rage2021

Nikola Jokic 2018-19 Season Outlook

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i think there are 2 sides here that will continue on till season's end.

 

1) satisfied owners that were able compensate for his weaknesses (and are probably doing well in their leagues)

 

2) unsatisfied owners that expects more and/or differently from the guy (and are probably not doing so well)

 

backreading my post, i think it applies to all early round picks.. :lol::lol:

Edited by SolariNatividad
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6 minutes ago, LW_00 said:

I dont think we should be drafting players in the first round that cant put up at least ten points in consecutive games...

 

Point is always his weakness, it's not the one that defined him to be the first rounder and that's why your team should be better off punting point if you draft him in the first round. By this logic, why would people still draft Westbrook in the first round given his FG/FT/TO are horrible

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2 minutes ago, Tom Chambers said:

...why? We draft players that can't put up assists or threes or blocks in the first round, don't we? Points are just another category, dude. 

I get that. Jokic is multi-dimensional. However, we could argue that there are 12 Players in Fantasy that are better... LBJ, KD, Embiid, KAT, Harden, Curry, Kemba, AD, Lillard, Giannis, Russell Westbrook (when healthy), and Kawhi (when ready to play back to back sets). Not to mention you have guys that are blowing away their ADP such as Nik Vucevic, THJ, Zach LaVine and Clint Capela... so where does that leave 7 ppg Week 3 Joker in Fantasy Relevance compared to Elite Players?

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20 minutes ago, fabrar said:

The scoring inconsistency is a real issue. I didn't draft him expecting 25 ppg or anything but the absolute passiveness on offense is really frustrating. I was hoping for steady 18-20 pts at least, which is what he was posting last year. 

 

he is at 16 now, so close.. :(

Edited by SolariNatividad
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8 minutes ago, LW_00 said:

I get that. Jokic is multi-dimensional. However, we could argue that there are 12 Players in Fantasy that are better... LBJ, KD, Embiid, KAT, Harden, Curry, Kemba, AD, Lillard, Giannis, Russell Westbrook (when healthy), and Kawhi (when ready to play back to back sets). Not to mention you have guys that are blowing away their ADP such as Nik Vucevic, THJ, Zach LaVine and Clint Capela... so where does that leave 7 ppg Week 3 Joker in Fantasy Relevance compared to Elite Players?

 

He's 14th with no punts. 6th if you punt points. 13th if you punt blocks. 7th if you punt both. And he's not even playing to his level. I don't play roto or points leagues so I don't know them and can't speak to them. In H2H, though, he's a first rounder. 

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33 minutes ago, fabrar said:

The scoring inconsistency is a real issue. I didn't draft him expecting 25 ppg or anything but the absolute passiveness on offense is really frustrating. I was hoping for steady 18-20 pts at least, which is what he was posting last year. 

 

He put up 16.9 ppg before the all star break last year. He put up 21.7 ppg after the break, which dragged his average up, but remember that Gary Harris was out for most of that time. Remember also that Paul Millsap was out or recovering a lot of the year.

 

The Nuggets have so many options now and Jokic is not the kind of player to look for his own shot first. He's very different mentalitywise than an Embiid. If you expected him to average 20ppg with everyone healthy and IT still yet to come then it's probably an expectations issue rather than a performance one.

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He is putting up numbers across the board, but for the members here saying you don't draft Jokic to win points, that is very FALSE. Jokic was drafted high because he can put up 20ppg and flirt with triple double every night. If you say you don't draft Jokic for steals and blocks, then that is true, but saying you don't draft Jokic to help you in points is just a funny way of defending him

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3 minutes ago, a-rob said:

He is putting up numbers across the board, but for the members here saying you don't draft Jokic to win points, that is very FALSE. Jokic was drafted high because he can put up 20ppg and flirt with triple double every night. If you say you don't draft Jokic for steals and blocks, then that is true, but saying you don't draft Jokic to help you in points is just a funny way of defending him

Yeah strange defense. If jokic doesn't score 18-20 ppg then he's essentially draymond green...with less defensive stats 

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He's so god damn beta out there. I want an alpha dog with my first pick. I've learnt my lesson.

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16 minutes ago, a-rob said:

He is putting up numbers across the board, but for the members here saying you don't draft Jokic to win points, that is very FALSE. Jokic was drafted high because he can put up 20ppg and flirt with triple double every night. If you say you don't draft Jokic for steals and blocks, then that is true, but saying you don't draft Jokic to help you in points is just a funny way of defending him

What do you mean "false"? In a snake draft, you have to take someone in the first round. Who else do you take and punt points? You don't have to, but yeah, a lot of people that took him did so with the express intention of punting points. That's not "false", read some preseason fantasy previews, it's very true. 

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10 minutes ago, Tom Chambers said:

.What do you mean "false"? In a snake draft, you have to take someone in the first round. Who else do you take and punt points? You don't have to, but yeah, a lot of people that took him did so with the express intention of punting points. That's not "false", read some preseason fantasy previews, it's very true. 

 

ADP of Jokic 8-10, year end 2017-2018 ranking 12th. Why was he taken ahead of his ranking? it's because post ASB (like he usually does in 2nd half) he averaged 21ppg with the other goodies, and was ranked even higher than 8-10 during that span.

 

So you're telling me, people who drafted Jokic 8-10 or even higher wasn't expecting he can put up 21ppg or even better than that because he is still so young? Guys drafted him 6-10 because they were expecting AT LEAST 21ppg and maybe even more.

 

Members telling us here you draft Jokic in round 1 to punt points because you honestly predicted Jokic would be in 15-17ppg only are trying to defend this guy. You were aggressive in drafting Joker because you expected at worst he is 20ppg NOT 16ppg! at 20ppg, you don't call that punt points. You can say I drafted Joker not expecting him to carry me in points, so in next rounds I draft high volume scorers like a DeRozan, then that is true. But when you are saying you draft a guy you expect to average 20ppg to punt points, that is pointless.

 

You say I draft Simmons to punt points, I draft RWB to punt TO, or throw back, I draft Ben Wallace to punt points, then that makes more sense

Edited by a-rob
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8 minutes ago, a-rob said:

You can say I drafted Joker not expecting him to carry me in points, so in next rounds I draft high volume scorers like a DeRozan, then that is true. But when you are saying you draft a guy you expect to average 20ppg to punt points, that is pointless.

 

I think this sums it up.. thank you..

Edited by SolariNatividad

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1 minute ago, a-rob said:

 

ADP of Jokic 8-10, year end 2017-2018 ranking 12th. Why was he taken ahead of his ranking? it's because post ASB (like he usually does in 2nd half) he averaged 21ppg with the other goodies, and was ranked even higher than 8-10 during that span.

 

So you're telling me, people who drafted Jokic 8-10 or even higher wasn't expecting he can put up 21ppg or even better than that because he is still so young? Guys drafted him 6-10 because they were expecting AT LEAST 21ppg and maybe even more.

 

Members telling us here you draft Jokic in round 1 to punt points because you honestly predicted Jokic would be in 15-17ppg only are trying to defend this guy. You were aggressive in drafting Joker because you expected at worst he is 20ppg NOT 16ppg! at 20ppg, you don't call that punt points. You can say I drafted Joker not expecting him to carry me in points, so in next rounds I draft high volume scorers like a DeRozan, then that is true. But when you are saying you draft a guy you expect to average 20ppg to punt points, that is pointless

I didn't draft him at all because almost all of my leagues had me drafting 1-2 or 9-12 and it was kinda annoying. I own no shares of Giannis or LeBron or Jokic, and one share of KAT, Curry, and Durant. As opposed to a s--- ton of Harden, AD, Kawhi, Lillard, Embiid, Westbrook, etc. 

 

But I'm telling you straight up that a great many people saw their draft position, saw Jokic available and were like "okay, I'm gonna punt points, hopefully Simmons/CP3/Gobert/Drummond is around for the second or third round, or both." I'm not making this up, man. Of course not everyone did, but if you were in a snake draft and you punted points, you almost assuredly drafted Jokic. That's why you're seeing so many people in this thread talk about it. He's the first rounder for that. 

 

Ya know what I'm saying? Not all stars are our sun, but our sun is a star. Not everyone who drafted Jokic is punting points, but most people in snake drafts that are punting points drafted Jokic. 

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I drafted jokic at #6 - I play roto so I expressly do not punt anything. That strategy just does not work in roto. I never for a moment expected him to avg 25 ppg or something but I think that given that he avgd 20 post asb last year, and being a year more experienced and getting a big contract he would AT LEAST be avging that exact number again - 20 pts. I don't think that's unreasonable at all to expect out of your first round pick when literally every other player taken in the top 10 - ad, Harden, giannis, kd, Bron, Lillard, curry etc all avg well in the high 20s. These paltry mid-term scoring numbers really aren't acceptable and people shouldn't be making so many excuses for it. He doesn't put up the defensive numbers to get away with it. If he was avging like 2 steals and 1.5 blks then I would be more than happy to accept low scoring. 

 

He's still a great player and he obviously has the capability to produce top 5 value. He just isn't getting it done right now and looks kind of passive a lot of the time. I'm not panicking or selling low but I am fairly disappointed. I drafted high scorers with my other picks but he's still underwhelming as a top 10 pick so far. 

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42 minutes ago, fabrar said:

 "I play roto so I expressly do not punt anything. That strategy just does not work in roto"

 

Strongly disagree!  I've won money roto leagues where I intentionally punted a cat. I've also seen it done successfully by others (Some of them are posters here that can confirm that). It's not easy, but with the right team build it can be pulled off if you dominate on multiple cats, and are only weak on that one cat.

 

Anyway, to get back on the topic with Jokic, he's currently (as of me typing this post) ranked #18 on BBM 9 cat rankings, which is good for mid second round value, but as the season goes I expect him to inch his way closer to first round value. He's not somebody you draft for points, but he's not an automatic "I gotta punt points if I draft him". Just pick some high scorers in the next rounds.

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I'm just loving my Jokic free season after last year. You guys better hope Denver fights for the playoffs spot come March so he has to start and play for real!

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I think the lack of consistency is what is driving people crazy.  If he were consistently scoring 12-20 points/night to average 16.6, you wouldn't see many complaints--maybe some mild disappointment.  The wild fluctuation (six single-digit scoring nights in a month) creates a lot more frustration.  And the fact that those games have come in stretches (this week and the first week of Nov) mean that his lack of scoring has probably cost some people one or two games. 

 

For all the talk about him not being aggressive enough, if you take out the 1-shot and 3-shot games earlier this month, he's putting up as many shots as he did last year.  The problem the last week has been that they aren't falling for him.

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20 hours ago, Tom Chambers said:

What do you mean "false"? In a snake draft, you have to take someone in the first round. Who else do you take and punt points? You don't have to, but yeah, a lot of people that took him did so with the express intention of punting points. That's not "false", read some preseason fantasy previews, it's very true. 

 

Anecdotely, in a 12-teamer I teamed Jokic  with CP3 and Draymond at which point it just made perfect sense to punt points.  

 

I was able to pair him with Curry in a 10-team and decided to punt blocks.  I picked up Middleton/Booker with the next two picks and remain competitive in points. 

 

Jokic is not lacking for that which you do not rely on him buoying. 

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2 hours ago, hoopking said:

is everyone expecting 20+ppg?  be grateful if he averages at least 13 

if you drafted him round 1 then yes I assume that is the expectation. and he was drafted in mid to late round 1 in majority of 12 team leagues.

 

I picked him over Lebron, what a mistake. Next time go with a proven track record, and more importantly with a player who has a fixed role on his team

Edited by a-rob

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Just now, EmbiidGOAT said:

Never forget post all star break last season. I expect the same again. 

yup, not only last season but the year before that too. but for H2H playoffs, you are hoping that can at least stay in contention even if your round 1 pick is giving you only late round 2 value and disappears in too many games

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19 hours ago, JormaJormala said:

I'm just loving my Jokic free season after last year. You guys better hope Denver fights for the playoffs spot come March so he has to start and play for real!

 

As a player who owned N. Jokic, what was your experience owning him?

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1 hour ago, litigator said:

 

As a player who owned N. Jokic, what was your experience owning him?

 

Incostency is the norm, but it is by his choice. You want him down low working like The Process. He could easily dominate and assert  himself every game in the post. He'd rather not do it to keep himself fresh. It's like the frustrating big guy on your rec games where he wants to make plays top of the key even when he should banging bodies around the basket. When Jokic starts to back up his defender and working on his moves there is nothing you can do. 

 

For sure he will have a run of dominance later on the season if Denver needs the wins and him to step it up.

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