hipriest69

Punting points strategy

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I'd like to discuss the idea of punting points.  I think of all the categories to punt, this is it.  It boosts the value of so many players.  On draft day it allows you to get value for your picks, and since most owners will have those players ranked lower because of their lower scoring output, there's a huge probability that less of your targets are sniped.  The later rounds get even easier to fill out your squad.  It seems like you're reaching for players left and right but where you're picking them you're actually getting insane value for your build.  Also throughout the season you can find players on the wire and via trade who give you valuable contributions in other categories...who would normally hurt you in scoring, but fit your build perfectly.

 

I think one of the challenges is to be mindful of % when building these teams.  

 

Some targets for punt points outside of the top ten 

 

Gobert

Whiteside

Draymond

Capela

Porter

Simmons

RoCo

Jrue

Gary Harris

Horford

Marc Gasol

J-Rich

Rubio

Ingles

Kyle Anderson

Pat Beverly

Danny Green

Kris Dunn

Henson

Hield

Crabbe

Roberson

Jarret Allen

Steven Adams

Enes Kanter

Taj Gibson

 

The list goes on and on

 

Say you end up with something like this - 

 

1. Jokic

2. Draymond

3. Porter

4. Horford

5. Rubio

6. J-Rich

7. Dunn

8. Green

9. Anderson

10. Ingles

11. Hield

12. Collins / Gibson

13. Henson

 

 

You are absolutely beast mode elite in Reb, Assists, Stls, Blks, 3's, turnovers.  Both % are are well above average.  I can see a consistent 6-3 / 7-2 win on a weekly basis.  

 

 

      

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Jordan and Drummond are also (potential) targets  if you can get FT% anchors.  Lin (if healthy) would be a good fit in later rounds

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I think punt points is a really good strategy in principle but I’ve never had it click in practice. I punted points in three leagues last year including the H2H mock in this leagues and made the playoffs in all 3.  But no ships.  The problem I’ve found is that the punt points guys are inherently low usage so although they provide money stats much of the time it’s too easy for them to do nothing.  I’m not saying it’s a poor strategy but I’ve had more success with others. 

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for sure, punt points is a good strategy. most managers over value pts. in my opinion, it is a high upside strategy. but just like any punt strategies, it has its drawback. you have to be mindful of your percentages in this strategy especially with your first several picks. with punting pts, your volume in FG FT are low, as players who gain value in this strategy have low usage. so percentages are gonna be inconsistent cause a poor shooting week from your ace players hurt the categories a lot more.

 

if doing this strategy, i suggest doing a double punt with punting FT as well.

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I usually punt points.

 

It works well.

 

To be sure, it's a hedging strategy. You're not going to build a dominant team but deliberately going light on points. But you're in all likelihood not going to have disastrous roster either.

 

Strange enough, I've found that a trick of the punting points strategy is that, while overall you're avoiding points, you can/should also target guys that are very points and percentages heavy. Paradoxical eh?

 

Since you're going to be flush in steals, blocks, assists, 3's etc, you can afford to pursue a DeRozan, a Kanter, a Klay, etc. Meanwhile other managers will look at them and think: "They don't do that much. Pass."

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4 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

I usually punt points.

 

It works well.

 

To be sure, it's a hedging strategy. You're not going to build a dominant team but deliberately going light on points. But you're in all likelihood not going to have disastrous roster either.

 

Strange enough, I've found that a trick of the punting points strategy is that, while overall you're avoiding points, you can/should also target guys that are very points and percentages heavy. Paradoxical eh?

 

Since you're going to be flush in steals, blocks, assists, 3's etc, you can afford to pursue a DeRozan, a Kanter, a Klay, etc. Meanwhile other managers will look at them and think: "They don't do that much. Pass."

I agree.  When you punt points you generally want your first rounder to be a huge efficiency anchor such as Towns, Curry, or Durant.  That way your peripheral players have less of an impact on your percentages and it actually enhances the value of your first round player.  Punting points is actually the best way to maximize the value out of your first rounder. 

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On 7/6/2018 at 6:22 PM, Gile Pile said:

Jordan and Drummond are also (potential) targets  if you can get FT% anchors.  Lin (if healthy) would be a good fit in later rounds

There's no ft anchors that can offset Jordan and/or drummond.

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One problem you may run into is difficulty with FT% and 3 pointers but then again, teams focused on points tend to have their own troubles, being TO and FG%.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Rhythms said:

There's no ft anchors that can offset Jordan and/or drummond.

to the contrary. There are  quite few of them. You just need to get at least two of high attempts and high percentage free throw shooters in early rounds (Durant, Harden, Derozanm Booker, Lillard, Davis, Curry, Aldridge to name some of them).

 

And the rest of the team must have good FT%.   lt will make you very competitive, even against elite FT% teams.

In other words, you need to go with "punt points" strategy  from round 1.

Edited by Gile Pile
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15 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

to the contrary. There are  quite few of them. You just need to get at least two of high attempts and high percentage free throw shooters in early rounds (Durant, Harden, Derozanm Booker, Lillard, Davis, Curry, Aldridge to name some of them).

 

And the rest of the team must have good FT%.   lt will make you very competitive, even against elite FT% teams.

In other words, you need to go with "punt points" strategy  from round 1.

Have you done the math? Cause I've plugged it into Basketball monster and unless you do something ridiculous, you're going to be at the bottom of the standings.

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1 hour ago, Rhythms said:

Have you done the math? Cause I've plugged it into Basketball monster and unless you do something ridiculous, you're going to be at the bottom of the standings.

Disclaimer first: I only play in deep leagues (H2H, 14+ teams, 12 or more on the roster). I find  roto (I have short attention span) or 10 or 12 teams H2H league boring (waiver wire is always full).


Now to answer your question:

Yes I have.  

Let's say you have Curry, DeRozan, and you pair then with Drummond or Nurkic.
FTA for the season:
Curry       5.5 / 5.9      278 / 302
DeRozan     5.8 /7.0       461 / 559
Drummond    3.1  /5.1      239 / 395
Nurkic      2.2 /3.5       172 / 273


FT% for the season:
with Drummond  978  /1256    77.8%   
with Nurk  911 /1134  80.3 %

 

If you look for the rest of the stats (numbers are for FGM/FGA, FG%, FTM/FTA, FT%, 3PM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, DD, PTS)

DeRozan        8.1/17.7    .456    5.8/7.0    .825    1.1     3.9    5.2    1.1    0.3    2.2    0.0    23
Curry         8.4/16.9    .495    5.5/5.9    .921    4.2     5.1    6.1    1.6    0.2    3.0    0.1    26.4
Drummond    6.0/11.3    .529    3.1/5.1    .605    0.0     16.0    3.0    1.5    1.6    2.6    0.8    15.0
Nurkic      6.1/12.0    .505    2.2/3.5    .630    0.0     9.0    1.8    0.8    1.4    2.3    0.3    14.3

 

Worst FG% of the four mentioned belongs to DeRozan (45.6%? terrible, I know).

Fill the rest of your roster with players that are not huge negative contributors in any category (Gibson, Ingles, Kyle Anderson types) and you have solid foundation to build.  Key is adding secondary players that fit and add to your strengths.  

 

I used this strategy when I joined two-tier  league (you need to finish in top 3 in D-league to get promotion to the main league), and it worked like a charm (lost in finals, but who cares, I am in the main league now).  

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In the past the math showed this was absolutely not viable.  However, with Drummond and DeAndre Jordan improving at FT this past year I think it’s possible.  Howard will still absolutely destroy your FT and TO without winning you Rebs, FG, or blocks so he’s absolutely not viable unless you’re already punting FT and TO.  

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

Disclaimer first: I only play in deep leagues (H2H, 14+ teams, 12 or more on the roster). I find  roto (I have short attention span) or 10 or 12 teams H2H league boring (waiver wire is always full).


Now to answer your question:

Yes I have.  

Let's say you have Curry, DeRozan, and you pair then with Drummond or Nurkic.
FTA for the season:
Curry       5.5 / 5.9      278 / 302
DeRozan     5.8 /7.0       461 / 559
Drummond    3.1  /5.1      239 / 395
Nurkic      2.2 /3.5       172 / 273


FT% for the season:
with Drummond  978  /1256    77.8%   
with Nurk  911 /1134  80.3 %

 

If you look for the rest of the stats (numbers are for FGM/FGA, FG%, FTM/FTA, FT%, 3PM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, DD, PTS)

DeRozan        8.1/17.7    .456    5.8/7.0    .825    1.1     3.9    5.2    1.1    0.3    2.2    0.0    23
Curry         8.4/16.9    .495    5.5/5.9    .921    4.2     5.1    6.1    1.6    0.2    3.0    0.1    26.4
Drummond    6.0/11.3    .529    3.1/5.1    .605    0.0     16.0    3.0    1.5    1.6    2.6    0.8    15.0
Nurkic      6.1/12.0    .505    2.2/3.5    .630    0.0     9.0    1.8    0.8    1.4    2.3    0.3    14.3

 

Worst FG% of the four mentioned belongs to DeRozan (45.6%? terrible, I know).

Fill the rest of your roster with players that are not huge negative contributors in any category (Gibson, Ingles, Kyle Anderson types) and you have solid foundation to build.  Key is adding secondary players that fit and add to your strengths.  

 

I used this strategy when I joined two-tier  league (you need to finish in top 3 in D-league to get promotion to the main league), and it worked like a charm (lost in finals, but who cares, I am in the main league now).  

 

 Offsetting Drummond or DJ fts is a strategy im planning on testing out this year as theyve both increased their ft%. From my calculations in BBM it seems like the key is high volume ft shooters to offset. For ex. Harden/Lillard first round, drummond 2nd round,  then a guy like demar later on can have you hovering near 80%

 

I feel like 16rpg while still having a strong ft% allows you to be competitive in boards without burning high picks on other bigs or wasting later picks on those 11/7 bigs that are a toss up night in night on.

 

This strategy gives me my best chance to stay away from those late round bigs that are a chance to give you 5pts 3rebs on any given night.

 

 

 

 

Edited by FantasyBallFan

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1 hour ago, Gile Pile said:

Disclaimer first: I only play in deep leagues (H2H, 14+ teams, 12 or more on the roster). I find  roto (I have short attention span) or 10 or 12 teams H2H league boring (waiver wire is always full).


Now to answer your question:

Yes I have.  

Let's say you have Curry, DeRozan, and you pair then with Drummond or Nurkic.
FTA for the season:
Curry       5.5 / 5.9      278 / 302
DeRozan     5.8 /7.0       461 / 559
Drummond    3.1  /5.1      239 / 395
Nurkic      2.2 /3.5       172 / 273


FT% for the season:
with Drummond  978  /1256    77.8%   
with Nurk  911 /1134  80.3 %

 

If you look for the rest of the stats (numbers are for FGM/FGA, FG%, FTM/FTA, FT%, 3PM, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, DD, PTS)

DeRozan        8.1/17.7    .456    5.8/7.0    .825    1.1     3.9    5.2    1.1    0.3    2.2    0.0    23
Curry         8.4/16.9    .495    5.5/5.9    .921    4.2     5.1    6.1    1.6    0.2    3.0    0.1    26.4
Drummond    6.0/11.3    .529    3.1/5.1    .605    0.0     16.0    3.0    1.5    1.6    2.6    0.8    15.0
Nurkic      6.1/12.0    .505    2.2/3.5    .630    0.0     9.0    1.8    0.8    1.4    2.3    0.3    14.3

 

Worst FG% of the four mentioned belongs to DeRozan (45.6%? terrible, I know).

Fill the rest of your roster with players that are not huge negative contributors in any category (Gibson, Ingles, Kyle Anderson types) and you have solid foundation to build.  Key is adding secondary players that fit and add to your strengths.  

 

I used this strategy when I joined two-tier  league (you need to finish in top 3 in D-league to get promotion to the main league), and it worked like a charm (lost in finals, but who cares, I am in the main league now).  

Drummond had a career year shooting fts. Look at the last 3 years or use Dwight or Deandre's historic stats.

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15 minutes ago, Rhythms said:

Drummond had a career year shooting fts. Look at the last 3 years or use Dwight or Deandre's historic stats.

While I agree that the numbers always indicated it wasn’t viable historically, for the future it depends on your assumptions.  If you assume Drummond will regress to his mean then it means you can’t plan around it.  But if you think he will continue to improve then it becomes quite viable.

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55 minutes ago, Rhythms said:

Drummond had a career year shooting fts. Look at the last 3 years or use Dwight or Deandre's historic stats.

 

You don't have to use Drummond.   Replace him with Nurkic (career 60 %) and numbers are still working

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I will say this though: If you like to watch your players games, don't punt points!

 

It's pretty exasperating watching your 1 3pt - 1 blk - 1 stl  guy stand in the corner on offense all game long.

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4 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

 

You don't have to use Drummond.   Replace him with Nurkic (career 60 %) and numbers are still working

The whole point of punting points is so you can get guys that are worth more than their draft position would indicate. Nurkic is worth 10th round (less if you punt points).

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On 7/6/2018 at 9:58 PM, StifleTower2 said:

I think punt points is a really good strategy in principle but I’ve never had it click in practice. I punted points in three leagues last year including the H2H mock in this leagues and made the playoffs in all 3.  But no ships.  The problem I’ve found is that the punt points guys are inherently low usage so although they provide money stats much of the time it’s too easy for them to do nothing.  I’m not saying it’s a poor strategy but I’ve had more success with others. 

I won a league last year doing that, but you're right that the low usage hurts.  Kyle Anderson can blow up one game and then do f--- all the next.  And obviously blocks and steals become more important cats and they're feast or famine.

 

But the biggest issue I had with it was when you're looking for a streamer or a short term WW pickup, the pickings are sparse: you're probably punting threes, so that's like half of the value of streamers.  On a larger level, when you have multiple leagues, all your points punt teams have the same players.  That can defeat the purpose of having multiple leagues (spreading your risk).

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21 minutes ago, Tom Chambers said:

I won a league last year doing that, but you're right that the low usage hurts.  Kyle Anderson can blow up one game and then do f--- all the next.  And obviously blocks and steals become more important cats and they're feast or famine.

 

But the biggest issue I had with it was when you're looking for a streamer or a short term WW pickup, the pickings are sparse: you're probably punting threes, so that's like half of the value of streamers.  On a larger level, when you have multiple leagues, all your points punt teams have the same players.  That can defeat the purpose of having multiple leagues (spreading your risk).

All excellent points which is why if I’m punting I’ll only do a punt strategy in one league per punt. 

 

Although I do a “soft punt” of points organically quite often because it’s often overvalued by others.

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On 7/8/2018 at 2:49 PM, My Dinner With Andre said:

I will say this though: If you like to watch your players games, don't punt points!

 

It's pretty exasperating watching your 1 3pt - 1 blk - 1 stl  guy stand in the corner on offense all game long.

 

this is so true, and on the flip side, last year i did a punt fg%/to in my main league, and that was extremely fun to watch (up until Boogie achilles tear...)

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On 7/8/2018 at 10:35 AM, StifleTower2 said:

In the past the math showed this was absolutely not viable.  However, with Drummond and DeAndre Jordan improving at FT this past year I think it’s possible.  Howard will still absolutely destroy your FT and TO without winning you Rebs, FG, or blocks so he’s absolutely not viable unless you’re already punting FT and TO.  

It will all look well and good unless one of your weird players gets hurt and throws the entire balance of your team out of whack. You clearly know how to draft, but the majority of posters on these boards in the punt threads go into a draft deciding on categories they're going to punt before anything even starts. That's when you don't get value, and that's when getting a bunch of bizarre players and then having gaping holes when one of them misses 30 games really hurts you. I would simply caution other posters in here to get value, and stop trying to pair players with other players. Get guys that are good, and when you're a few rounds into the draft and you're starting to see major weaknesses or strengths, move yourself towards the middle if you can.

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why punt the most exciting stat in basketball? lol 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, cdd10 said:

why punt the most exciting stat in basketball? lol 

Because it's also the most overvalued stat in basketball.

Edited by Rhythms
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If there happens to be another guy in your league who also follows this strategy you may be screwed since you will be cannibalizing each others player pool.

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