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Kawhi Leonard 2018-19 Season Thread

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39 minutes ago, jmoney23 said:

 

Good deal for both sides.  I think Toronto won the trade, but San Antonio got an All Star in his prime, a good young big with upside, and a 1st rounder for a guy that was likely leaving in a year anyways.

 

It all depends on whether they can get Kawhi to stay or lose him for nothing but definitely a bold move and good for them for trying, especially with how close they have been, the window of the current team (lowry, ibaka with 2 more years) and the state of the east.

 

Fantasy wise, this should open up JV for more playing time since they are losing Poetl and haven't even resigned Bebe yet.

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Now Toronto has a new coach, an unhappy PG losing his best friend and an unhappy all-star just don't want to play there at all.

 

Kawhi maybe traded mid-season to one of the LA team.

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It will be interesting to see if we ever get a reliable indication on what the Lakers were offering.  The Spurs obviously chose the stay relevant now path with getting an in-his-prime All-Star in DeRozan.  I wonder if the Lakers ever seriously offered a package with 3 of the following - Ball, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma.   

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9 minutes ago, J.T. Marlin said:

It will be interesting to see if we ever get a reliable indication on what the Lakers were offering.  The Spurs obviously chose the stay relevant now path with getting an in-his-prime All-Star in DeRozan.  I wonder if the Lakers ever seriously offered a package with 3 of the following - Ball, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma.   

Reports I read were that they were offering one of them (Ingram) plus picks.  The spurs rejected and they went back to negotiations. It goes without saying that DeRozan is a better player than Ingram for the time being.  Losing Green was no big loss as I heard Pop was frustrated with him and he plays the same position as DeRozan.  They also got a pick and Poeltl out of it whom has a lot of potential.  I think they also said they would prefer not to deal Kawhi to a wc team.  It all makes sense except for one thing: DeRozan doesn’t seem like a “Spur”.  Medium efficiency volume shooter who cannot shoot threes and is a mediocre defender doesn’t ring spur to me.  I think DeRozan’s fantasy value has peaked and Pop will cannabolize his minutes and give him rest days per usual.  

Edited by StifleTower2
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I think that is a good move for the Raps. They get arguable a top 5 player when healthy for at least a year. I think they are waiting to see how this year plays out. If they feel like they can go for it this year, they continue and hope Kawhi resigns. If they think that Boston and Philly are too strong, maybe they flip Kawhi and start the full rebuild. The pick they gave is protected from the top 20 next year, and while Poetl is a promising player, he doesn't have star potential. If they feel that this isn't the year, I am sure that they can get picks and young players half way through the season. The Raps, did not give up their stronger young guys like VanVleet, Wright, Siakim and OG. While DeRozen is a great player and arguably the best Raptor ever, he and Lowry are in the top tier of superstars. Trading DeRozen is a worthwille risk as you get out from that huge contract as well. It seems like this is the on the fence year...do we go for it in a Lebron free East or rebuild knowing that the West will likely crush us in the finals ...if we can even get there through the young up and coming teams like Boston, Philly and perhaps Milwaukee.

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40 minutes ago, Ontario Joe said:

I think that is a good move for the Raps. They get arguable a top 5 player when healthy for at least a year. I think they are waiting to see how this year plays out. If they feel like they can go for it this year, they continue and hope Kawhi resigns. If they think that Boston and Philly are too strong, maybe they flip Kawhi and start the full rebuild. The pick they gave is protected from the top 20 next year, and while Poetl is a promising player, he doesn't have star potential. If they feel that this isn't the year, I am sure that they can get picks and young players half way through the season. The Raps, did not give up their stronger young guys like VanVleet, Wright, Siakim and OG. While DeRozen is a great player and arguably the best Raptor ever, he and Lowry are in the top tier of superstars. Trading DeRozen is a worthwille risk as you get out from that huge contract as well. It seems like this is the on the fence year...do we go for it in a Lebron free East or rebuild knowing that the West will likely crush us in the finals ...if we can even get there through the young up and coming teams like Boston, Philly and perhaps Milwaukee.

Meant to say...not in the top tier of superstars...

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Glad it's finally over. Good trade on both ends, would've liked to see Siam involved but I'll take this over anything else I heard out there in rumorville. Plus the Lakers don't get what they want and Uncle Dennis is gonna lose so much money for Kawhi. One day they'll be a 30 for 30 on how Kawhi's uncle ruined his career. 

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Is there a CBA rule that prevents TOR from trading Kawhi this summer?

If not, I am wondering if we might see another trade.. just a hunch.

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Just now, jay14bay said:

Is there a CBA rule that prevents TOR from trading Kawhi this summer?

If not, I am wondering if we might see another trade.. just a hunch.

 

Yes.  The challenge will be Toronto is way over the cap so they'd have to take Deng's deal in any S&T and it would cost the Lakers assets (maybe Hart and draft pick).

 

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2 hours ago, Stefan said:

This just... doesn't look right :lol:

37402471_10160878963375724_6244574172811

 

It'll look much better once h's doing this:

8e51d18c441e75aa54a56f18333033fe.gif

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fk Kawhi...hope he enjoys going to work on a dog sled next year...

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People seem to think it is a good trade but as a neutral fan this looks like one of the worst lose/lose trades I have seen.

 

Toronto trades arguably the best player in franchise history for a guy that clearly doesn't want to be there and keeping him for more than a season would be a miracle.

San Antonio gets a guy that is also upset, doesn't really fit their style, and probably doesn't want to be there as well.

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14 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

People seem to think it is a good trade but as a neutral fan this looks like one of the worst lose/lose trades I have seen.

 

Toronto trades arguably the best player in franchise history for a guy that clearly doesn't want to be there and keeping him for more than a season would be a miracle.

San Antonio gets a guy that is also upset, doesn't really fit their style, and probably doesn't want to be there as well.

 

I dunno, that Derozan contract is massive, TOR is probably happy to get out from under it.  Not that he isn't a good player, he is, but $28mil a year is too much.

 

Given the circumstances, SA got something, but I agree it's not great for them.  Kawhi really banged them bad with his antics.

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15 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

People seem to think it is a good trade but as a neutral fan this looks like one of the worst lose/lose trades I have seen.

 

Toronto trades arguably the best player in franchise history for a guy that clearly doesn't want to be there and keeping him for more than a season would be a miracle.

San Antonio gets a guy that is also upset, doesn't really fit their style, and probably doesn't want to be there as well.

 

A disgruntled for a disgruntled seems fair to me.:lol:

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11 minutes ago, jay14bay said:

Is there a CBA rule that prevents TOR from trading Kawhi this summer?

If not, I am wondering if we might see another trade.. just a hunch.

There is a possibility that for Toronto the plan was never to go for Kawhi in the first place but rather to get him and trade him. It just doesn't make sense to get a guy that clearly wants no part of you. They may have just decided that Derozan isn't a guy that can get them to the finals (they would be correct). Maybe their plan is to more or less trade Derozan for Green and something like Ingram.

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Everyone should take a look at @4protocol on twitter. It's Kawhi's Unlce Dennis' "agency." If you want a good laugh look at the comments on his picture of himself. 

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I think the trade only appears bad if you misunderstand the assumptions I believe Toronto was working under.  There are 30 teams in the league so all things being equal you are about 1/30 to win the championship any given year.  Toronto put themselves into a position where they had slightly better than that at maybe 1/10.  But it was evident they were not getting over the hump with DeRozan.  DeRozan is an inefficient volume scorer who is a mediocre ball handler and defender.  Kawhi is an elite two way player who doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective which increases the value of both the wing position and Lowry.  They’re still huge underdogs to win the title but if they can make it to the finals that would be a huge accomplishment for Toronto.  When you’re right at the cusp I think that’s when pushing All-in makes the most sense. One of two things will happen.  They will either make the finals and possibly keep Kawhi thus making it further than they ever have in history.  Or If they lose out on signing Kawhi long term that just pushes toward a rebuild which was inevitable anyway as DeRozan wasn’t getting them a title anyway.  Sometimes you just have to go all-in.  

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I feel like the more you follow NBA players' twitter and their interviews and general off court stuff, the less you like this trade for Toronto.  The more you just watch basketball and don't love DeMar as a person, the more you like it.

 

Most of what I'm reading about how this trade is bad for Toronto is people calling DeMar the best Raptor ever (different from the best player whose played for the Raptors, of course), talking about how loyal he was to franchise, talking about how much he loved the city and so on.   When you strip that away, the trade looks like a win for Toronto.  

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5 minutes ago, Pyschout said:

I feel like the more you follow NBA players' twitter and their interviews and general off court stuff, the less you like this trade for Toronto.  The more you just watch basketball and don't love DeMar as a person, the more you like it.

 

Most of what I'm reading about how this trade is bad for Toronto is people calling DeMar the best Raptor ever (different from the best player whose played for the Raptors, of course), talking about how loyal he was to franchise, talking about how much he loved the city and so on.   When you strip that away, the trade looks like a win for Toronto.  

If I may I think what you’re getting at is an emotional decision versus a strategic one.  I don’t think DeRozan can win a championship in today’s NBA because he isn’t efficient enough offensively particularly in an era where teams are constructed around shooting 3’s at 40% (12 points per 10 possessions) while he shoots 2s at 45% (9 points per 10 possessions).  I think that’s why the raptors do well in the regular season because DeRozan can carve up bad teams but they lose to more efficient teams in the playoffs.  Moreover, he is good enough on defense to not be a negative but not good enough to be a positive.  I also think his usage takes away from Lowry who is arguably better suited for today’s NBA even if DeRozan is the better player in the abstract.  I also think an underrated aspect of this trade is getting Danny Green who is still viable.  That makes their starting 5: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Ibaka, Valancuinas which is filthy on paper.  I don’t know for certain how they will gel but on paper I would say they’re the favorites to make the finals.  Mejiri doesn’t get enough credit imo as he is probably a top 5 GM.  He knows DeRozan wasn’t getting them over the hump.  For Raptors fans I assume it’s sad to see DeRozan go but if they make the finals it will quickly be forgotten.  The GM’s job is to maximize his team’s chance of winning a title and he did that.  Right up there with Ainge imo.  

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53 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

People seem to think it is a good trade but as a neutral fan this looks like one of the worst lose/lose trades I have seen.

 

Toronto trades arguably the best player in franchise history for a guy that clearly doesn't want to be there and keeping him for more than a season would be a miracle.

San Antonio gets a guy that is also upset, doesn't really fit their style, and probably doesn't want to be there as well.

 

DeRozan is salty about being lied to by the Raptors.  Tons of players when traded are shocked and pissed when they first find out they've been moved.  Plus, DD had actually really embraced Toronto, which wasn't like other stars like Vince or Tracy, who wanted to get out fairly quickly.  DeRozan is a solid guy and he'll probably eventually cool off and realize he's been put in a great situation.  I don't anticipate any issues with DeRozan..... now, Kawhi?  No idea.  Toronto's actually a great city for 6 months.  Those winters though......

 

Kawhi's a wild card, it's a coin flip if he ever embraces Toronto but those who are controlling him are pissed this morning and will want to move him to another market ASAP.  Can those folks be won over?  Can they have their minds changed?  That's the challenge for Ujiri.  I think it can be done..... but he'll need to get in those dudes ears quickly.  They're provincial thinkers and real amateurs.  They don't have a global view of things, perhaps Ujiri can sell them on one for Kawhi....

 

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My favorite part is how quick it was "leaked" that he doesn't want to play in Toronto.

 

"Hey Kawhi. I know you didn't prefer Toronto but the city, fans, and organization are great. Give us a sh-"

"Let me stop you right there. I DON'T LIKE YOU."

 

More or less how I imagine the conversation went. 

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3 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

My favorite part is how quick it was "leaked" that he doesn't want to play in Toronto.

 

"Hey Kawhi. I know you didn't prefer Toronto but the city, fans, and organization are great. Give us a sh-"

"Let me stop you right there. I DON'T LIKE YOU."

 

More or less how I imagine the conversation went. 

 

Yea, Uncle Dennis and his current agent are really bad at this...... They may have cost their client 80 million dollars and once taxes are factored in, maybe closer to 90 dependent on some things.  They need to write a book of how not to make a deal.  Toronto could always flip him to LA later but Leonard's the big loser right now.  Maybe that changes in a year, but..... he could of got that in a year anyway.  They're just amateurs.

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3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Yea, Uncle Dennis and his current agent are really bad at this...... They may have cost their client 80 million dollars and once taxes are factored in, maybe closer to 90 dependent on some things.  They need to write a book of how not to make a deal.  Toronto could always flip him to LA later but Leonard's the big loser right now.  Maybe that changes in a year, but..... he could of got that in a year anyway.  They're just amateurs.

Not only that but he was just traded away from one of the best organizations in professional sport.  It would be akin to demanding a trade away from the Patriots.  If you’re not happy you’re not happy, fine.  You don’t like winning?  Cool. But it’s still an amateurish move.  

Edited by StifleTower2

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23 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

If I may I think what you’re getting at is an emotional decision versus a strategic one.  I don’t think DeRozan can win a championship in today’s NBA because he isn’t efficient enough offensively particularly in an era where teams are constructed around shooting 3’s at 40% (12 points per 10 possessions) while he shoots 2s at 45% (9 points per 10 possessions).  I think that’s why the raptors do well in the regular season because DeRozan can carve up bad teams but they lose to more efficient teams in the playoffs.  Moreover, he is good enough on defense to not be a negative but not good enough to be a positive.  I also think his usage takes away from Lowry who is arguably better suited for today’s NBA even if DeRozan is the better player in the abstract.  I also think an underrated aspect of this trade is getting Danny Green who is still viable.  That makes their starting 5: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Ibaka, Valancuinas which is filthy on paper.  I don’t know for certain how they will gel but on paper I would say they’re the favorites to make the finals.  Mejiri doesn’t get enough credit imo as he is probably a top 5 GM.  He knows DeRozan wasn’t getting them over the hump.  For Raptors fans I assume it’s sad to see DeRozan go but if they make the finals it will quickly be forgotten.  The GM’s job is to maximize his team’s chance of winning a title and he did that.  Right up there with Ainge imo.  

 

I agree with you.  I'm saying that MOST of the people who are saying this trade sucks for Toronto are doing it because they love DeMar.  I'm not saying I dislike him at all, I'm just saying I don't really pay attention to all the off the court stuff so I'm seeing a borderline All-NBA volume scorer without a three point shot, whose team had capped out with him traded for a borderline MVP candidate with health concerns. AKA a risk you're happy taking.

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Just now, Pyschout said:

 

I agree with you.  I'm saying that MOST of the people who are saying this trade sucks for Toronto are doing it because they love DeMar.  I'm not saying I dislike him at all, I'm just saying I don't really pay attention to all the off the court stuff so I'm seeing a borderline All-NBA volume scorer without a three point shot, whose team had capped out with him traded for a borderline MVP candidate with health concerns. AKA a risk you're happy taking.

The reason I don't view it as a good trade is you are getting a player that has already stated he doesn't want to be there. Just bringing the issues from S.A to Toronto. The main thing is he didn't want to just leave S.A because he hated the organization rather he wanted to go to L.A. 

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