than ups (needing OT to beat the Browns and getting shut out by the Ravens and Vikings to name a few) but also showed some undeniable flashes (nearly beating the Steelers, showing the ability to perform in the clutch with his game-winning pass in OT against (sigh) the Browns, to name a couple) -- in short, considering some of the defenses he faced (7 of his 10 games where he got appreciable playing time were against top-10 defenses), an uneven performance like what he displayed in his first extended time as a starter isn't a death knell for his career; ask Goff, Peyton Manning, Marino, and many other. OK that was too long of a sidebar -- Hundley will be back, is my point, and it just might be as a starter somewhere.]

 

The offseason has a lot of coachspeak, of course. And it's a lot more productive to listen to a coach speaking negatively about a player than it is to hear them say "best shape of their life" and other coaching platitudes.

 

With that said, Mike McCarthy (and Aaron Rodgers) are generally much less susceptible to "coachspeak" or complimenting the play/development of players who are undeserving of it (e.g. Rodgers basically throwing shade at the three WRs the Packers drafted with how glowingly he complimented Jake Kumerow (and how he flat out mentioned the rookie WRs need to look at Kumerow to see how they need to perform in practice if they want to gain his trust, without which they will not succeed in the NFL). 

 

Back to coachspeak: you'll be hard-pressed to find a player McCarthy has been more vocally complimentary of this offseason than Williams. Quotes like (from here):

 

As a side note, the only two other guys I've heard similar (though less extreme) statements about from McCarthy this offseason have been S Kentrell Brice and (***fantasy relevant***) Jimmy Graham (Rodgers has also been vocally complimentary of Graham; I can't recall to what extent this contrasts his public statements on Martellus Bennett last year or Jared Cook the year before (though Cook performed when healthy; and if you ask Bennett, he wasn't healthy the entire season) -- and Rodgers has notably been critical of the trio of WRs the Packers drafted (though complimentary of Geronimo Allison) so he too is not one to dish out compliments when he doesn't feel they're deserved).  

 

So back to Jamaal Williams. As you're probably aware, he's far-and-away the best pass-blocking RB on the Packers' roster -- completely different ballpark than Jones or TyMont. Fifth-best in the NFL, as a rookie, last year, according to SIS. I mean, just look at this identification and execution of a difficult block of a free blitzer coming from as far from where he's lined up as possible. And believe me, you cannot underestimate how important pass-blocking is to a team that: A) has very recently seen what happens when their QB gets injured, and will prioritize players/schemes to prevent that as much as possible in the future, and B) runs a complex offense that has lost some key veteran offensive line cogs in the past few seasons (Lang and Sitton) whose continuity (along with the rest of the O-line) is an undeniable advantage in pass protection effectiveness. 

 

So there's reason to believe Williams is the preferable RB for the Packers to have in the game on 3rd-down passing situations (if they have a RB on the field -- can split TyMont wide, or keep Marcedes Lewis in to block if they're finding their O-line giving up a lot of pressure). 

 

Two more final thoughts:

1. I think Williams' skills as a RB are dramatically underrated. When you watch Aaron Jones, he seems to "pop" -- shot out of a cannon, some would describe it; more "explosive," certainly. Reminds me of Christine Michael during his brief time with the Packers (haven't watched a lot of him elsewhere) -- goes from 0 to 60 by the time he's got the ball, but seems to lack the vision to be a successful NFL RB. I love what Jones offers as a change of pace due to that "thunder and lightning" element he offers along with Williams. But a recent podcast I heard talked about Jordan Howard and why he's been so successful despite lacking the breakaway speed or, at least to my knowledge, freakish athleticism that gives him the elusiveness of guys like Kareem Hunt (or Jamaal Charles in his prime). The analyst on the podcast talked about how Howard knows how to run in traffic -- surrounded by bodies, some of whom are your teammates, most of whom aren't, but knowing how to move your body in relation to these other massive bodies (subconsciously predicting THEIR movements, while simultaneously physically breaking imperfect tackle attempts, etc.). I don't know if "vision" is the right word because that implies identification of cutback lanes (which a RB can also possess, but is not exactly what I'm talking about), nor is necessarily "patience" -- "feel" seems like a more accurate word. Essentially, Howard can get 3, 4, 5 yards per carry nearly at will due to his skills in this "feel" attribute, and I think Williams possesses it as well. Of course, an open running lane doesn't prevent him from getting a whole lot more than 3-5 yards, but (without looking up the stats and just going by intuition here) I feel like Howard is a guy who doesn't run for negative yardage all that often, and I think Williams shares this "feel" attribute of Howard's running style (though he's got more going for him than just that). (Side note: Williams and Howard have identical 40 times: 4.59 sec). I love Aaron Jones and think he plays a role in this offense when he comes back (I'm more skeptical of TyMont -- I think he's going to be more of a hybrid RB/WR this year than true RB, but that's pure speculation). 

2. And one final thing: back when the Packers were producing single fantasy-relevant RBs (essentially one or two years of Lacy), remember what was a HUGE part of their game? Here's a hint.

 

TL;DR: Draft Jamaal Williams and don't worry about him -- he's gonna crush it unless he gets injured. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Dan, what do u think of Williams outlook now?

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Geesh.  For someone trying to keep it short, Danmam's was the longest post I've ever read.  Good commentary.  Not sure I agree with all of it.  

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1 hour ago, StevenSC400 said:

Too bad we don't get points for pass blocking in fantasy football.

If only I got a point for every time this sad joke was used. 

 

 

 

 

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