kyoun1e

Steeler Fake FG For TD -- Scoring

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

I never said my scoring system was the only way to play, in fact I play multiple different scoring systems. But being able to get 2 TDs for the same play (return TD for the player & the DST) is pretty bush league. Should be one or the other IMO. No need to be so sensitive about your settings.

I take it that you're anti QB + WR/TE stack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So just because the kicker is a “specialist” and threw a TD it should be credited to special teams? Most leagues start kickers and if a kicker throws the Td he should get credit and whoever caught it, in this case Villanueva, gets credit for a receiving TD. This reminds me of an arguement I had years ago in a league where we started team QBs each week and the week Miami first used the wildcat I was playing the guy with Miami’s QB and he got so mad that Ronnie Brown received credit for those 5 TDs because he lined up a QB so therefore he was should of been counted as Miami’s QB.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am commish in our league and nearly lost because of the play. I wouldn't change scoring rules during the season no matter how upset an owner was, but it is definitely going to be one we talk about in the off season heading into next year. Kinda feels like a D/ST score to me, but will put it to a vote. I can see both sides of this argument.

 

What if the Saints run a fake FG and sneak Brees in to hold or something like that? If he throws a TD, I know that owner would be pitching a fit if he didn't get credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Onion said:

I am commish in our league and nearly lost because of the play. I wouldn't change scoring rules during the season no matter how upset an owner was, but it is definitely going to be one we talk about in the off season heading into next year. Kinda feels like a D/ST score to me, but will put it to a vote. I can see both sides of this argument.

 

What if the Saints run a fake FG and sneak Brees in to hold or something like that? If he throws a TD, I know that owner would be pitching a fit if he didn't get credit.

I don't even think you can change your setting to give DST that passing TD.  Even though they were set up in field goal formation they are on offense.  I have never seen a setting where you can do that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say give the points to the player who threw the touchdown. Just like you give the points to the kicker who kicks the field goal. If I'm not mistaken, back in the day quarterbacks used to kick (I know they punted and have seen Roethlisberger do it), not sure if they kicked FGs but let's say the kicker gets injured and Big Ben kicks a FG. It's an offensive play that has nothing to do with the D/ST. Same as throwing a touchdown on fourth down. The Pitt kicker wouldn't get credit for Ben's FG and neither would the Defense. 

Similarly, think of a fake punt. People aren't up in arms when a punter throws a long wide open TD pass on a fake punt and the defense doesnt get credit for it. The punter gets the pass yards and the pass TD because he threw the ball. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

I take it that you're anti QB + WR/TE stack?

 

Apples and oranges. 2 players involved in a passing TD, only one player scores a return TD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, youngrice said:

I don't even think you can change your setting to give DST that passing TD.  Even though they were set up in field goal formation they are on offense.  I have never seen a setting where you can do that.  

 

Interesting. Just looked through the settings available on Yahoo and you are correct. Looks like I will save myself the trouble and not bring it up. We would have to switch platforms to change it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 minutes ago, cbsholy said:

I'd say give the points to the player who threw the touchdown. Just like you give the points to the kicker who kicks the field goal. If I'm not mistaken, back in the day quarterbacks used to kick (I know they punted and have seen Roethlisberger do it), not sure if they kicked FGs but let's say the kicker gets injured and Big Ben kicks a FG. It's an offensive play that has nothing to do with the D/ST. Same as throwing a touchdown on fourth down. The Pitt kicker wouldn't get credit for Ben's FG and neither would the Defense. 

Similarly, think of a fake punt. People aren't up in arms when a punter throws a long wide open TD pass on a fake punt and the defense doesnt get credit for it. The punter gets the pass yards and the pass TD because he threw the ball. 

Its that what was done.  Boswell got 11.25 scoring in my league.  Only way kicker could get fractional scoring in my league is if he got the passing td.

 

Completely agree with rest.  We see fake punts that go as td's multiple times a year and I never heard anybody complaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's called a trick play for a reason.  It is still an offensive play you just have different players playing different positions.  The kicker becomes the QB and the Lineman becomes a WR.  It's not that complicated.  There is nothing to do with special teams about it.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

Apples and oranges. 2 players involved in a passing TD, only one player scores a return TD. 

A return TD is a defensive TD (see previous post).

I've never played IDP, so I don't know if those ever/usually include DSTs in addition, but I assume if you have Marcus Peters and Rams DST and he gets a pick 6, both get credit for the TD.

DST is simply a position, just like QB or WR or K.

When OBJ (WR) throws a TD to Saquan (RB), both get points for a TD - doesn't matter that it wasn't a QB throwing it.

True, on a return TD only one player touches the ball - fair point - but I don't think it's wrong to credit a Tyreek Hill return TD just as if Chiefs DST threw a TD pass to Tyreek.

Otherwise, who do you take the TD away from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

A return TD is a defensive TD (see previous post).

I've never played IDP, so I don't know if those ever/usually include DSTs in addition, but I assume if you have Marcus Peters and Rams DST and he gets a pick 6, both get credit for the TD.

DST is simply a position, just like QB or WR or K.

When OBJ (WR) throws a TD to Saquan (RB), both get points for a TD - doesn't matter that it wasn't a QB throwing it.

True, on a return TD only one player touches the ball - fair point - but I don't think it's wrong to credit a Tyreek Hill return TD just as if Chiefs DST threw a TD pass to Tyreek.

Otherwise, who do you take the TD away from?

 

In all the leagues I’ve ever played if the individual players get credit for the return TD then the team doesn’t... e.g. Tyreek gets credit for a punt return TD but Chiefs DST (or really in this case Chiefs DEF) would get credit for any fumble or interception returns. That’s the way I’ve always played. One or the other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

In all the leagues I’ve ever played if the individual players get credit for the return TD then the team doesn’t... e.g. Tyreek gets credit for a punt return TD but Chiefs DST (or really in this case Chiefs DEF) would get credit for any fumble or interception returns. That’s the way I’ve always played. One or the other.

So if a player eligible to be rostered (likely a WR or RB) is your DST's return man, your DST can never get points for a kick/punt return TD?

That is, unless a player who can't be rostered is the one who returns kicks, your DST could never get points for a kick return TD?

That doesn't make sense 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

It is a special teams TD because the FG unit was on the field.  That is part of the special teams.

 

It didn't count in my league, though.  Sad.

This. I don’t have either of these guys, but the special teams unit was on the field, how would they not get the points for the td?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SadFaceHappy said:

So if a player eligible to be rostered (likely a WR or RB) is your DST's return man, your DST can never get points for a kick/punt return TD?

That is, unless a player who can't be rostered is the one who returns kicks, your DST could never get points for a kick return TD?

That doesn't make sense 

How doesn't it make sense.  I just don't get why people have such a hard time with this it has happened many times over the years.  I mean no difference then when Watt caught TD's for Houston out of the TE spot.  Unless you play in IDP and have Watt you don't get credit for those TD's.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Panthers8912 said:

This. I don’t have either of these guys, but the special teams unit was on the field, how would they not get the points for the td?

 

It doesn't matter if a special teams unit was on the field, a special teams play did not take place.  Every special teams play is initiated by a kicker KICKING the football, it signifies a change in possession:   Kickoffs, Onside, Filed Goals and a Punt.  Until the KICK actually takes place it doesn't matter what players are on the field its still an offensive play. 

 

10 hours ago, youngrice said:

How doesn't it make sense.  I just don't get why people have such a hard time with this it has happened many times over the years.  I mean no difference then when Watt caught TD's for Houston out of the TE spot.  Unless you play in IDP and have Watt you don't get credit for those TD's.  

 

Maybe the confusion is IDP leagues vs non IDP leagues?  I get not awarding both in an IDP league, as you don't own a whole defense but only specific players but in non IDP leagues both should get credit otherwise it hamstrings a few D/ST from potential ownership. 

 

T. Hill, Kamara, Cohen, Lockett, ODJB, P. Lindsay and C. Kirk have all returned kicks/punts this season in some sort of capacity.  IMO I would rather have those players have a little extra value vs devaluing a D/ST that is typically already fairly limited when it comes to scoring anyways. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, youngrice said:

How doesn't it make sense.  I just don't get why people have such a hard time with this it has happened many times over the years.  I mean no difference then when Watt caught TD's for Houston out of the TE spot.  Unless you play in IDP and have Watt you don't get credit for those TD's.  

Because it was an offensive play, not a defensive score such as an interception, fumble, kick, punt, or blocked kick/punt return TD

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Flynfiesta6 said:

 

It doesn't matter if a special teams unit was on the field, a special teams play did not take place.  Every special teams play is initiated by a kicker KICKING the football, it signifies a change in possession:   Kickoffs, Onside, Filed Goals and a Punt.  Until the KICK actually takes place it doesn't matter what players are on the field its still an offensive play. 

 

 

Maybe the confusion is IDP leagues vs non IDP leagues?  I get not awarding both in an IDP league, as you don't own a whole defense but only specific players but in non IDP leagues both should get credit otherwise it hamstrings a few D/ST from potential ownership. 

 

T. Hill, Kamara, Cohen, Lockett, ODJB, P. Lindsay and C. Kirk have all returned kicks/punts this season in some sort of capacity.  IMO I would rather have those players have a little extra value vs devaluing a D/ST that is typically already fairly limited when it comes to scoring anyways. 

 

Ok but when watt is playing TE the defense isn’t on the field so it makes sense the defense doesn’t get points. A fake punt pass is a special teams play anyways. The special teams unit is on the field. The offense isn’t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Panthers8912 said:

Ok but when watt is playing TE the defense isn’t on the field so it makes sense the defense doesn’t get points. A fake punt pass is a special teams play anyways. The special teams unit is on the field. The offense isn’t. 

Years ago in the playoffs when the Patriots were killing the Broncos and Brady punted on 3rd down was that an offensive play or special teams play?  It was a special teams play because he kicked the ball, personnel has no affect on how a play is classified.

Edited by Ddam2013
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so by everyones logic if the steelers had kicked the FG then the defense/st would get the points and not the kicker seeing everyone is saying it was a special teams play. give it up already its alost been a week there isnt gonna be a scoring change in your league if it hasnt happened by now. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, nygiantsfan913 said:

so by everyones logic if the steelers had kicked the FG then the defense/st would get the points and not the kicker seeing everyone is saying it was a special teams play. give it up already its alost been a week there isnt gonna be a scoring change in your league if it hasnt happened by now. 

Not sure why people even think it would be a special teams play. By their logic, extra points belong to special teams too, not the kicker. The personnel doesn’t matter. They are ST personnel, but it’s not a ST play. It’s a fake. It’s a real play disguised by a ST formation. Special Teams are personnel in for KICKING PLAYS. A fake FG is not a kicking play.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2018 at 9:08 PM, smeeze said:

 

In all the leagues I’ve ever played if the individual players get credit for the return TD then the team doesn’t... e.g. Tyreek gets credit for a punt return TD but Chiefs DST (or really in this case Chiefs DEF) would get credit for any fumble or interception returns. That’s the way I’ve always played. One or the other.

In my league the player and the dense get the points. So if you have a Tyreek Hill then you’d get the points and whoever has the D/ST would get points too. And according to Yahoo that’s standard in their public leagues.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, FitzMagic said:

In my league the player and the dense get the points. So if you have a Tyreek Hill then you’d get the points and whoever has the D/ST would get points too. And according to Yahoo that’s standard in their public leagues.

 

I don’t play yahoo or espn public leagues, and just because those are their “standard” settings, doesn’t mean they make sense. Those type of leagues cater to the lowest common denominator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, smeeze said:

 

I don’t play yahoo or espn public leagues, and just because those are their “standard” settings, doesn’t mean they make sense. Those type of leagues cater to the lowest common denominator. 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Panthers8912 said:

Ok but when watt is playing TE the defense isn’t on the field so it makes sense the defense doesn’t get points. A fake punt pass is a special teams play anyways. The special teams unit is on the field. The offense isn’t. 

 

You said it yourself, FAKE.  If it was a real punt or in this case a FG the ball would have been KICKED signifying a special teams play. no KICK no special teams play.  If the kicker would have had the ball snapped directly to him and tried to run it in, he would have been credited with a rushing attempt.  Its an offensive play till the ball is KICKED, this isn't that hard.

 

10 hours ago, Ddam2013 said:

Years ago in the playoffs when the Patriots were killing the Broncos and Brady punted on 3rd down was that an offensive play or special teams play?  It was a special teams play because he kicked the ball, personnel has no affect on how a play is classified.

Exactly.

 

3 hours ago, FitzMagic said:

Not sure why people even think it would be a special teams play. By their logic, extra points belong to special teams too, not the kicker. The personnel doesn’t matter. They are ST personnel, but it’s not a ST play. It’s a fake. It’s a real play disguised by a ST formation. Special Teams are personnel in for KICKING PLAYS. A fake FG is not a kicking play.

 Everyone read that last part lol

2 hours ago, smeeze said:

 

I don’t play yahoo or espn public leagues, and just because those are their “standard” settings, doesn’t mean they make sense. Those type of leagues cater to the lowest common denominator. 

 

Sorry to year your struggling to understand, but you're in the minority.  I would say 90%+ of the people on these boards play on either Yahoo or ESPN, maybe go find a forum that fits your league settings since 90%+ of the posts here aren't  going to make sense to you.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the personnel on the field can never be a determining factor for score settings. Those that think differently ask yourself this: How would you decide who gets the points if the personnel consisted of mostly the special teams unit with the exception of a few players? In other words, how do you determine it’s the special team unit vs the offense if the kicker is on the field along with Big Ben or it’s a mix of special team players and offense starters? You can’t. That’s why it can only be determined by the action of the play where if the ball is kicked then the players become special teams. Not before it is kicked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.