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4 hours ago, Corleone said:

Being that he was drafted as a DE, I think that designation will stay for the season. 

 

Mack was originally drafted as an OLB, and played OLB year 1 for the Buffalo Bills. Year 2, he switched to DE and played both positions. 

 

*drafted him in my FFBall Rookie Draft his first year, and he wasn't cutting the mustard as a LB, so I dropped him. Not one of my better moves. He became a LB/DE 2nd year, and then a DE.

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader
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I don't think anyone can say if Mack is lowered or raised because of his new team, not yet. He's a talent, and talent emerges.

 

His designation is important, though, and that might change arriving in Chicago. I saw Olivier Vernon is now designated as an LB/DL (in CBS), and if Mack gets that kind of designation it helps immensely. Stay tuned.

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https://www.fantasysharks.com/idp-chutes-ladders-winners-losers-2018-preseason/

 

"9:40 am 09/01/2018

Gary Davenport

DOWN THE CHUTE

Khalil Mack – DE, Oakland Raiders

I had a lovely write-up all worked out here about Mack missing regular-season games this year. About how the swirling trade rumors around the 2016 NFL Defensive Player of the Year could mean a move to a 3-4 club and the loss of positional eligibility as a defensive lineman. About how IDP dynasty owners had to at least consider the possibility of selling before that happened and his value tanked.

That’s exactly what happened Saturday.

Per John Breech of CBS Sports, the Raiders dealt Mack to the Chicago Bears for a pair of first-round picks. Given how late in the offseason it happened, Mack will likely maintain his DL eligibility on most providers — al though it’s possible My Fantasy League will make a late switch. However, come 2019 many of those same providers will list Mack at the position he’ll be playing — outside linebacker.

This rather sucks, friends."

 

I am glad I started thinking along these lines prior to trading for Kahlil Mack in my Keeper IDP League yesterday :whew:

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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The time to move him has passed, as Khalil Mack is officially designated as a "LB" by the NFL/Chicago: https://www.chicagobears.com/team/depth-chart

"OLB

Khalil Mack"  Now all one can do is sit and hope his LB numbers are less like they were his 1st season in Oakland where he put up a meager 59solos/16assists/4sacks as strictly a "LB," and more like his 2nd season where he put up 15sacks playing both LB/DE.

 

 

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If I need to pick up a flex from Derwin James, Jatavis Brown, Raekwon McMillian, Malcolm Smith (have Reuben Foster suspended), and Rashaan Evans (injured?), who should I grab? Yahoo pumped up the projected points from James/Brown in particular and James is being added heavily in Yahoo leagues. 

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Anyone know the best IDP on Saints? In our league we start an IDP from our team D...

I know the LBs are set to be SAM-Davis, MIKE-Te'o with Klein and Anzalone mixing in WILL...

But I am thinking since Te'o is bad in coverage, he will leave the field on 3rd D and nickel/dime and Davis then calls the plays from middle??

Not positive on all that, but seems like Davis is the IDP to grab? Being they rotate their safties...

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I think the fear over Mack's value tanking is a bit overblown. He's in a better scheme/system now, with a DC who will make the most of his talents. 


DL is more scarce, so he may go from being a top 3 DL to a top 10-15 LB, but he will still be elite and he'll still have the ability to win you weeks. 


If your scoring leans towards big-play (instead of tackle-heavy) then he should still outscore most LBs. 

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32 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

I think the fear over Mack's value tanking is a bit overblown. He's in a better scheme/system now, with a DC who will make the most of his talents. 


DL is more scarce, so he may go from being a top 3 DL to a top 10-15 LB, but he will still be elite and he'll still have the ability to win you weeks. 


If your scoring leans towards big-play (instead of tackle-heavy) then he should still outscore most LBs. 

Disclaimer: yes individual league scoring matters

 

His tackle opportunities are NOT going to go up playing OLB/lining up next to DTrevathan/RSmith/Floyd, and a better all around DST. Big difference in a LB putting up 50-60 tackles + 10 sacks vs a DE with the same stats. He just joined a log jam of mediocrity at LB. He may impact the actual game, but FFBAll wise, he is more of a spot play with a few splash weeks. 60 tackles won't fly for a starting LB...Mack will have to put up 15+ sacks to even be worthy of starting at LB in most formats, and even then with only 60ish tackles he'll be on the lower side.

 

60 tackles was HUGE for a DL...60 tackles which Mack got playing as an off the ball OLB/DL with a "DE" designation. That was what made Mack valuable.

 

*see Von Miller, the #34 ranked LB in IDP last season :yawn: What's happening to Mack is the same reason everyone bemoaned Chubb going to Denver and being labeled a "LB".

 

Mack no longer has the value in FFBall he had as a DE.

 

ps: you snooze you lose

 

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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1 hour ago, joed0 said:

If I need to pick up a flex from Derwin James, Jatavis Brown, Raekwon McMillian, Malcolm Smith (have Reuben Foster suspended), and Rashaan Evans (injured?), who should I grab? Yahoo pumped up the projected points from James/Brown in particular and James is being added heavily in Yahoo leagues. 

 

I believe LB Fred Warner is the one playing in place of suspended Rueben Foster, and I am not sure Malcolm Smith is 100% yet. My hope is Warner kicks Smith to the curb when Foster comes back. So, if yer just looking for a play in place of Foster, take a look at Warner. Otherwise...IMHO LB JBrown LAC

 

 

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9 minutes ago, FollowTheLeader said:

Disclaimer: yes individual league scoring matters

 

His tackle opportunities are NOT going to go up playing OLB/lining up next to DTrevathan/RSmith/Floyd, and a better all around DST. Big difference in a LB putting up 50-60 tackles + 10 sacks vs a DE with the same stats. He just joined a log jam of mediocrity at LB. He may impact the actual game, but FFBAll wise, he is more of a spot play with a few splash weeks. 60 tackles won't fly for a starting LB...Mack will have to put up 15+ sacks to even be worthy of starting at LB in most formats, and even then with only 60ish tackles he'll be on the lower side.

 

60 tackles was HUGE for a DL...60 tackles which Mack got playing as an off the ball OLB/DL with a "DE" designation. That was what made Mack valuable.

 

*see Von Miller, the #34 ranked LB in IDP last season :yawn: What's happening to Mack is the same reason everyone bemoaned Chubb going to Denver and being labeled a "LB".

 

Mack no longer has the value in FFBall he had as a DE.

 

ps: you snooze you lose

 

 

 

P.S. your scoring sounds lame. But yeah, obviously individual league scoring matters. Mack has been a top 10-15 overall IDP in my format regardless of whether his hand was in the dirt or he was standing up rushing off the edge. 

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49 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

Anyone know the best IDP on Saints? In our league we start an IDP from our team D...

I know the LBs are set to be SAM-Davis, MIKE-Te'o with Klein and Anzalone mixing in WILL...

But I am thinking since Te'o is bad in coverage, he will leave the field on 3rd D and nickel/dime and Davis then calls the plays from middle??

Not positive on all that, but seems like Davis is the IDP to grab? Being they rotate their safties...

 

0urlads.com AND nfl.com have LB Demario Davis starting at the WLB. So, Davis should be good to go. IF Davis were playing the SLB I'd avoid, but he seems legit for the WLB :thumbs-up:

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31 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

 

P.S. your scoring sounds lame. But yeah, obviously individual league scoring matters.

 

My "scoring sounds lame"...?  No where in my post did I outline our league scoring, so what are you even basing that on? Or, are you just being rude because I don't agree with you :rolleyes:

 

Our league scoring is actually quite detailed, years in the making, and parallels many other respectful IDP league scoring set-ups.

 

31 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

 

Mack has been a top 10-15 overall IDP in my format regardless of whether his hand was in the dirt or he was standing up rushing off the edge. 

 

I call complete B.S. and/or someone should have maybe performed a bit of research before making such a claim. Did you simply forget about, or purposefully exclude years 1 and 2? Where did Mack rank year one and two, I'll wait until you find that top 15 overall IDP ranking...guessing I'll be here for quite some time.

 

My league wouldn't load 2014 rankings, but they were worse than his 2nd year (see below). Year 1 2014:: Stats: 59 solos/16 a**/1 FF/4 sacks/3 PD

Year 2 2015: Mack was the 16th ranked LB (playing both LB/DE), and the 30th overall IDP. Stats: 57 solos/ 20 a**/2 FF/15 sacks/2 PD

Neither one of the above stat lines equate to a top 10-15 IDP, unless you are only scoring big plays and sacks, and if that's the case, you aren't playing in a respectful IDP league, sorry...not sorry.

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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1 hour ago, FollowTheLeader said:

 

I believe LB Fred Warner is the one playing in place of suspended Rueben Foster, and I am not sure Malcolm Smith is 100% yet. My hope is Warner kicks Smith to the curb when Foster comes back. So, if yer just looking for a play in place of Foster, take a look at Warner. Otherwise...IMHO LB JBrown LAC

 

 

Any concern about Kyzir White starting over Brown in preseason? Worried that Brown will lose a lot of snaps.

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19 minutes ago, joed0 said:

Any concern about Kyzir White starting over Brown in preseason? Worried that Brown will lose a lot of snaps.

 

Great catch, not sure why I was typing JBrown while having Denzel Perryman on my mind. Perrman is the safe play. Sorry about Brown.  Not sure who from your other choices; are those listed your only options?

 

McMillian vs the TEN run game might see a lot of tackle opportunity. Again, Smith is a good play...if healthy. :shrug:

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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14 minutes ago, FollowTheLeader said:

 

Great catch, not sure why I was typing JBrown while having Denzel Perryman on my mind. Perrman is the safe play. Sorry about Brown.  Not sure who from your other choices; are those listed your only options?

 

McMillian vs the TEN run game might see a lot of tackle opportunity. Again, Smith is a good play...if healthy. :shrug:

McMillian, Milano, Malcolm Smith, Mason Foster, Cory Littleton, Rashaan Evans, Brown, and Kyzir White at LB; Derwin James, Tartt, and MacDougald at S.

 

I was thinking McMillian, but did see James had a great preseason and was named a starter by the coach. James seems like a big play safety.

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9 minutes ago, joed0 said:

McMillian, Milano, Malcolm Smith, Mason Foster, Cory Littleton, Rashaan Evans, Brown, and Kyzir White at LB; Derwin James, Tartt, and MacDougald at S.

 

I was thinking McMillian, but did see James had a great preseason and was named a starter by the coach. James seems like a big play safety.

 

Are you looking for a 1-2 week filler, or possible year long starter?

 

I am a big fan of CLittleton winning  (which he has done up to today), manning the ILB spot opposite Barron, and playing behind those awesome DTs B) *so this would be my first play as it could reward you with a season long LB2+.

 

Milano is a sneaky good play, as he and Edmunds should gobble up the tackles, while their DBs make big plays on the back-end.

 

Mason Foster is a good play too, but he does fall prey to injuries, and LB Brown kind of caps Foster.

 

...and then MCMillian.

 

I also like McDougald at S, but I'd start a LB over most S's. RE: James....just not sure what to expect on the back-end in LAC, and Addae is still there, and a decent player. I'd rank McDougald atop the DBs you've provided.

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Ideally year long... I own Barron so is it less ideal to start 2 LBs from the same team?

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1 hour ago, FollowTheLeader said:

 

Are you looking for a 1-2 week filler, or possible year long starter?

 

I am a big fan of CLittleton winning  (which he has done up to today), manning the ILB spot opposite Barron, and playing behind those awesome DTs B) *so this would be my first play as it could reward you with a season long LB2+.

 

Milano is a sneaky good play, as he and Edmunds should gobble up the tackles, while their DBs make big plays on the back-end.

 

Mason Foster is a good play too, but he does fall prey to injuries, and LB Brown kind of caps Foster.

 

...and then MCMillian.

 

I also like McDougald at S, but I'd start a LB over most S's. RE: James....just not sure what to expect on the back-end in LAC, and Addae is still there, and a decent player. I'd rank McDougald atop the DBs you've provided.

 

Ideally year long... I own Barron so is it less ideal to start 2 LBs from the same team?

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So, in all, are you looking for a 2 week replacement for RFoster, as well as another IDP to start elsewhere? 2 IDPs...?

 

What’s your IDP roster, and what are IDP lineup requirements? 

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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6 minutes ago, FollowTheLeader said:

So, in all, are you looking for a 2 week replacement for RFoster, as well as another IDP to start elsewhere? 2 IDPs...?

 

What’s your IDP roster, and what are IDP lineup requirements? 

 

D Flex- empty

DB-Collins, Sean Davis

LB-Kirksey, Barron, Trevathan

DL-Griffen, Clark

Bench-Reuben Foster

 

I have to drop someone on offense for a flex. Scoring is somewhat skewed to big plays (e.g., sacks, INTs are 5.5, solo tackles and pass defensed 1.25, assists .75). I don't necessarily need a season long IDP but I would rather find someone for the season with injuries.

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7 hours ago, FollowTheLeader said:

 

...unless you are only scoring big plays and sacks, and if that's the case, you aren't playing in a respectful IDP league, sorry...not sorry.

 

 

Yes, my scoring format is what I would consider "big play scoring," and I could tells yours was not by the way you dismissed Mack's value. 

 

I think, personally, your scoring is lame/boring. You think mine is not "respectful" (I think you were going for respectable?). We can agree to disagree, but of course the entire point of my original post (which did not quote you and wasn't even directed at you specifically) was to say that not all scoring formats are built around the solo tackle, so Mack doesn't *necessarily* lose all value because of a position switch. You have since spouted stats and rankings based on only YOUR scoring system, acting like that is the be all and end all. If players like Khalil Mack are *only* valuable if they are designated DL, then I would argue that your scoring is not doing a good job of making the best and most disruptive defensive players valuable enough. You don't have to agree, but I think a lot of IDP diehards do and cater their rankings/advice so that they at least account for big-play scoring. 

 

Also, I'm not sure you should go all the way back to Mack's rookie year to come up with a projection for what he might do this year in Chicago. I followed him as a rookie, and he was a very promising player who consistently graded out well by PFF and the like, but it was going into his second year in the league when the coaching staff decided to let him do what he does best: pin his ears back and rush the passer.There was a strong sense that Mack had only begun to scratch the surface as a rookie, and that his future was very bright. From that point forward he has been an absolute monster in my IDP league, whether he was technically playing OLB or DE. 

 

I can't easily pull 2015 stats/rankings in my league, but he was #7 overall IDP in my league in 2016, and his 2015 stats look slightly more impressive, so I'm comfortable declaring that he was top 5 in 2015. 

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8 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

 

We can agree to disagree, but of course the entire point of my original post (which did not quote you and wasn't even directed at you specifically)

 

...you are contradicting yourself, as you literally DID quote me, and followed it up with your statement, so therefore you did direct your statement at me specifically. Just own it dude :rolleyes:

 

8 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

 

You have since spouted stats and rankings based on only YOUR scoring system, acting like that is the be all and end all.

Also, I'm not sure you should go all the way back to Mack's rookie year

 

Which I did not do until I was making a comparison, and using the numbers to address your claim that Mack has always been a top 10-15 IDP. I not only posted his rank based on my scoring, but I also provided his stats so other folks may run the numbers regarding their leagues, and see where he stacked up.

 

You stated, "Mack has been a top 10-15 overall IDP in my format regardless of whether his hand was in the dirt or he was standing up rushing off the edge." So, I posted his year 1 (especially), and year 2 numbers to show that your statement is false. Him only being in the league 4 years, makes 1-2 years of deviation from your claim quite significant.

 

8 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

 

I think a lot of IDP diehards do and cater their rankings/advice so that they at least account for big-play scoring. 

 

Until you came along and made it personal, I had done a fine job of discussing "Mack" by using stats, real football analysis (position designation/surrounding player personnel and talent), and posting an "expert" opinion from an IDP website that parallels my own (while having nothing to do with my league's scoring parameters.)

 

"Gary Davenport

DOWN THE CHUTE

Khalil Mack – DE, Oakland Raiders

I had a lovely write-up all worked out here about Mack missing regular-season games this year. About how the swirling trade rumors around the 2016 NFL Defensive Player of the Year could mean a move to a 3-4 club and the loss of positional eligibility as a defensive lineman. About how IDP dynasty owners had to at least consider the possibility of selling before that happened and his value tanked.

That’s exactly what happened Saturday.

Per John Breech of CBS Sports, the Raiders dealt Mack to the Chicago Bears for a pair of first-round picks. Given how late in the offseason it happened, Mack will likely maintain his DL eligibility on most providers — al though it’s possible My Fantasy League will make a late switch. However, come 2019 many of those same providers will list Mack at the position he’ll be playing — outside linebacker.

This rather sucks, friends."

 

One point I had been making (when you jumped in if I am not mistaken), was the time to trade him for top $ has passed, because many (like me) feel there is a downward trend on the horizon. So now, it's time to sit, wait, and cross your fingers he produces at a high level. IMHO there are enough of us of the same mindset that opinion this is spot on.

 

On a side note, Myfantasyleague seems to be in line with what I am thinking as they have lowered his projections from last years actual stats (61solos/17a/1FR/1FF/10.5sacks/2PD) to: 40solos/15a/1FR/2FR/5sacks/0PD  <--this equates to Kahlil Mack being projected as the 65th ranked LB.

His impact on the actual football field may not translate to the fantasy stat sheet. *much like some QBs are terrible in real life, but great in fantasy, this could be the opposite, which does have a precedent in IDP FFBall, see OLB Von Miller.

 

I have said, individual league scoring matters, so:

Rules for DT, DE, LB, CB, S

Event

Range (Low-High)

Points

 

Fumble Recoveries (from Opponent)

0-10

4 points each

 

Forced Fumbles

0-10

3 points each

 

Passes Defensed

0-99

2 points each

 

Blocked Field Goals

0-10

4 points each

 

Blocked Punts

0-10

4 points each

 

Safeties

0-10

2 points each

 

Number of Defensive TDs

0-10

6 points each

 

 

Rules for DT, DE

Event

Range (Low-High)

Points

 

Interceptions Caught

0-10

8 points each

 

Defensive Tackles

0-99

3 points each

 

Defensive Assists

0-99

1.5 points each

 

Sacked a QB

0-25

5 points each

 

 

Rules for LB

Event

Range (Low-High)

Points

 

Interceptions Caught

0-10

6 points each

 

Defensive Tackles

0-99

2 points each

 

Defensive Assists

0-99

1 point each

 

Sacked a QB

0-25

5 points each

 

 

Rules for CB, S

Event

Range (Low-High)

Points

 

Interceptions Caught

0-10

6 points each

 

Defensive Tackles

0-99

2 points each

 

Defensive Assists

0-99

1 point each

 

Sacked a QB

0-25

7 points each

 

 

As you can see, I think we do a fine job of not just relaying on "tackles," and accounting for big plays, while addressing defensive responsibilities on a weighted/tier/scale between positions, and also capturing the essence of impact on a play-play basis.

 

...and with that, let's put this topic to rest, and move on to other IDP issues...

 

 

 

Edited by FollowTheLeader

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12 hours ago, joed0 said:

 

Ideally year long... I own Barron so is it less ideal to start 2 LBs from the same team?

 

I could see where one would want to avoid trying to roster two LBs from the same team, but if two producers from the same team fall in your lap, not sure you should pass. *not referring to the players we are discussing, just in general.

 

From your list, I like (take it with a grain of salt of course):

CLittleton (understand he is an unknown, but Ogletree did score on par with Barron last season in that same position)

FWarner (should definitely give you 2 weeks, but beyond that is a ?)

MMilano (DST will be on the field a lot)

RMcMillian

MFoster

 

and BMcDougald at S

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23 minutes ago, FollowTheLeader said:

 

I could see where one would want to avoid trying to roster two LBs from the same team, but if two producers from the same team fall in your lap, not sure you should pass. *not referring to the players we are discussing, just in general.

 

From your list, I like (take it with a grain of salt of course):

CLittleton (understand he is an unknown, but Ogletree did score on par with Barron last season in that same position)

FWarner (should definitely give you 2 weeks, but beyond that is a ?)

MMilano (DST will be on the field a lot)

RMcMillian

MFoster

 

and BMcDougald at S

Thanks!

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Who do you guys like between Budda Baker and Adrian Amos? 

 

Hard to get decent IDP advice anywhere (such a shame)

 

Reports have it that Baker will be moving around the formation - possibly starting at SS during the Cardinals base 4-3. Then moving to the nickel during obvious passing situations.

 

then there is Adrain Amos ... strong performer last year, now getting more room to roam with Mack pressuring QB’s into bad decisions - 

 

my heart wants Budda ... but my head says Amos is the guy

 

can anyone help?

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