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AirForceOne

Offensive Line Rankings - Pro Football Focus

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Some great info that may help you sort out your RB and QB rankings, and defensive starters... 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2018

 

1. Philadelphia

2. Dallas

3. Atlanta

4. Pittsburgh

5. Tennessee

6. New Orleans

7. Oakland

8. Detroit

9. Green Bay

10. LA Rams

11. New England

12. Washington

13. Chicago

14. Cleveland

15. Jacksonville

16. San Francisco

17. Indianapolis

18. Kansas City

19. Denver

20. Miami

21. Carolina

22. Tampa Bay

23. LA Chargers

24. Baltimore

25. NY Giants

26. Cincinnati

27. Arizona

28. Minnesota

29. Buffalo

30. Seattle

31. NY Jets

32. Houston

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4 minutes ago, AirForceOne said:

Some great info that may help you sort out your RB and QB rankings, and defensive starters... 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2018

 

1. Philadelphia

2. Dallas

3. Atlanta

4. Pittsburgh

5. Tennessee

6. New Orleans

7. Oakland

8. Detroit

9. Green Bay

10. LA Rams

11. New England

12. Washington

13. Chicago

14. Cleveland

15. Jacksonville

16. San Francisco

17. Indianapolis

18. Kansas City

19. Denver

20. Miami

21. Carolina

22. Tampa Bay

23. LA Chargers

24. Baltimore

25. NY Giants

26. Cincinnati

27. Arizona

28. Minnesota

29. Buffalo

30. Seattle

31. NY Jets

32. Houston

 

 

Garbage list based on opinions and surveys.  Use this instead.  Figure out who got better/worse based on free agency and the draft.  The Bengals are a lot better this year.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

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Posted (edited)

Good thread. I think Giants line is criminally underrated in the PFF rankings.

Edited by nonstopfan

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6 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Garbage list based on opinions and surveys.  Use this instead.  Figure out who got better/worse based on free agency and the draft.  The Bengals are a lot better this year.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

If a list is garbage because it has an opinion, then you must have a very small list of content you look from. You sound more like an angry Bengals fan... who's line is much improved, but also will collapse entirely if Cordy Glenn gets hurt, which he often does. And they don't like Billy Price and had him in the third round. Are they really supposed to back down from their opinions? 

 

I like PFF, for what it is. 

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4 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

Good thread. I think Giants line is criminally underrated in the PFF rankings.

 

The right side of the line is still bad. Hopefully it won't be atrocious this year.

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5 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

^^^^ I was going to say this as well. I'm not entirely sure if those rankings from PFF include changes made via Draft and Free agency

 

Yeah,

Statistically, the Eagles were #22 in run blocking last year (yards before first contact, second level yards, 3rd level yards), and they were 12th in sacks allowed.

Same offensive line as last year.

How the hell are they the #1 offensive line on anybody's list this year?  That's dumb as hell!

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5 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

Good thread. I think Giants line is criminally underrated in the PFF rankings.

 

How criminally? They don't get bonus points for how much they paid for Solder and I don't think anyone got huge upgrades for the rookies they brought in... I mean a team like the Ravens right above them could have a great line if the interior doesn't break down from injuries again this year. I don't know a ton about every line, but just looking even immediatley above them I don't know that I prefer their line to the Ravens'.

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2 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

If a list is garbage because it has an opinion, then you must have a very small list of content you look from. You sound more like an angry Bengals fan... who's line is much improved, but also will collapse entirely if Cordy Glenn gets hurt, which he often does. And they don't like Billy Price and had him in the third round. Are they really supposed to back down from their opinions? 

 

I like PFF, for what it is. 

 

 

The Eagles were the #22 run blocking line last year based on yards before first contact, second level, and 3rd level yards. 

They were 12th in sacks allowed.

Same line as last year.

Ranking them #1 is laughable.

 

RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
  Team Adj. Line
Yards
RB
Yards
Power
Success
Power
Rank
Stuffed Stuffed
Rank
2nd Level
Yards
2nd Level
Rank
Open Field
Yards
Open Field
Rank
Team Rank Sacks Adjusted
Sack Rate
1 NE 5.05 4.43 65% 14 16% 3 1.35 2 0.60 20 PIT 1 24 3.9%
2 NO 4.93 5.11 69% 7 15% 1 1.30 3 1.37 1 NO 2 20 4.0%
3 LARM 4.70 4.53 50% 29 22% 23 1.42 1 0.82 11 LACH 3 18 4.2%
4 DAL 4.66 4.26 77% 3 17% 4 1.16 16 0.67 19 BAL 4 27 4.3%
5 GB 4.60 4.13 66% 11 16% 2 1.10 19 0.51 24 JAC 5 24 4.4%
6 BAL 4.36 4.22 69% 7 20% 14 1.27 5 0.70 17 MIN 6 27 4.4%
7 PIT 4.36 4.07 65% 12 17% 5 1.22 10 0.48 27 OAK 7 24 4.6%
8 ATL 4.35 4.25 64% 17 21% 20 1.25 6 0.85 10 ATL 8 24 4.8%
9 DEN 4.31 4.03 65% 15 18% 7 1.11 18 0.51 26 LARM 9 28 5.6%
10 SF 4.20 4.13 62% 20 23% 25 1.24 7 0.76 14 NYG 10 34 5.8%
11 OAK 4.17 4.14 62% 21 22% 22 1.17 14 0.73 16 MIA 11 33 5.8%
12 KC 4.14 4.66 82% 1 18% 8 1.23 9 1.17 2 PHI 12 36 6.2%
13 JAC 4.12 4.16 62% 19 19% 10 0.98 27 0.96 7 NE 13 35 6.4%
14 CLE 4.09 4.15 74% 4 19% 11 1.23 8 0.75 15 TEN 14 35 6.4%
15 NYG 4.06 4.02 50% 29 17% 6 1.02 24 0.68 18 DAL 15 32 6.4%
16 TB 4.06 3.53 65% 12 20% 17 0.93 31 0.41 30 TB 16 40 6.5%
RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
  Team Adj. Line
Yards
RB
Yards
Power
Success
Power
Rank
Stuffed Stuffed
Rank
2nd Level
Yards
2nd Level
Rank
Open Field
Yards
Open Field
Rank
Team Rank Sacks Adjusted
Sack Rate
17 ARI 4.02 3.38 68% 9 20% 13 0.90 32 0.30 32 KC 17 37 6.7%
18 IND 3.98 3.63 81% 2 20% 16 1.00 25 0.44 29 SF 18 43 6.8%
19 MIN 3.96 3.98 67% 10 21% 19 1.11 17 0.77 13 CAR 19 35 7.1%
20 HOU 3.89 3.78 63% 18 21% 18 0.99 26 0.51 25 CIN 20 40 7.2%
21 WAS 3.86 3.65 55% 27 20% 15 1.04 22 0.45 28 DET 21 47 7.5%
22 PHI 3.85 4.52 64% 16 21% 21 1.30 4 1.14 3 CLE 22 50 7.6%
23 TEN 3.85 4.00 60% 23 23% 24 1.09 21 0.90 9 CHI 23 39 7.7%
24 CIN 3.79 3.70 59% 24 18% 9 1.17 12 0.41 31 WAS 24 41 7.7%
25 CAR 3.78 3.61 72% 5 19% 12 0.94 30 0.53 22 SEA 25 43 8.1%
26 LACH 3.71 3.93 58% 25 24% 26 1.17 13 0.78 12 ARI 26 52 8.1%
27 BUF 3.67 3.96 61% 22 26% 27 1.17 15 0.90 8 NYJ 27 47 8.6%
28 CHI 3.65 4.08 58% 26 26% 28 1.20 11 0.97 6 GB 28 51 8.6%
29 NYJ 3.40 3.96 48% 31 26% 29 1.03 23 1.04 5 DEN 29 52 9.1%
30 MIA 3.26 4.09 71% 6 27% 30 1.09 20 1.07 4 HOU 30 54 9.2%
31 SEA 3.18 3.30 55% 27 30% 32 0.97 28 0.54 21 BUF 31 47 9.3%
32 DET 3.16 3.31 45% 32 27% 31 0.94 29 0.52 23 IND 32 56 10.0%
x NFL x 4.03 64% x 21% x 1.00 x 0.65 x NFL x 37 6.7%

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Posted (edited)

A list which has the HOU OL above PHI is laughable. Even if it's only looking at run blocking.

Edited by joshua18
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1 minute ago, jmausen said:

 

 

The Eagles were the #22 run blocking line last year based on yards before first contact, second level, and 3rd level yards. 

They were 12th in sacks allowed.

Same line as last year.

Ranking them #1 is laughable.

 

RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
  Team Adj. Line
Yards
RB
Yards
Power
Success
Power
Rank
Stuffed Stuffed
Rank
2nd Level
Yards
2nd Level
Rank
Open Field
Yards
Open Field
Rank
Team Rank Sacks Adjusted
Sack Rate
1 NE 5.05 4.43 65% 14 16% 3 1.35 2 0.60 20 PIT 1 24 3.9%
2 NO 4.93 5.11 69% 7 15% 1 1.30 3 1.37 1 NO 2 20 4.0%
3 LARM 4.70 4.53 50% 29 22% 23 1.42 1 0.82 11 LACH 3 18 4.2%
4 DAL 4.66 4.26 77% 3 17% 4 1.16 16 0.67 19 BAL 4 27 4.3%
5 GB 4.60 4.13 66% 11 16% 2 1.10 19 0.51 24 JAC 5 24 4.4%
6 BAL 4.36 4.22 69% 7 20% 14 1.27 5 0.70 17 MIN 6 27 4.4%
7 PIT 4.36 4.07 65% 12 17% 5 1.22 10 0.48 27 OAK 7 24 4.6%
8 ATL 4.35 4.25 64% 17 21% 20 1.25 6 0.85 10 ATL 8 24 4.8%
9 DEN 4.31 4.03 65% 15 18% 7 1.11 18 0.51 26 LARM 9 28 5.6%
10 SF 4.20 4.13 62% 20 23% 25 1.24 7 0.76 14 NYG 10 34 5.8%
11 OAK 4.17 4.14 62% 21 22% 22 1.17 14 0.73 16 MIA 11 33 5.8%
12 KC 4.14 4.66 82% 1 18% 8 1.23 9 1.17 2 PHI 12 36 6.2%
13 JAC 4.12 4.16 62% 19 19% 10 0.98 27 0.96 7 NE 13 35 6.4%
14 CLE 4.09 4.15 74% 4 19% 11 1.23 8 0.75 15 TEN 14 35 6.4%
15 NYG 4.06 4.02 50% 29 17% 6 1.02 24 0.68 18 DAL 15 32 6.4%
16 TB 4.06 3.53 65% 12 20% 17 0.93 31 0.41 30 TB 16 40 6.5%
RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
  Team Adj. Line
Yards
RB
Yards
Power
Success
Power
Rank
Stuffed Stuffed
Rank
2nd Level
Yards
2nd Level
Rank
Open Field
Yards
Open Field
Rank
Team Rank Sacks Adjusted
Sack Rate
17 ARI 4.02 3.38 68% 9 20% 13 0.90 32 0.30 32 KC 17 37 6.7%
18 IND 3.98 3.63 81% 2 20% 16 1.00 25 0.44 29 SF 18 43 6.8%
19 MIN 3.96 3.98 67% 10 21% 19 1.11 17 0.77 13 CAR 19 35 7.1%
20 HOU 3.89 3.78 63% 18 21% 18 0.99 26 0.51 25 CIN 20 40 7.2%
21 WAS 3.86 3.65 55% 27 20% 15 1.04 22 0.45 28 DET 21 47 7.5%
22 PHI 3.85 4.52 64% 16 21% 21 1.30 4 1.14 3 CLE 22 50 7.6%
23 TEN 3.85 4.00 60% 23 23% 24 1.09 21 0.90 9 CHI 23 39 7.7%
24 CIN 3.79 3.70 59% 24 18% 9 1.17 12 0.41 31 WAS 24 41 7.7%
25 CAR 3.78 3.61 72% 5 19% 12 0.94 30 0.53 22 SEA 25 43 8.1%
26 LACH 3.71 3.93 58% 25 24% 26 1.17 13 0.78 12 ARI 26 52 8.1%
27 BUF 3.67 3.96 61% 22 26% 27 1.17 15 0.90 8 NYJ 27 47 8.6%
28 CHI 3.65 4.08 58% 26 26% 28 1.20 11 0.97 6 GB 28 51 8.6%
29 NYJ 3.40 3.96 48% 31 26% 29 1.03 23 1.04 5 DEN 29 52 9.1%
30 MIA 3.26 4.09 71% 6 27% 30 1.09 20 1.07 4 HOU 30 54 9.2%
31 SEA 3.18 3.30 55% 27 30% 32 0.97 28 0.54 21 BUF 31 47 9.3%
32 DET 3.16 3.31 45% 32 27% 31 0.94 29 0.52 23 IND 32 56 10.0%
x NFL x 4.03 64% x 21% x 1.00 x 0.65 x NFL x 37 6.7%

 

I disagreee. And I can just as easily say "your opinion is laughable." Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Jason Peters... those guys are STUDS. You wanna make a big deal about indivdiual metrics that other, less talented lines did better on? That's fine. But pretending that these metrics are the be-all-end-all and a company that does scouting is hilariously off base is just wrong.

 

You can disagree with their evaluation method. But I strongly disagree with yours. I don't think your opinion IS laughable to be clear, but I don't at all agree with the way you judge offensive lines. I just don't.

 

You just seem like an angry hater tbh. 

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1 minute ago, joshua18 said:

A list which has the HOU OL above PHI is laughable.


I dont' know why I even tried to argue. I should've just said this. THAT is absurd. 

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5 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

If a list is garbage because it has an opinion, then you must have a very small list of content you look from. You sound more like an angry Bengals fan... who's line is much improved, but also will collapse entirely if Cordy Glenn gets hurt, which he often does. And they don't like Billy Price and had him in the third round. Are they really supposed to back down from their opinions? 

 

I like PFF, for what it is. 

 

Angry Bengals fan?  That was the biggest improvement during the offseason.  Mixon will be a stud.  Dalton won't get sacked every drop back.

They lost their Pro-Bowl left tackle and All-Pro guard last year and didn't replace wither of them.  Worst line regression in 2017.  This year they picked up BUFs LT.  So McCoy takes a hit assuming he isn't suspended.

 

NE lost their best run blocker to the Giants.  Barkley++.  Their bust LT looks pretty good at RT, so check plus *++ for Barkley.

CAR lost their best guard to JAX.  Fournette ++.  Bortles ++.

Oakland drafted linemen early.

SF got Staley's future replacement.

CLE lost Joe Thomas and has like 4 guys trying to replace him.  They even signed uber-bust Greg Robinson who sucked for the Lions last year.  Not a good situation.

 

That's all that comes to mind right now.

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10 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

A list which has the HOU OL above PHI is laughable. Even if it's only looking at run blocking.

 

PHI was top 5 in 2nd and 3rd level yards.  That means when the RB had a 5+ yard run, it went long.  Those are outliers.  It is not representative of how successful a team is on 3 and short and goal line plays.  This list is statistics, not how people feel.

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13 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

I disagreee. And I can just as easily say "your opinion is laughable." Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Jason Peters... those guys are STUDS. You wanna make a big deal about indivdiual metrics that other, less talented lines did better on? That's fine. But pretending that these metrics are the be-all-end-all and a company that does scouting is hilariously off base is just wrong.

 

You can disagree with their evaluation method. But I strongly disagree with yours. I don't think your opinion IS laughable to be clear, but I don't at all agree with the way you judge offensive lines. I just don't.

 

You just seem like an angry hater tbh. 

 

I am NOT USING AN OPINION!!!

 

PHI was top 5 in 2nd and 3rd level yards.  That means when the RB had a 5+ yard run, it went long.  Those are outliers.  It is not representative of how successful a team is on 3 and short and goal line plays.  This list is statistics, not how people feel.

 

You can have a giant hard on for whomever you want.  I don't give a crap.  I'm an engineer.  Give me numbers without telling me which teams they represent.   That's all I care about!  Use individual PFF rankings to evaluate which teams got better/worse during the offseason.  NE got worse.  NYG got better.  BUF got wrose.  CIN better.  CAR worse. JAX better.  Eagles didn't change.

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18 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

I disagreee. And I can just as easily say "your opinion is laughable." Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Jason Peters... those guys are STUDS. You wanna make a big deal about indivdiual metrics that other, less talented lines did better on? That's fine. But pretending that these metrics are the be-all-end-all and a company that does scouting is hilariously off base is just wrong.

 

You can disagree with their evaluation method. But I strongly disagree with yours. I don't think your opinion IS laughable to be clear, but I don't at all agree with the way you judge offensive lines. I just don't.

 

You just seem like an angry hater tbh. 

 

 

Angry hater because I like math?

 

Okay?

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

Angry Bengals fan?  That was the biggest improvement during the offseason.  Mixon will be a stud.  Dalton won't get sacked every drop back.

They lost their Pro-Bowl left tackle and All-Pro guard last year and didn't replace wither of them.  Worst line regression in 2017.  This year they picked up BUFs LT.  So McCoy takes a hit assuming he isn't suspended.

 

 

Well yeah... the implied Anger is beceause you think they were disrespected and you think that they're better then they're ranked. Explainig to me why you think they're better does not defuse the idea that you're an angry fan lol. 

 

One of my best friends is a Bengals fan, and my second nearest stadium, so I'm relatively near by. The Bengals is one of the rosters I know the best. Their line is appropriately ranked, IMO, because it will collapse like a cheap sheet if Cordy Glenn gets injured. And last year it was probalby closer to 29/30, so this year's grade is an improvement. 

 

15 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

PHI was top 5 in 2nd and 3rd level yards.  That means when the RB had a 5+ yard run, it went long.  Those are outliers.  It is not representative of how successful a team is on 3 and short and goal line plays.  This list is statistics, not how people feel.

 

So you believe Houston's OLine is better than Philly's? Jc. 

 

10 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

I am NOT USING AN OPINION!!!

 

 

No, you are using an opinion. That's directly where you're wrong. YOU personally BELIEVE that these METRICS are the BEST way to REPRESENT offensive line TALENT. I do not. That has NOTHING to do with the fact taht you're an engineer, or someone who likes math. I will gladly PM you a multitude of links to my Baseball Analytics, which are heavy into metrics, and/or my mathematical projections for 300 Baseball players in each of the last two calendar years. I love metrics. But I do not believe there are nearly as many metrics that sniff the same correlation with on-field success in Football as there are in baseball. As someone who does love and analyzes metrics, I do not consider this Metric as damning as you do. I do trust my eyes more in the sport of Football, because i don't believe the metrics game has caught up to the place it is in Baseball.

 

So again, we can easily disagree. But our disagreement is one of opinion. The fact that you want to hold up a metric sheet does not make it a factual statement. It is still your opinion because it is driectly determined by how much value you put into that specific measurement. I like to look at more physical aspects of the game of football, which is why PFF grades matter more to me than any individual metric. 

 

EDIT: 

 

7 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Angry hater because I like math?

 

Okay?


It was more the tone. If you would've just said "I disagree with this list because of these metrics" i would've never called you a hater. As someone who spends a lot of time producing his own lists in the sport of baseball, I will always defend resources when people from the internet come on and say "Garbage list." That's just me, because I know that a lot of work probably went into that list. So that's why I called you a hater... not because you "liked math." 

Edited by taobball
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40 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

The right side of the line is still bad. Hopefully it won't be atrocious this year.

 

Bad would be an upgrade. I don’t recall ever seeing worse OL play than Bobby Hart. Wheeler should be decent, I like him long term. Omameh may be the “weak link”, which is a great sign compared to last years group. 

 

They should be excellent (especially in run blocking) on the left side. Can’t wait to see Solder/Hernandez clearing paths for Barkley’s long TDs 

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Just now, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

Bad would be an upgrade. I don’t recall ever seeing worse OL play than Bobby Hart. Wheeler should be decent, I like him long term. Omameh may be the “weak link”, which is a great sign compared to last years group. 

 

They should be excellent (especially in run blocking) on the left side. Can’t wait to see Solder/Hernandez clearing paths for Barkley’s long TDs 

 

Again tho the question is if they're criminally underrated. I don't disagree with anything you said, but I don't necessarily know if I actually move teh Giants O-Line up too much. 

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1 hour ago, jmausen said:

 

 

Garbage list based on opinions and surveys.  Use this instead.  Figure out who got better/worse based on free agency and the draft.  The Bengals are a lot better this year.

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Did you really have to quote the first post? As if no one would know what you’re talking about?

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2 hours ago, jmausen said:

 

I am NOT USING AN OPINION!!!

 

PHI was top 5 in 2nd and 3rd level yards.  That means when the RB had a 5+ yard run, it went long.  Those are outliers.  It is not representative of how successful a team is on 3 and short and goal line plays.  This list is statistics, not how people feel.

 

You can have a giant hard on for whomever you want.  I don't give a crap.  I'm an engineer.  Give me numbers without telling me which teams they represent.   That's all I care about!  Use individual PFF rankings to evaluate which teams got better/worse during the offseason.  NE got worse.  NYG got better.  BUF got wrose.  CIN better.  CAR worse. JAX better.  Eagles didn't change.

 

Not to focus on 1 team because that's clearly not your point, but you've mentioned this several times. The Eagles lost a future hall-of-fame LT in Jason Peters in week 7.  They get him back this year.  That's a pretty gargantuan change if you ask me.

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2 hours ago, taobball said:

 

Again tho the question is if they're criminally underrated. I don't disagree with anything you said, but I don't necessarily know if I actually move teh Giants O-Line up too much. 

 

i don't think i've ever used the phrase "criminally underrated" ever ... but they did sign 1 of the best run blocking left tackles in the league and also drafted a guard who's widely regarded as one of the best run blocking prospects in recent memory [google Will Hernandez, that statement has nothing to do with me being a Giants fan]. They should help.

 

As will Barkley ... and a healthy receiving corp ... stay tuned. 

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5 hours ago, taobball said:

 

Again tho the question is if they're criminally underrated. I don't disagree with anything you said, but I don't necessarily know if I actually move teh Giants O-Line up too much. 

 

They are appropriately ranked at this point in time. 

 

There are a whole lot more pass plays than running plays in the NFL these days. 

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Is anyone else scratching their head about the high Broncos rating? I was already interested in Royce Freeman...

 

Also, Lions improved? Hmmm maybe some value for the RB rookie.

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6 minutes ago, seanismorris said:

Is anyone else scratching their head about the high Broncos rating? I was already interested in Royce Freeman...

 

Also, Lions improved? Hmmm maybe some value for the RB rookie.

 

Lions are a great “sleeper OLine” if that were such a thing. I don’t think as many people realize how easily this line could be like a top 5ish unit. 

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9 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

The right side of the line is still bad. Hopefully it won't be atrocious this year.

 

According to McAdoo at least Eli will be able to watch flowers as he gets burned and his man comes free and have time to react as opposed to just being blind side destroyed. 

 

On another note... Texans at 32?

 

Lol. Come on PFF. I've been saying all along they still suck, but the interior is substantially better than last year. 

 

If they were 31 or whatever last year they gotta be in late 20s this year. 

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