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travis10425

Kamara or Barkley? .5 ppr

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I’ve had this dilemma in two different drafts! I chose Kamara on one and Barkley in the other. :) If I had to choose now I’m going Barkley and I don’t really know why!

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12 minutes ago, ccimore said:

Barkley is guaranteed a HUGE workload.  Kamara is not guaranteed a HUGE workload.

 

This. Every indication we have from the Saints is that they will have some form of time share there, like Payton has always had. Barkley will be a workhorse. 

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41 minutes ago, ccimore said:

Barkley is guaranteed a HUGE workload.  Kamara is not guaranteed a HUGE workload.

 

When you catch 80+ balls, break 28.8% of tackles (second best in the league), average over 6 yards per rush as a rookie, and are a bigger threat to score from anywhere on the field than any other RB in the league.....there are things that sometimes supercede workload.

 

Kamara was used sparingly in NO's 3-man committee until Peterson was traded, turning it into a true RBBC with Ingram and he still managed those 81 catches with 1554 yards and 13 TDs. With the aging Ingram suspended to start the year and Kamara being a focal point from the beginning, do you see any scenario where a healthy AK is used LESS than he was last season? 

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3 minutes ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

When you catch 80+ balls, break 28.8% of tackles (second best in the league), average over 6 yards per rush as a rookie, and are a bigger threat to score from anywhere on the field than any other RB in the league.....there are things that sometimes supercede workload.

 

Kamara was used sparingly in NO's 3-man committee until Peterson was traded, turning it into a true RBBC with Ingram and he still managed those 81 catches with 1554 yards and 13 TDs. With the aging Ingram suspended to start the year and Kamara being a focal point from the beginning, do you see any scenario where a healthy AK is used LESS than he was last season? 

I see him getting injured. Easy decision = Barkley > Kamara

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1 minute ago, c27 said:

I see him getting injured. 

 

Based on what? You already suggested that he won't see a high volume of touches. 

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4 minutes ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

Based on what? You already suggested that he won't see a high volume of touches. 

I think we will see an increase during the suspension of Ingram, and thus gets injured. He's not built to be a workhorse back and that's why it worked out so beautifully last year with ingram. As much as I liked him last year I have a bad feeling about this year, plus I think Ingram has a chip on his shoulder not only with the suspension, but with somewhat being demoted after having the best season of his career the year before. I'd rather take the value with Ingram in he 5th and Barkley in the first. There are literally no other options at RB in NY

Edited by c27

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I'd go with Kamara and grab Ingram in the 4th. The duo had over 600 points in full PPR last year and while they likely won't be that good again I don't see their combined total dropping significantly. By pairing the two together you squash a lot of the questions that has particularly about workload and health. You can pickup Jonathan Williams with one of your late picks too, the Saints backfield should be a valuable one to own once again. 

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Just now, Jaw1 said:

I'd go with Kamara and grab Ingram in the 4th. The duo had over 600 points in full PPR last year and while they likely won't be that good again I don't see their combined total dropping significantly. By pairing the two together you squash a lot of the questions that has particularly about workload and health. You can pickup Jonathan Williams with one of your late picks too, the Saints backfield should be a valuable one to own once again. 

That's a dumbass strategy no offense

 

Barkley + Ingram > Kamara + Ingram  and it's not even close

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20 minutes ago, c27 said:

That's a dumbass strategy no offense

 

Barkley + Ingram > Kamara + Ingram  and it's not even close

Your argument for Barkley over Kamara is that you think Kamara will get injured which is a pretty weak argument that could literally be applied to anyone. Barkley is the one that is actually already injured and hamstring injuries don't just magically go away especially with the major workload everyone is projecting for him. He seems like the bigger injury risk to me. Factor into that Barkley hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL while Kamara put together one of the most impressive seasons in recent memory on a per touch basis.

 

I think because Kamara catches a lot of passes and is lightning quick he gets this perception that he is a tiny, fragile dude but at 5ft 10in and 215lbs he isn't the incredible hulk but he isn't some rag doll either. His BMI is higher than that of Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson and Melvin Gordon) That being said Payton is one of the best coaches in the league and I think he'll be smart with his usage of Kamara since they obviously saw how effective he was in the role he played. Between Jonathan Williams and Brees, who although old is definitely capable of taking on a higher load than last season, I think Payton will be able to control Kamara's usage and you won't see a significant uptick. Payton isn't some scrub I don't see him running Kamara into the ground from the get go.

 

It only takes one play to get injured though so I think getting Ingram covers your bases. His big questions are some are afraid Kamara takes a bigger chunk of the pie with his performance while he is suspended. In owning both you still own that entire pie and the breakdowns of their usage wouldn't really matter. If Kamara does happen to get injured you have Ingram who is 10000x better than anything the Giants have if Barkley misses time. Even better Ingram will probably be a solid RB2 without Kamara being anything less than his RB1 spectacular self. 

 

 

Edited by Jaw1
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This is too much nonsense to read.

 

In the real world yes the Saints have a nice two-headed monster. Fantasy is  about UPSIDE and VALUE. 

 

You are diminishing BOTH when you take  Kamara in the 1st and Ingram in middle rounds. If you need me to further explain this let me know.

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9 minutes ago, c27 said:

There are literally no other options at RB in NY

 

Was this quote taken directly from last year's Paul Perkins thread? I realize that's an extreme example but you know, it's RBs so nothing is sacred. You're bigger on Barkley than Kamara. That's fine. Plenty of people are. But I haven't seen him do anything on an NFL field as of yet. I've seen that Kamara can catch passes at a very high volume, break tackles as well as just about anyone in the league, and be a home run threat from anywhere on the field.

 

The receptions are really such a major thing. If you're catching 81 balls (good enough for 13th in the league last season), you're essentially a WR2 already, with any of the rushing numbers simply being gravy on top of that. In half PPR, his receiving numbers ALONE last year would have made him a low-end WR2. That's insane and that is the kind of statistic that makes him so attractive to me in any PPR format, especially in comparison to a rookie. 

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1 minute ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

Was this quote taken directly from last year's Paul Perkins thread? I realize that's an extreme example but you know, it's RBs so nothing is sacred. You're bigger on Barkley than Kamara. That's fine. Plenty of people are. But I haven't seen him do anything on an NFL field as of yet. I've seen that Kamara can catch passes at a very high volume, break tackles as well as just about anyone in the league, and be a home run threat from anywhere on the field.

 

The receptions are really such a major thing. If you're catching 81 balls (good enough for 13th in the league last season), you're essentially a WR2 already, with any of the rushing numbers simply being gravy on top of that. In half PPR, his receiving numbers ALONE last year would have made him a low-end WR2. That's insane and that is the kind of statistic that makes him so attractive to me in any PPR format, especially in comparison to a rookie. 

It's the same  situation as Zeke back in 2016 with  a guaranteed workload and no threatening  backup RBs on  the  roster except Barkley is a superior pass catcher. 

 

Kamara is not an every down workhouse back and Sean Payton will not use him as  such. You're getting a guy who is built for a workload,  is going to get a guaranteed lion's share,  and is just as dangerous in  the pass game as Kamara.

 

This is regardless of if he wants Ingram in the middle rounds or not.

 

Let's do like everyone else does and not project injury. Barkley still has more UPSIDE than Kamara does this year and that cannot be debated.

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1 minute ago, c27 said:

This is too much nonsense to read.

 

In the real world yes the Saints have a nice two-headed monster. Fantasy is  about UPSIDE and VALUE. 

 

You are diminishing BOTH when you take  Kamara in the 1st and Ingram in middle rounds. If you need me to further explain this let me know.

 

 

You are not incorrect in this yes by taking both you are lowering your theoretical upside but you are also significantly increasing your floor. As demonstrated last season the upside is still really really good and I don't see the Saints being that much worse so I think the floor isn't significantly off. Barkley and Ingram does have a higher upside than Barkley and Kamara but it also has a lower floor. It comes down to personal preference on which you prefer but this early in the draft I like more certainty as there is plenty of time for upside later. The only scenario where both Kamara and Ingram flop is if they both get injured or the Saints take a significant step back. I'll take those odds as its about as close to a certainty as you are going to get in fantasy football. 

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11 minutes ago, Jaw1 said:

 

 

You are not incorrect in this yes by taking both you are lowering your theoretical upside but you are also significantly increasing your floor. As demonstrated last season the upside is still really really good and I don't see the Saints being that much worse so I think the floor isn't significantly off. Barkley and Ingram does have a higher upside than Barkley and Kamara but it also has a lower floor. It comes down to personal preference on which you prefer but this early in the draft I like more certainty as there is plenty of time for upside later. The only scenario where both Kamara and Ingram flop is if they both get injured or the Saints take a significant step back. I'll take those odds as its about as close to a certainty as you are going to get in fantasy football. 

If we're talking  about just picking between Barkley and  Kamara, Kamara is not a  bad pick by any means - just not my  preference when compared to Barkley and the situation he's in. If you're a floor guy that def makes sense.

Edited by c27

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2 minutes ago, c27 said:

Kamara is not an every down workhouse back and Sean Payton will not use him as  such. You're getting a guy who is built for a workload.

 

I mean, Kamara isn't a small guy and I kind of debunked the significance of the "workhorse" issue in my last post. Dude put up WR2 numbers in the receiving game alone. That fact, coupled with his unparalleled big play ability eliminates the necessity of a high rushing volume.

 

To reiterate, it's totally fine that you like Barkley over Kamara. You are definitely not alone. Just stop suggesting that there is no debate to be had. FFC has Kamara one spot higher than Barkley in ADP for both standard and PPR formats, and that has always been the most reputable ADP source we use on these forums so I mean, it clearly isn't lunacy to suggest going with Kamara > Barkley.  

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1 minute ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

I mean, Kamara isn't a small guy and I kind of debunked the significance of the "workhorse" issue in my last post. Dude put up WR2 numbers in the receiving game alone. That fact, coupled with his unparalleled big play ability eliminates the necessity of a high rushing volume.

 

To reiterate, it's totally fine that you like Barkley over Kamara. You are definitely not alone. Just stop suggesting that there is no debate to be had. FFC has Kamara one spot higher than Barkley in ADP for both standard and PPR formats, and that has always been the most reputable ADP source we use on these forums so I mean, it clearly isn't lunacy to suggest going with Kamara > Barkley.  

You're back to  being  your clown self again

 

- Kamara is a beast, but he is not going to average 6.1 YPCarry and 10.1 YPCatch again, so yes he's going to need  VOLUME which is one of the biggest factors in Fantasy Football. Saquon is guaranteed it.

 

- I never said there was no debate one vs one, only Kamara+ingram vs Barkley+ingram  - once again you're putting words in other people's mouth

 

- Nobody gives a f**K about FFC  or ADP other than clowns

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1 minute ago, c27 said:

- I never said there was no debate one vs one, only Kamara+ingram vs Barkley+ingram  - once again you're putting words in other people's mouth

 

22 minutes ago, c27 said:

Barkley still has more UPSIDE than Kamara does this year and that cannot be debated.

 

59 minutes ago, c27 said:

Easy decision = Barkley > Kamara

 

Lmao. You win, dude. I don't know if we've debated in the past or something. You are kind of indicating that you know me but I don't think I've ever noticed you. I'm done though. I'm kind of going out of my way to remain fact-based and somewhat respectful while you want to name-call everyone and use hyperbole. I don't know why you're so angry but I wish you luck this year brother. Peace. 

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1 minute ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

 

 

Lmao. You win, dude. I don't know if we've debated in the past or something. You are kind of indicating that you know me but I don't think I've ever noticed you. I'm done though. I'm kind of going out of my way to remain fact-based and somewhat respectful while you want to name-call everyone and use hyperbole. I don't know why you're so angry but I wish you luck this year brother. Peace. 

Yep there ya go cherry picking again  clown.

 

If I think Kamara is going to get injured then it is an easy decision for me= Barkley > Kamara. Injury aside then Kamara not a bad pick

 - once again you decided to take this out of context

 

Barkley has more upside than Kamara. That's just a fact bro sorry if you don't know what upside means. Just because someone has more upside tho, doesn't mean they live up to it,  or is necessarily the better pick.

 

Keep trying hard, you are easy work for me.

 

 

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18 hours ago, SenatorSpaceman said:

 

When you catch 80+ balls, break 28.8% of tackles (second best in the league), average over 6 yards per rush as a rookie, and are a bigger threat to score from anywhere on the field than any other RB in the league.....there are things that sometimes supercede workload.

 

Kamara was used sparingly in NO's 3-man committee until Peterson was traded, turning it into a true RBBC with Ingram and he still managed those 81 catches with 1554 yards and 13 TDs. With the aging Ingram suspended to start the year and Kamara being a focal point from the beginning, do you see any scenario where a healthy AK is used LESS than he was last season? 

No, but do you expect him to produce at the same level of efficiency that he did last year?   Unless he is the most efficient running back in NFL history, he is due for regression.  

Edited by ccimore

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