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Jimmy Butler 2018-2019 Season Outlook

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1 hour ago, jujuonthebeat said:

Yeah, that doesn't even make sense. Whole post sounds like a lot of general anti-Laker sentiment tbh. Who's the 2nd best player on the Clippers, Lou Williams? There's no universe in which they're the odds on favorites to land Kawhi.

 

https://www.playnow.com/sports/basketball/nba-specials/Kawhi-Leonard-Team-in-2019-20-Season-1590685.html

 

Raptors a little too low probably, but seems way more realistic.

 

SherlockWait.gif

 

I'm a little hesitant to try and use odds from 3rd rate Canadian sites 10 months from a decision.  Kawhi could probably end up a half dozen reasonable places including the Lakers, but to try and bury your head in the sand and act like there aren't other legitimate suitors seems a bit bizarre.

 

Meanwhile..... literally, within minutes of your post.

 

Quote

The Clippers are "emerging as a front-runner" to sign Kawhi Leonard in free agency next summer, according to Adrian Wojnarowski.

Leonard hasn't even had an official practice with the Raptors and he's already rumored to be headed elsewhere, but a lot can happen before next July. The Clippers are reportedly a favored landing spot for Butler, who may be hoping to join Kawhi or another max free agent -- the Clippers can accomodate two max salaries. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'm a little hesitant to try and use odds from 3rd rate Canadian sites

You're reading what you want to read. You're calling the Clippers a frontrunner for no reason. It's blatantly obvious that it's the Lakers, and is becoming increasingly obvious that you simply don't want to believe it's the Lakers.

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Debating what team is the favorite to land a free agent next summer when next summer is 9 months away is pretty pointless. Situations will change. PG was a lock to go to the Lakers and LBJ was a total longshot pipe dream for the Lakers. Look what happened. Much more interesting and realistic to talk about landing spots for Jimmy this year than debate who's the favorite to sign Kawhi next summer. 

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12 hours ago, Apollo_87 said:

Why are you assuming that Butler has a say here? Minny is going to trade him to the team that offers the most.

 

Pretty sure Kawhi didn't want to go to Toronto.

 

Well except it's most likely a sign and trade, meaning Butler would have to sign the contract for the trade to happen.  Otherwise he could just leave for another team next summer but for less money.  Not sure about the sign and trade part.  

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34 minutes ago, vnmslsrbms said:

 

Well except it's most likely a sign and trade, meaning Butler would have to sign the contract for the trade to happen.  Otherwise he could just leave for another team next summer but for less money.  Not sure about the sign and trade part.  


No it's not. He has a year to run on his contract (or two if he opted in, which seems unlikely). Sign-and-trade is for guys at the end of their contracts to facilitate them going to the place that wants them and that they want to go to while allowing some compensation to the team losing the FA. This is absolutely NOT a sign-and-trade and absolutely CANNOT be. He can say whatever he wants "sure I'm definitely going to sign with you as a free-agent" so a team moves for him and then he can totally back-flip because he is not at the end of his contract. There is no way Butler in his position would immediately sign with a new team, when he can wait and until free-agency for the other FAs to play their cards too, he would be completely killing his flexibility and may end up in a worse situation. Repeat - not a sign-and-trade.

 

You're reading what you want to read. You're calling the Clippers a frontrunner for no reason. It's blatantly obvious that it's the Lakers, and is becoming increasingly obvious that you simply don't want to believe it's the Lakers.


Ah Laker's fans...

Edited by Jake the snake
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9 hours ago, jujuonthebeat said:

You're reading what you want to read. You're calling the Clippers a frontrunner for no reason. It's blatantly obvious that it's the Lakers, and is becoming increasingly obvious that you simply don't want to believe it's the Lakers.


Lakers should be stupid to sacrifice their youth core for Butler.

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6 hours ago, Jake the snake said:


No it's not. He has a year to run on his contract (or two if he opted in, which seems unlikely). Sign-and-trade is for guys at the end of their contracts to facilitate them going to the place that wants them and that they want to go to while allowing some compensation to the team losing the FA. This is absolutely NOT a sign-and-trade and absolutely CANNOT be. He can say whatever he wants "sure I'm definitely going to sign with you as a free-agent" so a team moves for him and then he can totally back-flip because he is not at the end of his contract. There is no way Butler in his position would immediately sign with a new team, when he can wait and until free-agency for the other FAs to play their cards too, he would be completely killing his flexibility and may end up in a worse situation. Repeat - not a sign-and-trade.

 


Ah Laker's fans...

 

I agree with you it’s not a sign and trade but what I think you’re missing is that whatever team he is traded to would be able to offer him $50mil more ($190m vs $140m) in FA because of the rules of the collective bargaining agreement so I’m pretty sure there’s a strong incentive for him to re-sign where he ends up unless it’s a situation so poor that it’s worth forgoing that extra $50m!

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34 minutes ago, krupocin said:

 

I agree with you it’s not a sign and trade but what I think you’re missing is that whatever team he is traded to would be able to offer him $50mil more ($190m vs $140m) in FA because of the rules of the collective bargaining agreement so I’m pretty sure there’s a strong incentive for him to re-sign where he ends up unless it’s a situation so poor that it’s worth forgoing that extra $50m!

 

Not missing just clarifying. 

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Knicks are out. Called it.

 

Watch the Nets/Clippers follow suit. These are 3 non-contenders who are rebuilding and nowhere close to a win-now position. Toronto, Cleveland, New Orleans, Philly - he's going to one of those 4 spots, with Toronto being most likely.

 

The Knicks are unlikely to trade for Jimmy Butler.

"We’re committed to not missing any steps," Knicks President Steve Mills said. "We’re going to take this as a step-by-step process. We’re going to continue along with our plan." Butler named the Knicks, Nets and Clippers as his preferred destinations (Clippers are at the top of his list), but the Knicks have learned from their mistakes in the past and won't give up assets when they can pursue high-profile free agents as soon as 2019.
 
 
Source: The Athletic
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14 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Most of the Clippers roster is on expiring deals so the Clippers are built as a free agent destination, not a team trying to build with draft picks.  Not much to gut.  They have a lot of pieces that can be moved easily and only Gallo on a bad deal.  Could trade someone like Harris and Wesley Johnson or Patrick Beverly and easily make the money work.  Butler is on a pretty cheap deal.  Frankly, the Clippers probably want to be in the lottery this year so their pick doesn't convey and they can get another cheap asset....

 

Clippers plan was always to try and lure UFA's to them and Ballmer will pay.  It would be very Clipper like to pay Butler until 35, but have to figure if it helps net Kawhi, they'd gladly pay.  I still think Toronto is being underestimated in their chances at keeping Kawhi.   What would be interesting is if Kawhi stays in Toronto, Butler moves to LAC.  Klay and KD aren't going anywhere so what the hell would the Lakers do?  Dame?

 

There is a rumor out there, and I stress rumor, so folks should take with a large grain of salt that KAT and Butler don't like each other because there's some friction over KAT's ex-girlfriend.  Again, big time rumor but could be a reason Minnesota didn't work....

I agree with the Clippers roster construction, which is the difficulty in making a trade for Butler. The Wolves have to get something in return. The first round pick and SGA are the only real things of value on that roster for a team like the Wolves that is still in the middle of a rebuild. Minnesota taking on expiring deals for older players just isn't smart, but they maxed out Wiggins so they aren't very smart. They aren't a free agent destination. They need to draft, develop and hold on to their own. Money isn't going to be the limiting factor on a Butler deal....it is going to be the assets that Minnesota wants back and who gives it to them.

 

I am not really into trying to predict trades, but I do know that everyone thinks the Nets, Knicks, and Clippers have tons of leverage right now and they actually don't have as much as one might think. Kawhi applied more pressure on the Spurs and they walked away with a pretty legit package. And Kawhi's health, both mental and physical, was clear as mud before that deal. Butler is on a relatively cheap contract, more mentally stable, physically healthy for the time being. If you think you are fringe competitors and Buckets puts you over the top you pursue that rental. Teams like the Pacers, Rockets, Pelicans, Grizzlies, Blazers can all convince themselves that pursuing Jimmy is worth it, even as a rental. Landing Jimmy and not making noise in the postseason would essentially allow those teams to stop pussyfooting around the rebuild button and take the leap...talking more specifically about the Grizz and Blazers there. 

 

In terms of the Lakers, I wouldn't worry too much about what players Lebron is going to team up with. Stars are disgruntled all the time. A new wave will present themselves over the next 12-16 months. Guys will want that max max money and length. They will start to force the issue well before their contracts expire. The beauty of Lebron is that almost all of the stars would be decent fits playing alongside him. I would say KD is the only mega superstar talent that is easier to build a superteam around than Lebron. Someone good will sign up to be a Laker. 

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6 minutes ago, Apollo_87 said:

Knicks are out. Called it.

 

Watch the Nets/Clippers follow suit. These are 3 non-contenders who are rebuilding and nowhere close to a win-now position. Toronto, Cleveland, New Orleans, Philly - he's going to one of those 4 spots, with Toronto being most likely.

 

The Knicks are unlikely to trade for Jimmy Butler.

"We’re committed to not missing any steps," Knicks President Steve Mills said. "We’re going to take this as a step-by-step process. We’re going to continue along with our plan." Butler named the Knicks, Nets and Clippers as his preferred destinations (Clippers are at the top of his list), but the Knicks have learned from their mistakes in the past and won't give up assets when they can pursue high-profile free agents as soon as 2019.
 
 
Source: The Athletic

Good for them! That is a really polite way of the Knicks saying we aren't interested in crippling our franchise by locking up the decline years for a superstar with questionable health at a supermax cost. If I were a Knicks fan I would be pretty stoked about this. Shortcutting the current rebuild strategy because the last few rebuild strategies were flawed and poorly executed is not wise. 

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17 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

I agree with the Clippers roster construction, which is the difficulty in making a trade for Butler. The Wolves have to get something in return. The first round pick and SGA are the only real things of value on that roster for a team like the Wolves that is still in the middle of a rebuild. Minnesota taking on expiring deals for older players just isn't smart, but they maxed out Wiggins so they aren't very smart. They aren't a free agent destination. They need to draft, develop and hold on to their own. Money isn't going to be the limiting factor on a Butler deal....it is going to be the assets that Minnesota wants back and who gives it to them.

 

I am not really into trying to predict trades, but I do know that everyone thinks the Nets, Knicks, and Clippers have tons of leverage right now and they actually don't have as much as one might think. Kawhi applied more pressure on the Spurs and they walked away with a pretty legit package. And Kawhi's health, both mental and physical, was clear as mud before that deal. Butler is on a relatively cheap contract, more mentally stable, physically healthy for the time being. If you think you are fringe competitors and Buckets puts you over the top you pursue that rental. Teams like the Pacers, Rockets, Pelicans, Grizzlies, Blazers can all convince themselves that pursuing Jimmy is worth it, even as a rental. Landing Jimmy and not making noise in the postseason would essentially allow those teams to stop pussyfooting around the rebuild button and take the leap...talking more specifically about the Grizz and Blazers there. 

 

In terms of the Lakers, I wouldn't worry too much about what players Lebron is going to team up with. Stars are disgruntled all the time. A new wave will present themselves over the next 12-16 months. Guys will want that max max money and length. They will start to force the issue well before their contracts expire. The beauty of Lebron is that almost all of the stars would be decent fits playing alongside him. I would say KD is the only mega superstar talent that is easier to build a superteam around than Lebron. Someone good will sign up to be a Laker. 

 

It's all about what Thibs will want..... the timing of this is what really hamstrings the Wolves and Thibs.  Thibs is actually on the hot seat and needed a big season to facilitate the next phase in trying to build the team into a winner.  He's going into year 3 of his contract and could easily find himself losing player personnel control by next summer if the team misses the playoffs and/or underperforms during the season.

 

But what could your options offer? 

 

Rockets?  Eric Gordon.  Nope. 

Cans?  Holiday maybe?  Would they do that?  Would the Wolves want that contract?  Otherwise, they don't have much.

Pacers?  T Young and Collison?  Those guys are on expiring deals too and the Pacers don't have much other than Sabonis.  Maybe but rather have Harris and someone.

Grizzlies?  Absolutely no assets other than Jackson.  They're leveraged to the hilt.

Blazers?  Probably the only reasonable alternative.  CM McCollum?  That contract is rough.  Would have to involve picks.

 

I don't think those teams are realistic options because they have even less to offer than the Clippers.  I understand your point and I agree, the 3 listed teams aren't necessarily going to acquire Butler this year.  It's why I earlier wrote the same teams that were in on Kawhi could also be in on Butler.  Personally?  I think Philly made a huge mistake by not going all in on Kawhi and I think they'll be 2nd/3rd fiddle in the East because of it.  The Butler situation may give them a chance to fix a mistake.  Give up a draft pick and guys like Saric/Covington for him.  See if you can make a push on Boston and hope you get lucky.  I think the Lakers should really think about Butler.  The Clippers issue is they don't have much in draft picks but if Thibs wants to try and make a push this year because he's about to lose his power, then he may want assets that can "win now"..... Just a thought.

 

 

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As a Raptors fan, I'm kind of glad that Jimmy waited this long to let his intentions be known to the organization. Had he demanded a trade a few months ago, who knows... we might have seen Kawhi get traded for Jimmy instead of DeMar...

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Oh baby I hope Portland get in on this, anything but CJ or Dame for Jimmy and they become a top 3 seed in the West, but will act like one in the playoffs this time. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, dekciw_1 said:


Lakers should be stupid to sacrifice their youth core for Butler.

Sure would be, especially since Jimmy would create a cap hold that wouldn't allow them to sign a free agent next offseason. That's why I was posting about next offseason.

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6 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

It's all about what Thibs will want..... the timing of this is what really hamstrings the Wolves and Thibs.  Thibs is actually on the hot seat and needed a big season to facilitate the next phase in trying to build the team into a winner.  He's going into year 3 of his contract and could easily find himself losing player personnel control by next summer if the team misses the playoffs and/or underperforms during the season.

 

But what could your options offer? 

 

Rockets?  Eric Gordon.  Nope. 

Cans?  Holiday maybe?  Would they do that?  Would the Wolves want that contract?  Otherwise, they don't have much.

Pacers?  T Young and Collison?  Those guys are on expiring deals too and the Pacers don't have much other than Sabonis.  Maybe but rather have Harris and someone.

Grizzlies?  Absolutely no assets other than Jackson.  They're leveraged to the hilt.

Blazers?  Probably the only reasonable alternative.  CM McCollum?  That contract is rough.  Would have to involve picks.

 

I don't think those teams are realistic options because they have even less to offer than the Clippers.  I understand your point and I agree, the 3 listed teams aren't necessarily going to acquire Butler this year.  It's why I earlier wrote the same teams that were in on Kawhi could also be in on Butler.  Personally?  I think Philly made a huge mistake by not going all in on Kawhi and I think they'll be 2nd/3rd fiddle in the East because of it.  The Butler situation may give them a chance to fix a mistake.  Give up a draft pick and guys like Saric/Covington for him.  See if you can make a push on Boston and hope you get lucky.  I think the Lakers should really think about Butler.  The Clippers issue is they don't have much in draft picks but if Thibs wants to try and make a push this year because he's about to lose his power, then he may want assets that can "win now"..... Just a thought.

 

 

I don't spend much time trying to piece together trades because they can always expand to 3 team deals, they can morph into larger deals, and they can be tank job deals. I tend to focus more on the macro view (direction of a franchise) than the micro view (trade). I wouldn't be so sure about it being about what Thibs wants. There has been a lot of smoke about the owner regretting giving Thibs all of the basketball controls. I would bet that that relationship ends sooner rather than later. Honestly, it wouldn't shock me if Thibs was out the door a month after Jimmy. 

 

Full disclosure, the Sixers are my team that I have been with for the past decade and I would be very disappointed to see them make a deal for Buckets and here is why. There is no way they should resign him, so he is a rental. Then the cost to acquire him goes beyond the personnel and draft capital. Let's say it is Covington and Saric or whatever the deal is....it really doesn't matter. Bringing in Jimmy means you are taking away massive usage from Fultz, Embiid, and Simmons. Those guys NEED to develop. The risk to their development is not anywhere close to the reward of a Buckets rental. These young Sixers need game reps and a lot of them. I say get Fultz balling and making a ton of mistakes in the regular season to learn from. Embiid is locked up and have him really figure out when to look for his and how to defer better on offense. Simmons is in the same boat. These guys are just scratching the surface. Why would I want Buckets to come in and stunt that? To be a 2 or 3 seed instead of a 3, 4, 5, or 6 seed? KAT was more advanced than Embiid and look at how his season went last year? Sixers fans went through an epic rebuild that everyone is now mimicking....now is not really the time to shortcut it, IMO. Then all the patience is kind of for nothing. By bringing in Jimmy means your absolute upside is to hope for the Finals and get blitzed by the Warriors or Rockets. Or hope to compete in the ECF. But realistically you are going to compete in the second round or ECF. Nah, for me it is still the long game this season.

 

That's my take on why teams like the Sixers are the exact wrong teams to trade for Jimmy. Teams like the Blazers and Pelicans that are stuck in no man's land need to take the risk to break through or rebuild. How they make deals is anyone's guess. But the Pelicans had a really crappy roster and they landed Boogie in a trade no one could have predicted. 

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Fantasy wise (the only slant I really care about since I can't see my Knicks actually getting him, I see this having little impact on him. If he's stuck on the Wolves I can't see him just taking. He's a huge competitor and HIGHLY paid professional. Wouldn't want to further tarnish what some consider a questionable image.

 

Regardless of where he does land, he'll be a monster. He just produced at a top 20 rate on the T'Wolves, a team with Towns and Wiggins (Wiggins isn't good but he takes a ton of shots). As a new owner of him in a keeper league, I'll probably be rooting for the Clippers to land him. He'd run the show there. 

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8 minutes ago, skyjogger13 said:

jimmys not guna pull a kahwi is he? i already drafted him..

I would be shocked if he did.  

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3 hours ago, Red Sox Nation said:

Fantasy wise (the only slant I really care about since I can't see my Knicks actually getting him, I see this having little impact on him. If he's stuck on the Wolves I can't see him just taking. He's a huge competitor and HIGHLY paid professional. Wouldn't want to further tarnish what some consider a questionable image.

 

Regardless of where he does land, he'll be a monster. He just produced at a top 20 rate on the T'Wolves, a team with Towns and Wiggins (Wiggins isn't good but he takes a ton of shots). As a new owner of him in a keeper league, I'll probably be rooting for the Clippers to land him. He'd run the show there. 

There's no way in hell Jimmy tanks or stops trying. Dude made his name and game on his hustle and grind. Part of the reason for this whole drama is his teammates not living up to his expectations on giving more effort. He would look like the biggest hypocrite in the world if he just stopped trying. He still wants that max money so it's in his best interest to actually play the best he's ever done.

 

I'll be targeting him in the top half of the 2nd round if he's available. 23/5/5 with 2 steals and elite percentages is what I'm expecting.

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There is a "real possibility" Jimmy Butler may not report to training camp if a trade has not been consummated, according to Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic.

Earlier, Woj reported that the Wolves are shutting down trade offers on Butler right now, so it would appear Butler is willing to take his trade request to another level. It sounds like this relationship is beyond repair, but the Wolves may not be willing to accommodate Jimmy's list of the Clippers, Nets and Knicks as possible destinations. If Butler is still on the roster for most of camp, it'll create a major distraction for the team. Expect several updates this weekend.
 
 
Source: The Athletic
Sep 21 - 4:35 PM

 

Butler is pulling a Le'veon Bell!!!

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I won’t want him.  What has he ever done? He is a complimentary player who thinks he is better than he is.  Seems he is always unhappy.

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