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Leonard Fournette vs Melvin Gordon Debate

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38 minutes ago, Taxman said:

Just wondering how much of the scoring is due to the tough defense the Jags had? I still feel like the Chargers have a better overall offense. Those numbers are surprising though. 

Jaguars had 4 more defensive TD’s & & 10 more FG’s than the Chargers had. Chargers offense actually responsible for better ppg...17.0 - 16.8

And since I only play auctions, I won’t mind just taking both ?

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1 hour ago, Taxman said:

Just wondering how much of the scoring is due to the tough defense the Jags had? I still feel like the Chargers have a better overall offense. Those numbers are surprising though. 

 

41 minutes ago, lvsaint429 said:

Jaguars had 4 more defensive TD’s & & 10 more FG’s than the Chargers had. Chargers offense actually responsible for better ppg...17.0 - 16.8

And since I only play auctions, I won’t mind just taking both ?

I actually wasn't even saying the Jaguars offense was better.  Someone said the Chargers offense was "a hell of a lot better", and I was proving that to be false.  They were only separated by 10 yards per game. 

 

The Chargers were obviously better in the passing game and the Jaguars were obviously better in the running game.  The Jaguars were actually a top-6 overall offense but nobody likes to admit that because Bortles is the quarterback.  As a team the Chargers average 3.8 ypc and had a total of 10 rushing TD's.  Not very good.

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In ppr I would go Gordon,  Standard Fournette.  But they are so close in both formats its just personal preference.  I will say if you tell me Fournette stays healthy(with no ankle issues slowing him down) for 16 games I take him easy in both formats.  Problem is he always seems to get nicked up.

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I've been just kind of blindly taking Gordon over Fournette since he is often higher ranked in PPR but now that I think about it I may give slight edge. In non-PPR I think Fournette is clearly ahead however in PPR its much closer since Gordon gets double the targets that Fournette gets. This likely leads to more week to week consistency for Gordon since its not as heavily weighted by TDs and Gordon may see more targets/catches with Hunter out. He also will see more stacked boxes and not as many scoring opportunities likely as a result which will put pressure on his already sub par efficiency.  Fournette only being in his 2nd year (we saw the jump Gordon made) gives him some room to grow and improve on his poor YPC which really went down as the season wore on (likely a combo of fatigue and injury). Bortles trending up could give him more room to run as well. I don't really hold the injuries against Fournette since Gordon has missed time as well and injuries are tough to predict especially for the RB position where top guys go down with regularity.

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5 hours ago, Jaw1 said:

In non-PPR I think Fournette is clearly ahead however in PPR its much closer since Gordon gets double the targets that Fournette gets.

No.

 

Gordon had 83

Fournette had 48 in 13 games which extrapolates to 59 in 16 games.

 

Also Gordon had 57 targets in 2016 and 37 in 2015.  No guarantee his target rate stays the same as it did in 2017.  Especially since they have Austin Ekeler and now Justin Jackson who can both catch.

Edited by RMJ_12

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5 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

 

Fournette had 48 in 13 games which extrapolates to 59 in 16 games.

 

Also Gordon had 57 targets in 2016 and 37 in 2015.  No guarantee his target rate stays the same as it did in 2017.  Especially since they have Austin Ekeler and now Justin Jackson who can both catch.

Well if your going to extrapolates Fournettes rec over 16 games.  Then why not do the same for Gordon in 15 and 16?

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16 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Well if your going to extrapolates Fournettes rec over 16 games.  Then why not do the same for Gordon in 15 and 16?

I didn't notice he missed a few games, but I also think there's a reason they brought in Justin Jackson.  Which would be mostly 3rd down work.

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On 7/30/2018 at 12:17 AM, RMJ_12 said:

It's not though.

 

Jaguars offense - 26.1 ppg, 365.9 ypg 

 

Chargers offense - 22.2 ppg, 376.6 ypg 

That’s a great stat and all but everyone and their moms know that chargers have a better O even without HH

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6 minutes ago, Panthers8912 said:

That’s a great stat and all but everyone and their moms know that chargers have a better O even without HH

Again nobody said they weren't better.  I was proving that it's not as big of a gap as most think.  Especially the user I was replying to.

 

But again, the Chargers may have a better offense but they definitely aren't better at running the ball and we are talking about 2 RB's here.

Edited by RMJ_12
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5 minutes ago, Panthers8912 said:

That’s a great stat and all but everyone and their moms know that chargers have a better O even without HH

I don't want to say anything bad about your mom, but I am actually a big fan of verifying the things that "everyone knows" with some basic stats. It sometimes leads to interesting results.

Edited by Boudewijn
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4 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

Fournette is a better player. Gordon is safer.

I don't see how Gordon is safer at all.  He's been inefficient for 3 straight years.  How long does he keep getting away with it?  Fournette has guaranteed volume on the most run heavy team in the league.  That's safe.

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7 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

I don't see how Gordon is safer at all.  He's been inefficient for 3 straight years.  How long does he keep getting away with it?  Fournette has guaranteed volume on the most run heavy team in the league.  That's safe.

I agree that that Gordon isn't really safer (I think he has a higher receiving floor which gives him a slight boost in PPR but that may be canceled out or better by Fournette's carries lead). However, Fournette didn't set the world ablaze in his first year efficiency wise and had a similar 3.9 ypc that Gordon had. Granted I do think there is more optimism that Fournette improves in this regard since nagging injuries played a role in his ypc which declined significantly as season went on (although similar excuse can be made for Gordon who often is playing through something), he is entering his second year (Gordon had a big efficiency jump after his rookie year, Fournette seems to be a more gifted runner, and Bortles should garner a little more respect so maybe he won't see as many stacked boxes. 

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28 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

Fournette is a better player. Gordon is safer.

 

I agree with this statement. I think Fournette is the one more likely to have a crazy good season that can carry you to a championship but I also feel like there's more of a chance he'll miss 4 games and screw you out of the production of a high pick. I've only had to make this choice in one draft this season and I went with Fournette.

 

Here's some basic rankings for the two offenses. They're both fairly close with the Chargers more pass happy and the Jags being far more reliant on the run (no surprises there). I don't think any of these are surprising but overall the offenses are fairly close to each other. I'm not sure how you can look at the numbers and say "whatever...everybody KNOWS the Chargers had a much better offense". That's clearly not the case. It's just that the Jax offense has that Blake Bortles grime all over it. 

 

From ESPN

 

Yards Per Game

Chargers: 376.6

Jags: 365.9

 

Passing Yards Per Game

Chargers: 276.9

Jags: 224.6

 

Rushing Yards Per Game

Chargers: 99.7

Jags: 141.4

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1 hour ago, Jaw1 said:

I agree that that Gordon isn't really safer (I think he has a higher receiving floor which gives him a slight boost in PPR but that may be canceled out or better by Fournette's carries lead). However, Fournette didn't set the world ablaze in his first year efficiency wise and had a similar 3.9 ypc that Gordon had. Granted I do think there is more optimism that Fournette improves in this regard since nagging injuries played a role in his ypc which declined significantly as season went on (although similar excuse can be made for Gordon who often is playing through something), he is entering his second year (Gordon had a big efficiency jump after his rookie year, Fournette seems to be a more gifted runner, and Bortles should garner a little more respect so maybe he won't see as many stacked boxes. 

 

I meant safer in regards to injury mainly. Don't trust Fournette's foot.

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On 7/30/2018 at 7:26 AM, joshua18 said:

 

The Jags are better only if their best WR (Cole) gets starter's snaps.

Big advocate of cole here as well

 

Id take fournette over gordon

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20 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

Yet he finished as the #8 RB despite missing 3 games.

 

Gordon missed 2 games in 2015 and 3 games 2016.

Not at all taking away from leonard, he's a beast. But it doesn't seem too promising when you have a rookie rb seemingly riddled with injuries 

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People shouldn't be able to comment on a question regarding a player on their favorite team lol. The bias ruins most fans' perception

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1 minute ago, bhawks489 said:

How many years canyou have sub 4 ypc and remain the starter? 

who else would start? Jackson? Don't think Ekeler is a 3 down back even though I like him. I really can't see them benching melvin

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44 minutes ago, BigMarz said:

People shouldn't be able to comment on a question regarding a player on their favorite team lol. The bias ruins most fans' perception

I don't let my bias get in the way of my fantasy analysis.  Fournette is my #6 RB, not #1.

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If I am drafting Fournette, I am hoping to be getting CMC on the turn.  If I am drafting Gordon, I am hoping to be getting JoHo on the turn.  If I am drafting CMC in the first, I am drafting JoHo in the second.  If I have to draft JoHo in the first!!!....I am drafting Mixon in the second.   Hopefully it is one of the first two situations. 

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On 7/31/2018 at 4:45 PM, BigBenTheSteelerMan said:

Not at all taking away from leonard, he's a beast. But it doesn't seem too promising when you have a rookie rb seemingly riddled with injuries 

Fournette got hurt twice in 3 years of college and once in his rookie season.

 

The comment you replied to mentioned how Gordon missed 2 games as a rookie and 3 games in 2016.  What's the difference?

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2 hours ago, BigMarz said:

People shouldn't be able to comment on a question regarding a player on their favorite team lol. The bias ruins most fans' perception

 

Actually, I tend to give a bit more weight to the opinion of a fan of a particular team regarding a player on that team (especially in this forum of honesty and integrity). 

 

Knowledgeable fans of a team know the ins and outs of that team, they watch games start to finish, they notice when a player doesn't look right or when they improve a particular aspect of their game. 

 

I don't think most posters come in here and wave pom poms for their favorite players (at least when its a deep delve like this thread). There may be some fun trash talk, but generally a fan in here will honestly tell you when a player on their team  sucks or if they're someone to watch.

 

 

(Cue rebuttal posts of irrational biased opinions of derrick henry (et al) in 3.......2.......1......)

 

Edited by candygram4mongo
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