PolarBear

Leonard Fournette vs Melvin Gordon Debate

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Throughout the pre-season, I will drop a couple of player debate topics in for us to argue for and against based on their relatively close ADP's. Starting in the back of the 1st round today!

 

Starting at the top of the draft you obviously can't go wrong with the big 4 and AB.  After that I think is where things get a little more cloudy.  Two young stud running backs going within 2-3 picks of each other (according to FFC) are the Chargers, Melvin Gordon and the Jags Leonard Fournette.  

 

Personally, I am on the Fournette wagon.  I believe he is on a better team that will be playing with the lead more and has a better O-line.  The addition of Norwell could be huge for him. Fournette is also a more talented runner in every way.  The marks against him are past injury concerns and work in the passing game however, I think he will make up for that deficit with a big year on the ground. 

 

Make your argument for which one should be drafted before the other!

 

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Gordon.  Better QB, who loves checking down his RB's, and the Chargers offense is a hell of a lot better and more balanced.  I think Gordon will have far more TD opportunities than Fournette as well.  Plus, Coach Lynn is a RB whisperer and will always gameplan around the run game.

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5 minutes ago, kdko said:

Gordon.  Better QB, who loves checking down his RB's, and the Chargers offense is a hell of a lot better and more balanced.  I think Gordon will have far more TD opportunities than Fournette as well.  Plus, Coach Lynn is a RB whisperer and will always gameplan around the run game.

It's not though.

 

Jaguars offense - 26.1 ppg, 365.9 ypg 

 

Chargers offense - 22.2 ppg, 376.6 ypg 

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The volume for Leonard Fournette will be much higher. Great defense, average at best quarterback and unproven WR’s. To me he’s a gamble on health and only health. He’s going to take a lot of hits. It would be an in the moment decision for me but if I knew Fournette will be healthy all year I’m taking him. 

Edited by izzyf89

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3 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

It's not though.

 

Jaguars offense - 26.1 ppg, 365.9 ypg 

 

Chargers offense - 22.2 ppg, 376.6 ypg 

 

Yes, they are.  

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Just now, kdko said:

 

Yes, they are.  

You're right, opinions are always better than facts.

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2 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

You're right, opinions are always better than facts.

 

Living in 2018 buddy.  Who are the Jags QB and WR's again?

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22 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Living in 2018 buddy.  Who are the Jags QB and WR's again?

What are you talking about?

 

First of all I think you mean I'm living in 2017, I would sure hope I'm living in 2018.

 

Second of all the Chargers lost Hunter Henry and Antonio Gates.  They added Forrest Lamp and Justin Jackson ?

 

The Jaguars lost Allen Hurns and Marcedes Lewis.  ?  They added Andrew Norwell, Donte Moncrief, Austin Seferian-Jenkins, and DJ Chark.  ?

 

How can you talk sh*t about the Jaguars QB and WR's even though as an offense the Chargers scored less points than the Jaguars in 2017?

 

 

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5 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

What are you talking about?

 

First of all I think you mean I'm living in 2017, I would sure hope I'm living in 2018.

 

Second of all the Chargers lost Hunter Henry and Antonio Gates.  They added Forrest Lamp and Justin Jackson ?

 

The Jaguars lost Allen Hurns and Marcedes Lewis.  ?  They added Andrew Norwell, Donte Moncrief, Austin Seferian-Jenkins, and DJ Chark.  ?

 

How can you talk sh*t about the Jaguars QB and WR's even though as an offense the Chargers scored less points than the Jaguars in 2017?

 

 

Ownage

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I am a little concerned about Austin Eckler. With Henry out, they may use him more and since MG’s ypc doesn’t exactly light the world on fire it could become a real problem as the season goes on. 

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There are a lot of points you could make that would make the Gordon and Fournette debate close; however, the Chargers having a better offense than the Jaguars is not one of them. Blake Bortles showed a lot of improvement last year, and it's easy enough to predict he takes another step forward this year. It might not be a massive step or a jump, but it doesn't need to be for this offense to be good. 

 

With the addition of Andrew Norwell, there's no way the Jaguars OLine is worse than the Chargers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Chargers are paying a group of turnstyles in the trenches. Just using a quick source, Yahoo recently had someone rank offensive lines. The Jaguars were ranked at 10, while the Chargers were down at 27. 

 

Tight ends, again, I'll take Jacksonville. This is a different story if Hunter Henry is healthy, but he's not.

 

For wide receivers, obviously Jacksonville has no one with the ability of Keenan Allen. After him, however, there's not a lot that sets the two teams apart. Mike Williams has a lot of talent, but is as raw as anyone on Jacksonville. Top end talent, sure the Chargers have the advantage. In terms of depth? Not so different. 

 

As for Gordon and Fournette, they're both similar. Big workloads, goal line touches, not a ton of receptions. Fournette is easily the more talented runner between the two, AND will have better blocking. Gordon will get the advantage in the injury department, but everyone is durable until they're not. Gordon also has the better receiving chops, but Fournette wasn't a complete loss there. The poster above me brought up Austin Eckler in regards to Gordon- I'm not super concerned about Eckler, and in the same breath Fournette has Yeldon and Corey Grant behind him to take passing work. Fournette also plays for the better team with a better defense, leading to clocks to run out and better opportunity. 

 

Again, they're very close. For me, I'll go with the better talent and better situation in Fournette.

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7 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

What are you talking about?

 

First of all I think you mean I'm living in 2017, I would sure hope I'm living in 2018.

 

Second of all the Chargers lost Hunter Henry and Antonio Gates.  They added Forrest Lamp and Justin Jackson ?

 

The Jaguars lost Allen Hurns and Marcedes Lewis.  ?  They added Andrew Norwell, Donte Moncrief, Austin Seferian-Jenkins, and DJ Chark.  ?

 

How can you talk sh*t about the Jaguars QB and WR's even though as an offense the Chargers scored less points than the Jaguars in 2017?

 

 

 

The Jags are better only if their best WR (Cole) gets starter's snaps.

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It matters

 

Norwell was first-team All-Pro and, per Pro Football Focus, the only offensive lineman who did not allow a quarterback sack or hit in 2017. He was the top offensive lineman available and addressed the offense's biggest weakness: the interior of the line.

What it means: The left side of the offensive line is potentially one of the best in the league. Norwell slides in as the starter at left guard between second-year left tackle Cam Robinson and center Brandon Linder. When the Jaguars need some tough yards, they'll undoubtedly run Leonard Fournette behind that side of the line. Norwell helped the Panthers finish fourth, 10th, and second in the NFL in rushing the past three seasons and will be a huge upgrade over Patrick Omameh.

What's the risk: There really isn't one. Norwell has proved to be a durable player. He has missed only three games in the past three seasons. Though the Jaguars are making him the highest-paid guard in the NFL ($13.3 million), the team nearly always structures contracts so the guaranteed money is paid out in the first two years. The team had only $13.7 million in guaranteed money on the books for 2019 before this signing, so there should be no salary-cap issues.

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27 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

The Jags are better only if their best WR (Cole) gets starter's snaps.

Marrone is too much of a moron to realize this.

 

Mularkey 2.0

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Interesting question.  These two are really pretty even.

 

In the mocks I've done so far, I've found myself leaning toward Gordon when I've had the choice.   I think I just trust Rivers and the Chargers offense more than I trust Bortles and the Jags.  I also don't know if I trust Fournette's durability with those foot issues that have been lingering.  And I guess I also feel like Gordon is more of a dual threat.  I could see the Jags really looking to get Fournette off the field in passing downs to try and preserve him.

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4 minutes ago, tts42572 said:

Interesting question.  These two are really pretty even.

 

In the mocks I've done so far, I've found myself leaning toward Gordon when I've had the choice.   I think I just trust Rivers and the Chargers offense more than I trust Bortles and the Jags.  I also don't know if I trust Fournette's durability with those foot issues that have been lingering.  And I guess I also feel like Gordon is more of a dual threat.  I could see the Jags really looking to get Fournette off the field in passing downs to try and preserve him.

This.

 

Dont trust Jaguars offense. Taking Gordon all day

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The only concern with Fournette is injuries but Melvin Gordon isn’t exactly the model of health either. Torn meniscus in his rookie year and then a sprained PCL in the same knee in 2016. He also was frequently banged up last year and looked a bit worn out at times. 

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I really liked seeing that Fournette reported at 223 or whatever it was, down around 15 lbs less than he played at in 2017.  

 

When Lev Bell did that a few years ago, he really skyrocketed as a player.  A bit less weight means more stamina, probably better cardio, less pressure on the joints, a bit more wiggle.

 

Melvin Gordon has always seemed like an okay player who gets by on massive volume, including red zone receptions. 

 

I am going Fournette all day if it is a choice between these two. 

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3 hours ago, BigBenTheSteelerMan said:

Ill take Gordon due to Leonard's injury risks. Last season it seemed he was questionable every week

Yet he finished as the #8 RB despite missing 3 games.

 

Gordon missed 2 games in 2015 and 3 games 2016.

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If anything's scares me it's 3 straight years of inefficiency.  Does Jackson eat into his carries if it continues?

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I feel like they are both injury risks!  I'd stay away from both.  SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER ME, WHY CAN I NOT CREATE A THREAD ON THIS SITE?!?!?!? JUST SIGNED UP.  WHAT AM I MISSING?????????

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2 minutes ago, AlexxelA said:

I feel like they are both injury risks!  I'd stay away from both.  SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER ME, WHY CAN I NOT CREATE A THREAD ON THIS SITE?!?!?!? JUST SIGNED UP.  WHAT AM I MISSING?????????

I believe you need 10 posts. 

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9 minutes ago, AlexxelA said:

I feel like they are both injury risks!  I'd stay away from both.  SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER ME, WHY CAN I NOT CREATE A THREAD ON THIS SITE?!?!?!? JUST SIGNED UP.  WHAT AM I MISSING?????????

I believe you need to read the sticky.

http://forums.rotoworld.com/topic/678010-notice-new-member-cant-post-here-read-this/

Edited by Boudewijn

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21 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

It's not though.

 

Jaguars offense - 26.1 ppg, 365.9 ypg 

 

Chargers offense - 22.2 ppg, 376.6 ypg 

Just wondering how much of the scoring is due to the tough defense the Jags had? I still feel like the Chargers have a better overall offense. Those numbers are surprising though. 

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