DidiFan

2018-19 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread

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Just now, duke of queens said:

Yes for the competitiveness. Not sure what you mean for the game. 

 

14 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Terrible. Because honestly if I'm anyone high-up in the MLBPA and teams keep standing strong on FAs like Grandal/Moustakas at that tier and Machado/Harper in their tier, then I'm seriously considering a lockout until they revolutionize the arb-system. 

 

Baseball had a record revenue once again last year. Meanwhile payrolls dropped for the first time since 2012. More revenue, more profit, less expenses on players and more manipulation of the 6-Year Arb system. 

 

 

I think for reasons like this we could get a lockout in the next CBA. That's just my hypothesis, but I can't imagine the PA is at all happy about the develoment of the last two offseasons. 

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2 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

 

I think for reasons like this we could get a lockout in the next CBA. That's just my hypothesis, but I can't imagine the PA is at all happy about the develoment of the last two offseasons. 

I try not to get caught up in the squabbles between millionaires but I can see a strike happening again.

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18 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

 

I think for reasons like this we could get a lockout in the next CBA. That's just my hypothesis, but I can't imagine the PA is at all happy about the develoment of the last two offseasons. 

 

i wouldnt blame the players either.

 

i feel they need to argue that minors count as your rookie years.  so the clock starts the first year you are drafted, even if you are 17.  that way, teams like toronto cant just keep vlad jr down an extra year or 2

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26 minutes ago, duke of queens said:

Yes for the competitiveness. Not sure what you mean for the game. 

 

For competitiveness reasons yes but it's still a black eye for baseball that only 2 teams are willing to pay money for these players. This would never happen in the NFL or NBA. 

 

You get the chance to sign a stud player at age 26 and you are not willing to give them the dollars? This isn't Albert Pujols who was in his 30s when he signed that massive deal with the Angels. 

 

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Hmmm, if DJL gets that deal from yanks, I wonder what the market holds for Marwin?? I think he's a better player in about every way?

IF (which is unlikely in today's game) the crew could unload Thames, it might free up enough $ to do a deal with Marwin...he'd be an outstanding fit in MKE imo-

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1 minute ago, ST. STEVEN said:

Hmmm, if DJL gets that deal from yanks, I wonder what the market holds for Marwin?? I think he's a better player in about every way?

IF (which is unlikely in today's game) the crew could unload Thames, it might free up enough $ to do a deal with Marwin...he'd be an outstanding fit in MKE imo-

 

Rumors are the Crew are considering signing Josh Harrison.

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2 minutes ago, Sine_cera said:

 

Rumors are the Crew are considering signing Josh Harrison.

Yeah I don't hate that, I guess it just depends on the #s...I just really prefer a lefty hitter v RH, like Marwin...esp having the versatility to move around the diamond when Hiura is ready...

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15 minutes ago, Blood Brother said:

Good news for Danny Jansen

 

 

So the Marlins are going to have Realmuto until the ASB. 

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1 hour ago, Sine_cera said:

 

How bad will it be for baseball if the only 2 teams interested in signing studs like Machado and Harper are the Phillies and White Sox?

 

I think it is wonderful that two rebuilding teams are the favorites right now.

 

35 minutes ago, Sine_cera said:

 

For competitiveness reasons yes but it's still a black eye for baseball that only 2 teams are willing to pay money for these players. This would never happen in the NFL or NBA.

 

 

 

NFL has a cap allowing more competition from smaller teams.  (Don't know about the NBA because I have no interest in basketball nor the NHL because I can't stand hockey either). 

 

But MLB has the Luxury Tax which was suppose to work that way as a cap but it doesn't work the same at all.  No one of you seem to be adding this equation into your statements.  The tax not only punishes teams big time financially for going over the limit but now with the recent changes can gut your farm system with VERY major draft penalties.

 

If you take those penalties you have no in house players of note coming up or to use as trade bait because your drafts will always be poor.  This puts you into an endless cycle of signing aging vets for way too much money over way too many years with no way to break out of the cycle.  The system sucks.

 

I for one am glad the madness of signing human beings to play a game for more money than probably the whole junior officer corps of the entire US Army makes is finally slowing down.  It makes me mad that young men of the same age have such a disparity in pay when obviously one group just plays a game and the other group risk their lives. 

 

And the former complain because they are mere multi-millionaires as opposed to multi-multi-millionaire owners.  Give it a rest or go and start your own teams and league and see how much you will pay your employees then.  I bet you would suddenly change your tune big time.  Because in the end it is just a pot and kettle thing.  To quote the Duke of Verona:  "A plague on both your houses!"

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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38 minutes ago, Blood Brother said:

Good news for Danny Jansen

 

Questionable move by LA. Martin is clearly in full decline mode. Now they've got TWO catchers that can't hit their way out of a paper bag.

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As long as Toronto is paying alot of the deal it is what the Dodgers needed. Veteran help for a one year since catcher Ruiz is their top prospect. 

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There are definitely teams that just straight-up can't afford Harper or Machado, but it seems like it's the insistence on 8-10 year contracts that makes teams buckle and lose interest. I can't say I blame them. These contracts just don't end well and are more likely than not going to be an albatross for your franchise. Seems like shorter contracts at a higher AAV would be preferable to teams. It would also drive up yearly salaries depending on the player, which would seem to be what the union wants.

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2 minutes ago, TribeFoo said:

There are definitely teams that just straight-up can't afford Harper or Machado, but it seems like it's the insistence on 8-10 year contracts that makes teams buckle and lose interest. I can't say I blame them. These contracts just don't end well and are more likely than not going to be an albatross for your franchise. Seems like shorter contracts at a higher AAV would be preferable to teams. It would also drive up yearly salaries depending on the player, which would seem to be what the union wants.

 

Players want long term guarantees though. 

 

Alex Rodriguez's first contract he signed at 25 YO. Over the lifeitme of that contract, he EASILY earned that back. At teh end of a 10 year contract, Bryce Harper will be 36. That's not a terrifying age for someone in the AL where he can transition to being a power DH or 1B at worst. 

 

If teams weren't making money, I'd agree with you. But they are. Record revenues. Reduced payrolls. Those two things should not ever coincide. There is money to be spent, even if it's not the Rays or A's, on Machado and Harper. These teams pinching their pennies is foolish. 

 

This is the system you get when you force players into making 500K despite performance for the first three years, and refusing to allow them to enter an open market until after 6 years. The fact that even the Phillies or the White SOx aren't willing to just pay the little extra money to make it easy is nonsense. 

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25 minutes ago, taobball said:

This is the system you get when you force players into making 500K despite performance for the first three years, and refusing to allow them to enter an open market until after 6 years. 

 

MLB may loose a bright young start to the NFL for that ^ reason.

 

 

 

kyler.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

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Lowrie and Lemeihu signings are just annoying. They don't really move the needle much for either team, but make it difficult to predict at bats.  Guys like Torres, Andujar, Rosario, Conforto, Nimmo, Voit could all lose some at bats now.

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2 hours ago, duke of queens said:

$12 mil per to ride the pine is a lot even for the Yanks.

Seems like they intend to play him across the INF.  Whatever value his bat adds would seem to be off-set by his likely below average defense if he does not have the arm/range at 3rd and has never played 1B.  My hope was that Voit would be provided every opportunity to play 1B full-time, but figured Bird would still be in the mix.  The signings of Tulo and now DJ have complicated that scenario. 

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3 minutes ago, Eddie Mush said:

Steam picking up on Harper to Phillies

 

If Phillies successfully add Machado or Harper, I go from googly eyes to cartoon awooga eyes on Cesar Hernandez and Jean Segura if they bat 1-2. 

 

e6bbe0c0834cb6788a9a537b2f16fa74.jpg

 

And probably McCutchen too. 

Edited by taobball
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3 minutes ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

Phillies are getting both. Mark my words!

 

giphy.gif

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1 hour ago, TribeFoo said:

There are definitely teams that just straight-up can't afford Harper or Machado, but it seems like it's the insistence on 8-10 year contracts that makes teams buckle and lose interest. I can't say I blame them. These contracts just don't end well and are more likely than not going to be an albatross for your franchise. Seems like shorter contracts at a higher AAV would be preferable to teams. It would also drive up yearly salaries depending on the player, which would seem to be what the union wants.

 

1 hour ago, taobball said:

 

Players want long term guarantees though. 

 

Alex Rodriguez's first contract he signed at 25 YO. Over the lifeitme of that contract, he EASILY earned that back. At teh end of a 10 year contract, Bryce Harper will be 36. That's not a terrifying age for someone in the AL where he can transition to being a power DH or 1B at worst. 

 

If teams weren't making money, I'd agree with you. But they are. Record revenues. Reduced payrolls. Those two things should not ever coincide. There is money to be spent, even if it's not the Rays or A's, on Machado and Harper. These teams pinching their pennies is foolish. 

 

This is the system you get when you force players into making 500K despite performance for the first three years, and refusing to allow them to enter an open market until after 6 years. The fact that even the Phillies or the White SOx aren't willing to just pay the little extra money to make it easy is nonsense. 

 

Let's be very clear on this topic of long term contracts not working out, because it is a stigma that kills players, aides teams, and is fundamentally INACCURATE.

 

Let's look at two terrible FA/Extension contracts, Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera

 

Both terrible contracts. Both have not lived up to expectations.

 

BUT. Let's look at them at 26-31

 

Albert Pujols: 43.7 WAR, 7.3 WAR per Season

Miguel Cabrera: 38.5 WAR, 6.4 WAR per Season.


There is NO WAY, based on current revenues, that Cabrera and Pujols wouldn't earn 300+ Million contracts with these numbers on 10 year contracts. There's just no way. 

 

Players hit the open market at old ages, and then don't pan out when they're past their prime and sign deals from 31-41. And then the narrative becomes "Oh, long term deals don't work out." 

 

Bryce Harper 26 YO. Manny Machado is 26 YO. These are incredible players on the precipice of their primes. I'm begging my team to drop 300 Million on them if I'm any organization that finds it theoretically viable. I'm begging for one as a Cubs fan. This stalled market is stupid and teams that don't have space but have big markets like the Dodgers and Cubs should stop being stupid and start taking advantage. 

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2 hours ago, taobball said:

 

Players want long term guarantees though. 

 

Alex Rodriguez's first contract he signed at 25 YO. Over the lifeitme of that contract, he EASILY earned that back. At teh end of a 10 year contract, Bryce Harper will be 36. That's not a terrifying age for someone in the AL where he can transition to being a power DH or 1B at worst. 

 

If teams weren't making money, I'd agree with you. But they are. Record revenues. Reduced payrolls. Those two things should not ever coincide. There is money to be spent, even if it's not the Rays or A's, on Machado and Harper. These teams pinching their pennies is foolish. 

 

This is the system you get when you force players into making 500K despite performance for the first three years, and refusing to allow them to enter an open market until after 6 years. The fact that even the Phillies or the White SOx aren't willing to just pay the little extra money to make it easy is nonsense. 

Ya but the front offices have wised up they don't want to be paying big money to guys 32-33 and up, if they sign either of these guys to a 10 year deal they are stuck with them until age 36 unless you really front load the contract

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1 hour ago, taobball said:

 

 

Let's be very clear on this topic of long term contracts not working out, because it is a stigma that kills players, aides teams, and is fundamentally INACCURATE.

 

Let's look at two terrible FA/Extension contracts, Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera

 

Both terrible contracts. Both have not lived up to expectations.

 

BUT. Let's look at them at 26-31

 

Albert Pujols: 43.7 WAR, 7.3 WAR per Season

Miguel Cabrera: 38.5 WAR, 6.4 WAR per Season.


There is NO WAY, based on current revenues, that Cabrera and Pujols wouldn't earn 300+ Million contracts with these numbers on 10 year contracts. There's just no way. 

 

Players hit the open market at old ages, and then don't pan out when they're past their prime and sign deals from 31-41. And then the narrative becomes "Oh, long term deals don't work out." 

 

Bryce Harper 26 YO. Manny Machado is 26 YO. These are incredible players on the precipice of their primes. I'm begging my team to drop 300 Million on them if I'm any organization that finds it theoretically viable. I'm begging for one as a Cubs fan. This stalled market is stupid and teams that don't have space but have big markets like the Dodgers and Cubs should stop being stupid and start taking advantage. 

I wouldn't give a 26 year old a ten year deal, you mention those two deals, how about A Rod's last deal? How's is Stanton's deal going to look near the end?

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9 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

I wouldn't give a 26 year old a ten year deal

 

why not? (depending on who said 26 yo is)

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