FouLLine

Deivi Garcia - RHP NYY

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4 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

Which I will tell you Jose Fernandez was 19 and doing similar things... Yes a rarity to make that leap but you never know as Deivi's dominance right now isn't too far from that of Jose's at a similar age.

 

 

 

Oh  boy, I'm irrationally excited. 

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A few things.  Deivi has 0 mainstream attention still at this moment... He's not on prospect boards he's not a guy people are really looking at outside of "prospect junkies" such as ourselves. 

 

Just because he's not a highly ranked prospect at the moment, it doesn't mean he hasn't received mainstream attention.  He was already being mentioned last year on Fangraphs.  He's had blurbs on razzball.  He's been mentioned milb.com frequently.  His name has been mentioned on many chats across the board.  Not being high on prospect boards versus not getting mainstream attention doesn't necessarily coincide with one another.  

 

Where your line of thinking will rarely ever net you value is you're too scared to take a leap.  You and the majority of the rest of the dynasty world is caught up in this scared way of thinking.  "I need to see him do it in AA first".... You do realize that once it's done in AA it generally gets done in the majors within the next year or two... Sometimes within a couple months for the best prospects.  Yeah some prospects struggle for a year or two at the major league level.  But the really good ones, the ones like Deivi Garcia ... They generally just go guns blazing.  I'm more than willing to be early on a guy and watch him potentially struggle in the majors than miss a guy entirely because "I want to see him do it in AA".

 

You clearly not no idea what my line of thinking is.  I've owned Acuna, Soto, etc. while they were in rookie ball.  I have no issues taking chances with low level prospects.  It is actually my bread and butter thanks in part to the work this board provides.  I just don't make asinine proclamations based strictly on low level stats, especially one of a low level pitcher.  

 

Using your train of thought ("comparative analysis"), Han Crouse should be a top 20 prospect right now.  I would not trade Hans Crouse for McKenzie Gore.  How ridiculous does that sound?  I mean, the numbers check out right?

 

Just because I wouldn't have him ranked as one of the top 8-10 arms in the minors right now, that doesn't mean I wouldn't take a chance on someone like Deivi Garcia.  You've got all of this mixed up in your head.  You also clearly don't fully grasp what I'm saying.  In order to continue to rise and cement his prospect status, he needs to produce at Double A.  What's so difficult to understand about that?  If he's going to make that type of leap in prospect rankings, that's just a given.  That's just having COMMON SENSE.  That's just being LOGICAL.  

 

You haven't been doing this that long if you haven't noticed the evolution of the minor leagues.  Yeah they are stacked to the gills with talent.  This whole old thinking of "AA is the biggest and hardest jump" that's not exactly true anymore.  Also in terms of a dynasty setting by the time it's done in AA or Advanced A it's too late to get these guys at a value.

 

You have this misconception that this is the way I feel.  That's not even the argument that's being debated here.  You are completely morphing this discussion into a whole different topic.  Your ranking of Garcia over Gore and ridiculous statement that you would not trade Garcia for Gore straight up is(based on your comparative analysis of their A ball statistics).  

 

Again the scouts can love the 6'8" horse but when he's in A ball and Deivi Garcia is flat out pitching better than him I'm going to go with the stats.

 

And if that's been working for you, great.  You said you had a success rate of over 50%, which would by a landslide make you one of the top baseball talent evaluators in the world.  You should be running a baseball team my dude.

 

Here's another name that I would bet you even money that Deivi Garcia will have more value than by the end of 2019, Michel Baez who is pretty much in the top 40 on just about every list.

 

Based on your comparative analysis, why not?  It checks out.

 

Also for the record I like baseball... You made this an argument, I made a claim and you argued it.   Also even if you like Gore over Deivi (which is perfectly reasonable) I think it's very unreasonable to deny the fact that Deivi may be better than Gore going off of what we've seen so far.

 

I really don't think you even know what that argument is anymore or ever did in the first place.

 

Look, at this point in his career Gore hasn't done as much as Deivi Garcia in the minors.  It's that simple.  Deivi has a far bigger sample and it is far more dominant as well.  You can't have a more pure argument.  So I'm not sure how that's obscure and flawed.  But you want to say "Ohh pedigree and scouting reports are more important than minor league production".  That's your opinion, which is fine but understand that you're not arguing with facts you're arguing with feelings.  You feel that Gore is better than Deivi so now you have to prove me wrong with your feelings rather than combating facts with facts.  What fact did your previous response have at all?  It had a hell of a lot of opinion about how you think my argument is flawed and how you think a pitcher will come up to the major leagues.  Which I will tell you Jose Fernandez was 19 and doing similar things... Yes a rarity to make that leap but you never know as Deivi's dominance right now isn't too far from that of Jose's at a similar age.

 

And in conclusion...

 

I've said a bunch of crazy things... All of which at the time would have had heavy under dog odds on happening... When more than 50% of those come to fruition you're doing a good job. 

 

It's hard to argue with level of success. :bow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

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The argument here is, is Deivi Garcia better than MacKenzie Gore?  I say yes... You say I'm ridiculous.  You name call, you continually show your emotions, you put adjectives to what I'm doing without explanation or facts to back it up.  You don't list any facts other than "the scouts liked Gore more".  Okay sure, but this has been wrong many times and when that's all you've got then at some point you've gotta stop saying I'm out of line with what I'm saying.  You don't have to agree with me but to act like there's a 0 probability that Deivi ends up being better than Gore is extremely ignorant and closed minded.

 

I will bet you 1,000 USD on 2 to 1 that Deivi Garcia makes it to the big leagues faster than Gore.  If I'm right you owe me 2k if I'm wrong you owe me 1k.  Sound about right?

 

 

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Sure.  I will re-phrase my last comment.

 

The argument here is, is Deivi Garcia better than MacKenzie Gore?  I say yes... You say I'm ridiculous.  You name call, you continually show your emotions, you put adjectives to what I'm doing without explanation or facts to back it up.  You don't list any facts other than "the scouts liked Gore more".  Okay sure, but this has been wrong many times and when that's all you've got then at some point you've gotta stop saying I'm out of line with what I'm saying.  You don't have to agree with me but to act like there's a 0 probability that Deivi ends up being better than Gore is extremely ignorant and closed minded.

 

I will bet you 1,000 USD on 2 to 1 that Deivi Garcia makes it to the big leagues faster than Gore.  If I'm right you owe me 2k if I'm wrong you owe me 1k.  Sound about right?

 

What exactly does Garcia's ETA have to do with the discussion?  I have not said nor insinuated that there's a 0 probability that Garcia may ends up being the better pitcher.   So where exactly is that coming from?  One would argue that not factoring in anything else and besides A ball numbers and proclaiming Deivi Garcia as one of the top arms in the minors and better than McKenzie Gore shows massive bias and over evaluation.

 

The bet in itself makes no sense whatsoever.

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Wowsas!  Didn't realize they promoted him.  Incredible year for the kid, he's going to be rocketing up lists.

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22 hours ago, BigPapi44 said:

Wowsas!  Didn't realize they promoted him.  Incredible year for the kid, he's going to be rocketing up lists.

 

Yeah get your shares now while you still can.... Or if someone else beat you to him, trade for him now before it's too late and his price triples at the start of next season.

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He's not on many prospect top 100s now, but the type of success hes having at 19 pretty much warrants it on any lists where a prospector is comfortable ranking a decent amount of SPs in the top 100 

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Prospects Live has him as the #3 Yankees prospect

 

3. Deivi Garcia, RHP

Age: 19 (5/19/99)

Level: AA

74 IP, 2.55 ERA, 2.60 FIP, 12.77 K/9, 2.43 BB/9, .186 AVG

Garcia has dominated older hitters at every level. His fastball sits 94 with what looks like a high spin rate. His curveball is a plus MLB ready right now. The changeup is coming along nicely but is a firm offering at present. Despite his small stature with little body projection, the separator between Garcia and other teenage arms in the system is his plus command. Jason Pennini coined the phrase “nine-quadrant command” when talking about Deivi. What he means is that Garcia locates his fastball anywhere he needs to with ease, elevating with two strikes and generating swing-and-miss. The curveball extends both sides of the the plate and what his changeup lacks in movement, he makes up for in his ability to locate at the bottom of the zone while maintaining his fastball arm speed. The Yankees have been aggressive with his assignments so far and he has conquered every challenge. ETA: 2020

 

https://www.prospectslive.com/lists/2018/10/8/yankees

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On 9/4/2018 at 11:15 PM, smarmy said:

@FouLLine...drop Brusdar Graterol for this dude or nah?

If you're finding a way to add Garcia, you should find someone else to drop.  Given his size, and the fact he's gotten TJ out of the way already, Graterol carries less reliever risk to go with his tremendous upside.  He also has a lesser path of resistance with the Twins.

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On 10/14/2018 at 4:42 PM, I like baseball said:

If you're finding a way to add Garcia, you should find someone else to drop.  Given his size, and the fact he's gotten TJ out of the way already, Graterol carries less reliever risk to go with his tremendous upside.  He also has a lesser path of resistance with the Twins.

I found a way to hang onto Graterol. I'm in complete rebuild mode.

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15 hours ago, Coach George said:

He is in the CBS system now

 

Exactly how good of a value he is right now... He just got added to the CBS database over the off season.  If you're not in the CBS database yet you are far from a mainstream prospect.

 

If you can trade for Deivi in your dynasty draft do it!  Could be last call before he costs a king's randsom.

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14 minutes ago, FouLLine said:

 

Exactly how good of a value he is right now... He just got added to the CBS database over the off season.  If you're not in the CBS database yet you are far from a mainstream prospect.

 

If you can trade for Deivi in your dynasty draft do it!  Could be last call before he costs a king's randsom.

 

Two years ago I remember when Anderson Espinoza, Victor Robles and Francis Martes were added at the same time. It was a big deal to me.

 

CBS recently added Kristian Robinson, Luis Patino and Garcia...that is also a big deal to me. They added a whole lot of guys but those were the main guys that impacted me in my situation.

 

I’m really curious to see how Garcia does moving forward. The stuff is legit, but the body and frame aren’t too great. I like his chances to be a fast riser and it is definitely time to get in on him if you can.

Edited by Coach George

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I'm doing  a Dynasty startup draft and someone super reached on Deivi ahead of a lot of prospect pitchers I'd have higher ranked.  Seems like some hype is building.

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3 hours ago, Team Dynasty said:

Will keep an eye on this kid, but feel he has a way to go, before we crown him better than Gore. Only time will tell.

 

I think Garcia has a lot of upside and potential— but he’s not in Gore’s class right now. He has the potential to be a fast riser though and could be a guy that makes a big jump on lists if he starts 2019 as hot as he finished 2018.

 

His lack of size is really what holds him back...I think we can all recognize that.

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On ‎01‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:15 PM, FouLLine said:

If you can trade for Deivi in your dynasty draft do it!  Could be last call before he costs a king's randsom.

 

 

I took your advice and traded Nelson Cruz for Garcia and Zimmer.  Hope you are right!  Thanks

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On 1/15/2019 at 10:47 PM, TheTruth024 said:

 

 

I took your advice and traded Nelson Cruz for Garcia and Zimmer.  Hope you are right!  Thanks

 

Yeah in a dynasty league you're going to win that trade easily.

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On 1/15/2019 at 8:08 AM, Coach George said:

 

His lack of size is really what holds him back...I think we can all recognize that.

 

This is my thing too.  I think the only major leaguer his size is Stroman. The good news is, there's a lot of upside and he's already reached AA. Has an outside shot of being in the bullpen late this year or start some games in the Bronx. Conservatively, I'd say next year.

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17 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

This is my thing too.  I think the only major leaguer his size is Stroman. The good news is, there's a lot of upside and he's already reached AA. Has an outside shot of being in the bullpen late this year or start some games in the Bronx. Conservatively, I'd say next year.

 

One thing that I've noticed is that minor league measurables are the worst.  They always are way off.  I think Deivi probably weighs more than 160 but it's hard to tell from just watching videos.  

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He's listed at 5'10 and it's hard to know how 'updated' that is.  I agree with you guys, there have been very few pitchers in the modern era, not named Tim Lincecum or Pedro Martinez, that have found a lot of success as a starting pitcher that are under 6 feet.

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