wisegeeks

LA Lakers 2018-2019 Season Thread

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Haven't seen any team threads here. We used to have it here right?

 

What are your thoughts with the LA Lakers in general?

The early struggles with the lineups/rotations?

The recent change against DAL when they only played Rondo for 17 mins.

Do Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and Lonzo Ball have superstar potential?

 

 

Below is my take:

 

I'm a Lonzo Ball owner and (probably a fan as well). But I'm a Laker fan first.

 

Rondo on their first 2 games actually did very well and made Lonzo look tradeable.

However, since he and Ingram got suspended, I thought that the Lakers looked more fluid when Lonzo is at the helm.

Kyle Kuzma and Jason Hart's games got unleashed together with the entire LAL offense.

 

When Rondo came back, I thought it was a good decision by Luke Walton to keep Lonzo as a starter.

But it never actually mattered because majority of Lonzo's minutes were together with Rondo.

In that game against  the T-Wolves, Luke actually played Rondo the entire Q4!

 

But everything changed last game against DAL. They only played Rondo 17 minutes and they put together a solid starting lineup of:

Lonzo, Ingram, LeBron, Kuzma and McGee

and a closing lineup of:

Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma and LeBron

 

^ and it has to stay like that the rest of the season.

 

Below are some of my observations on how each of the LAL players impact each other:

 

We got 3 Ball Dominant players:

- LeBron, Rondo and Lance. The main difference between the 3?

LeBron can play off-ball either at the high post or the perimeter or even in the low block (if he wishes to). Lance can play off-ball as a spot-up shooter.

But Rondo can't play off-ball. He just sets screens (for LeBron mostly) and tells teammates where to go. If he gives up the ball, it's mostly to let someone play ISO.

 

So I'm not really sure what you want to happen if you let these 3 play together? (below screenshot when I was watching that game).

Lance can spot-up shoot, but he's no Kyle Korver. He's at this best when he's dancing and creating for the team.

You can only have 2 ball dominant players in a lineup, as long as one of them can play off-ball. (have to think of other players similar to Rondo who can't play off-ball)

Image may contain: one or more people, people playing sports and basketball court

 

On Lonzo

Lonzo Ball is more effective with the ball - YES, but he is not a ball dominant player. He gives up the ball early. He passes it not just to get an AST (like what CP3 and Rondo does) but also when his teammates are in a proper position to score, make a play, or make an AST themselves. He is such a pass first point guard that there are times when it's detrimental to the team.

 

Can Lonzo play off-ball?

I don't know but he really NEEDS A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT on being confident with his shot and having a shoot-first mentality.

If he can be a 40% 3PTM shooter (together with his passing, defense and overall game impact) then it can make him an ALL-STAR PG

But being able to attack and finish at the rim with his size, length and athleticism, that is what will make him a SUPERSTAR.

 

 

Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma

The main reason why Kyle Kuzma is flourishing in the NBA is because of his ability to move without the ball and be in advantageous scoring positions. Of course, his size, versatility and a vast array of offensive moves is what makes him play like that. The former is basketball IQ and the latter is skill/talent. Playing with willing passers such as LeBron, Rondo, Stephenson and Ball also makes things easier as he can maintain that same scoring mindset while improving his defense.

 

Brandon Ingram is a different story altogether. I actually thought that the arrival of LeBron will do him more harm than good because I thought he can't play off-ball. But being versatile and as talented as he is - he can play both. He was successful at being ball-dominant when he played PG last season. But early signs are also showing that he can also move around the court without the ball and put himself in scoring positions. Big Kudos to the LAL coaching staff as it is evident in their offensive sets to run a lot of those basket cuts for BI.

 

Kyle Kuzma has the easier path to become a SUPERSTAR by perfecting his strengths and probably have a more advanced dribble-penetration game.

Brandon Ingram's path is more difficult because he is more skilled than Kyle but if he can advance all facets of his game, off-ball, shoot, penetrate, facilitate, then his SUPERSTARDOM has a higher ceiling.

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 11:04 PM, wisegeeks said:

Haven't seen any team threads here. We used to have it here right?

 

What are your thoughts with the LA Lakers in general?

The early struggles with the lineups/rotations?

The recent change against DAL when they only played Rondo for 17 mins.

Do Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and Lonzo Ball have superstar potential?

 

 

Below is my take:

 

I'm a Lonzo Ball owner and (probably a fan as well). But I'm a Laker fan first.

 

Rondo on their first 2 games actually did very well and made Lonzo look tradeable.

However, since he and Ingram got suspended, I thought that the Lakers looked more fluid when Lonzo is at the helm.

Kyle Kuzma and Jason Hart's games got unleashed together with the entire LAL offense.

 

When Rondo came back, I thought it was a good decision by Luke Walton to keep Lonzo as a starter.

But it never actually mattered because majority of Lonzo's minutes were together with Rondo.

In that game against  the T-Wolves, Luke actually played Rondo the entire Q4!

 

But everything changed last game against DAL. They only played Rondo 17 minutes and they put together a solid starting lineup of:

Lonzo, Ingram, LeBron, Kuzma and McGee

and a closing lineup of:

Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Kuzma and LeBron

 

^ and it has to stay like that the rest of the season.

 

Below are some of my observations on how each of the LAL players impact each other:

 

We got 3 Ball Dominant players:

- LeBron, Rondo and Lance. The main difference between the 3?

LeBron can play off-ball either at the high post or the perimeter or even in the low block (if he wishes to). Lance can play off-ball as a spot-up shooter.

But Rondo can't play off-ball. He just sets screens (for LeBron mostly) and tells teammates where to go. If he gives up the ball, it's mostly to let someone play ISO.

 

So I'm not really sure what you want to happen if you let these 3 play together? (below screenshot when I was watching that game).

Lance can spot-up shoot, but he's no Kyle Korver. He's at this best when he's dancing and creating for the team.

You can only have 2 ball dominant players in a lineup, as long as one of them can play off-ball. (have to think of other players similar to Rondo who can't play off-ball)

Image may contain: one or more people, people playing sports and basketball court

 

On Lonzo

Lonzo Ball is more effective with the ball - YES, but he is not a ball dominant player. He gives up the ball early. He passes it not just to get an AST (like what CP3 and Rondo does) but also when his teammates are in a proper position to score, make a play, or make an AST themselves. He is such a pass first point guard that there are times when it's detrimental to the team.

 

Can Lonzo play off-ball?

I don't know but he really NEEDS A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT on being confident with his shot and having a shoot-first mentality.

If he can be a 40% 3PTM shooter (together with his passing, defense and overall game impact) then it can make him an ALL-STAR PG

But being able to attack and finish at the rim with his size, length and athleticism, that is what will make him a SUPERSTAR.

 

 

Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma

The main reason why Kyle Kuzma is flourishing in the NBA is because of his ability to move without the ball and be in advantageous scoring positions. Of course, his size, versatility and a vast array of offensive moves is what makes him play like that. The former is basketball IQ and the latter is skill/talent. Playing with willing passers such as LeBron, Rondo, Stephenson and Ball also makes things easier as he can maintain that same scoring mindset while improving his defense.

 

Brandon Ingram is a different story altogether. I actually thought that the arrival of LeBron will do him more harm than good because I thought he can't play off-ball. But being versatile and as talented as he is - he can play both. He was successful at being ball-dominant when he played PG last season. But early signs are also showing that he can also move around the court without the ball and put himself in scoring positions. Big Kudos to the LAL coaching staff as it is evident in their offensive sets to run a lot of those basket cuts for BI.

 

Kyle Kuzma has the easier path to become a SUPERSTAR by perfecting his strengths and probably have a more advanced dribble-penetration game.

Brandon Ingram's path is more difficult because he is more skilled than Kyle but if he can advance all facets of his game, off-ball, shoot, penetrate, facilitate, then his SUPERSTARDOM has a higher ceiling.

 

 

Agree with most of the points u made here, Ingram will be better served as the primary option in the 2nd unit, but I dont see it happening with Luke. Same with rondo, he needs the ball in his hands, lonzo is a better off-guard. Lebron's success in previous teams require off ball spot up shooters, which us why kuzma and hart is the better fit. Ingram in the 2nd unit will also help because the lakers tend to lose leads or get in a deeper hole with the current 2nd unit. Rondo cant really defend anymore.

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Biggest and most interesting question for  me is: "Will Lakers make playoffs this season?"   As I was saying in other threads, I am not so sure, 7th seed at the best.  Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets,  Utah, Thunder, Pelicans are all in (in my opinion).  Spurs are 90% in (also in my opinion). DeRozan playing makes SA team much better this year  than last year SA  team that made it (despite Kawhi playing only 9 games).

 

So that leaves Lakers, Wolves, Rockets, Grizzlies, Clippers  to  fight for the last spot. 

Keep in mind that 10% of the season is already gone. That is enough of sample size to give you  an idea how team will perform this year

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15 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

Biggest and most interesting question for  me is: "Will Lakers make playoffs this season?"   As I was saying in other threads, I am not so sure, 7th seed at the best.  Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets,  Utah, Thunder, Pelicans are all in (in my opinion).  Spurs are 90% in (also in my opinion). DeRozan playing makes SA team much better this year  than last year SA  team that made it (despite Kawhi playing only 9 games).

 

So that leaves Lakers, Wolves, Rockets, Grizzlies, Clippers  to  fight for the last spot. 

Keep in mind that 10% of the season is already gone. That is enough of sample size to give you  an idea how team will perform this year

We will have a better idea in the next 10 games, remember lebrons first year with Mia, they started 10-8. Also, the early suspensions along with ball just coming back from injury without a real training camp threw them off track a little bit. My concern is I dont know if lebron can stay healthy at the pace they're playing.

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lol listing the Clippers and grizzlies in the same tier, that's major recency bias. lakers will get in, blazers suck and Lebron's teams often start slow due to high turnover

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2 minutes ago, panthers93 said:

lol listing the Clippers and grizzlies in the same tier, that's major recency bias. lakers will get in, blazers suck and Lebron's teams often start slow due to high turnover

Blazers suck?   Same team as last year and now they  a big (Collins) that can shoot 3s and block shots.  

LeBron is missing that 2nd and 3rd star.  I think that Wade/Bosh or Love/Irving are  much, much better that any other Laker combo from current team.

I just don't see it this year in loaded West.

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54 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

Biggest and most interesting question for  me is: "Will Lakers make playoffs this season?"   As I was saying in other threads, I am not so sure, 7th seed at the best.  Warriors, Blazers, Nuggets,  Utah, Thunder, Pelicans are all in (in my opinion).  Spurs are 90% in (also in my opinion). DeRozan playing makes SA team much better this year  than last year SA  team that made it (despite Kawhi playing only 9 games).

 

So that leaves Lakers, Wolves, Rockets, Grizzlies, Clippers  to  fight for the last spot. 

Keep in mind that 10% of the season is already gone. That is enough of sample size to give you  an idea how team will perform this year

 

Enough sample size 10% in, then the Rockets, Thunder and Lakers are not even in the conversation. You should be talking about Nuggets, Grizzlies and Kings fighting for the last spot.

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10 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

 

Enough sample size 10% in, then the Rockets, Thunder and Lakers are not even in the conversation. You should be talking about Nuggets, Grizzlies and Kings fighting for the last spot.

Well I said "Keep in mind that 10% of the season is already gone. That is enough of sample size to give you  an idea how team will perform this year". 

In other words, Lakers, Wolves, Rockets, Grizzlies and Clippers will fight to meet expectations that teams had before season started.

 

I will revisit this thread in the spring, that should be  big enough sample size. For the sake of all Lakers fans, I hope their team is in playoffs.

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and they now have Chandler whom might split minutes with Javale

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What I'm seeing from the Lakers besides Walton playing with the rotation is that, he doesn't know who to use in the second unit and who his best defense guys are. He benched Pope for Hart but the Lakers are still getting scored on and giving up big leads. Its good that they can score but defense wins games. McGee has been god send for them as Zubac hasn't really worked out for them (Chandler might help but he is 36). Small ball lineup has been decent, but again they give up a lot of size and lots of offensive rebounds. Walton is stuck in a position where he is trying to figure out which personnel is best for his "death" lineup because of course the end goal is to beat the Warriors (if they even get that far).

 

From what I've seen their best starting lineup should be: Ball, Hart, Kuzma, Lebron, McGee

The second unit to control pace and tempo should be: Rondo, Pope, Stephenson, Ingram, (5?)

 

I don't know honestly what they are using Beasley for and Johnathan Williams has been a bright spot but again not utilized correctly. A coaching change won't help Magic Johnson as he is the one who signed up these players for 1 year deals so I don't understand how you can be mad at Walton with the personnel he was given. They are 3-5, which isn't that bad. Of course being the "Lakers" the expectations are huge especially with Lebron coming from 7 straight finals (or is it 8 lost count), but at least they are not like Houston, Cleveland or Wizards.

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3 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

Blazers suck?   Same team as last year and now they  a big (Collins) that can shoot 3s and block shots.  

LeBron is missing that 2nd and 3rd star.  I think that Wade/Bosh or Love/Irving are  much, much better that any other Laker combo from current team.

I just don't see it this year in loaded West.

so anyway as i was saying blazers aren't one of the top 8 teams in the west. Lakers are killing them in Portland and they're not even playing well

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23 minutes ago, panthers93 said:

so anyway as i was saying blazers aren't one of the top 8 teams in the west. Lakers are killing them in Portland and they're not even playing well

 

Spoke to soon. Lakers can’t even hold a 20 point lead. 

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20 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

 

Spoke to soon. Lakers can’t even hold a 20 point lead. 

excuse you? i didn't do anything too soon and i said they weren't playing well 

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LAL win. It was this close to another Q4 collapse.


Rajon Rondo seems to have the Blazers number. That's why he looked good in their season opener.

The entire pace changes during Q4 as they rely heavily on LeBron to dictate.

 

Lonzo was at a mess from the tip-off. Playing on the road, missed shots, turnovers, can't lock-down Dame or CJ.

I think confidence is a really big factor for him - and the coaching staff and veterans will be a huge help for him (if they do offer support)

 

My point still stands. Rondo should play off-the bench as he can clearly get others to play at a certain gear.

The casualty will be Lance's ISO game - he has to adjust then.

Lonzo can be taken out whenever he messes up big time since they also need to start winning.

^ and whenever that happens, he is on the front seat to learn from Rajon.

 

Good Game well played Lakers!!

 

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ingram will break out soon, lebron is just hindering his game, but he’s the clear cut best out of the youngsters. 

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They certainly putting on a show again. That's what matters. They're not going to win a chip this year and LeBron knows this. Just pure entertainment.

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14 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

They certainly putting on a show again. That's what matters. They're not going to win a chip this year and LeBron knows this. Just pure entertainment.

Good entertainment indeed, but I would love to see Laker/Celtics final to go along with Rams/Patriots Superbowl to follow up a Dodgers/Sox World Series. LA vs Boston all year

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It was a sad day for LAL. Completely outplayed in Q1. Last time against Blazers, bulk of the blame was on Lonzo. But this time it was more on the passiveness of LeBron and the rest of the team.

 

Closing lineup of Lonzo, Svi, Hart, Ingram and Kuzma showed a lot of energy as they cut down the lead to 7. But it was too little too late.

 

As Luke has said, they have always played good basketball for 3 to 3.5 quarters - mostly it was half a quarter of bad play in the 4th. This time it was the entire Q1.

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Why do we have this Lakers fan thread here? I don't see how is this relevant to fantasy basketball. Btw, great game losing to Raptors without Kawhi. Lakers are definitely looking like playoff team so far :D

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33 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

Why do we have this Lakers fan thread here? I don't see how is this relevant to fantasy basketball. Btw, great game losing to Raptors without Kawhi. Lakers are definitely looking like playoff team so far :D

 

It depends on what kind of fantasy analyst you are. Based on my experience, it can comprise of below:

 

1. Stats-based: box scores etc

2. Watch Video Highlights

3. Watch Full length Games

4. Updates from fantasy sites (feeds, articles, videos)

5. Exchange ideas in fantasy forums/facebook groups about a player, game, or a team

6. And so much more

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2 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

Why do we have this Lakers fan thread here? I don't see how is this relevant to fantasy basketball. Btw, great game losing to Raptors without Kawhi. Lakers are definitely looking like playoff team so far :D

 

The main forums are for fantasy relevant news or general NBA basketball discussion, so having team threads to discuss their overall NBA situation is not only allowed, it's often encouraged as long as folks can adhere to the rules.  Nothing wrong with this thread and it's not only for fandom here.  Folks are more than welcome to discuss the Lakers with critical analysis as long as their behavior isn't trolling or flaming.  If you have a point to make about the Lakers fortunes or struggles, that's fair game too.

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if these guys replaced Lance with another guy like hart they'd be a million times better once tyson Chandler joins the team next game

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5 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

Why do we have this Lakers fan thread here? I don't see how is this relevant to fantasy basketball. Btw, great game losing to Raptors without Kawhi. Lakers are definitely looking like playoff team so far :D

Eh it was a 2nd game of a B2B and the Raptors are 1st in the standings. I don't see how losing 1 game to the best team in the NBA so far disqualifies them from being playoff bound. I expected better from your Lakers avatar, then again it's Vlade.:D

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1 hour ago, DezedandConfused said:

Eh it was a 2nd game of a B2B and the Raptors are 1st in the standings. I don't see how losing 1 game to the best team in the NBA so far disqualifies them from being playoff bound. I expected better from your Lakers avatar, then again it's Vlade.:D

Interesting.   Lakers win against Portland, everything is fine.  Both teams start B2B.   Second game, Portland wins by 30 against Minnesota.  Lakers ...   they lose to Toronto without their best player.  In convincing fashion.  

It is time to turn things around or thicks will get really tricky.  Last year 47-35 record was enough for 8th place.  Assuming this year is the same, Lakers need to go 43-29 the rest of the way.   That is what concerns me.    

 

Lakers are my 3rd favorite NBA team, after Spurs (just  because they play as a team) and Raptors (me being from Canada).    I still think that trading Vlade  for Kobe was terrible trade for Lakers :P

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