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kmoore1521

Kyler Murray OF OAK

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He's not all that much shorter than Wilson or Brees. NFL game has changed a lot and even if there are still pockets of GMs/coaches who want tall statues that stay in the pocket, there are plenty of coaches that can work around the height 'limitations'...He has an NFL arm for sure. The huge thing in his favor is the very poor draft class of QBs...He will easily be a 1st Rd pick as long as he gives a team full assurances his future lies in football.

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34 minutes ago, ST. STEVEN said:

He's not all that much shorter than Wilson or Brees. NFL game has changed a lot and even if there are still pockets of GMs/coaches who want tall statues that stay in the pocket, there are plenty of coaches that can work around the height 'limitations'...He has an NFL arm for sure. The huge thing in his favor is the very poor draft class of QBs...He will easily be a 1st Rd pick as long as he gives a team full assurances his future lies in football.

He's 2 inches shorter than Wilson and 3 shorter than Brees.  Wilson dropped to the 3rd round because of his height.

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5 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

He's 2 inches shorter than Wilson and 3 shorter than Brees.  Wilson dropped to the 3rd round because of his height.

 

This is already known, what he said is "NFL game has changed a lot" since Wilson was drafted, implying maybe the height wont be as much a factor as to when Wilson was coming out back in the day

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16 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

He's 2 inches shorter than Wilson and 3 shorter than Brees.  Wilson dropped to the 3rd round because of his height.

 

Wilson dropped to the 3rd because of his height, and I have a feeling there's 31 other teams in the NFL that wish they didn't let him fall. In the case of talent vs. intangibles, talent usually wins out. 

 

Watching Kyler, you can tell he's special. The arm talent is no doubt there. He's obviously freakishly athletic. He played in (and dominated in) the same system that produced a ROY candidate in Baker Mayfield. He's a smarter runner than a lot of young QBs who rely too much on their athleticism are, so the injury risk is a bit less. It's also the safest time to be a QB in the NFL with all of the protection rules. As far as the silly "seeing over the offensive line" concern goes, it clearly didn't hamper him in college. 

 

The QB draft class is weak. Haskins and Kyler are special, and there's no way they don't go in the first round, because after them there's no one left who could (or should- theoretically, any QB can go in the first if a team gets desperate enough). Haskins will likely (and probably should) go first, but I don't view Kyler as far behind. If Haskins and Murray are on the board for the Giants and Jaguars, I'd be shocked if either of them pass. 

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3 hours ago, adifazio27 said:

 

Wilson dropped to the 3rd because of his height, and I have a feeling there's 31 other teams in the NFL that wish they didn't let him fall. In the case of talent vs. intangibles, talent usually wins out. 

 

Watching Kyler, you can tell he's special. The arm talent is no doubt there. He's obviously freakishly athletic. He played in (and dominated in) the same system that produced a ROY candidate in Baker Mayfield. He's a smarter runner than a lot of young QBs who rely too much on their athleticism are, so the injury risk is a bit less. It's also the safest time to be a QB in the NFL with all of the protection rules. As far as the silly "seeing over the offensive line" concern goes, it clearly didn't hamper him in college. 

 

The QB draft class is weak. Haskins and Kyler are special, and there's no way they don't go in the first round, because after them there's no one left who could (or should- theoretically, any QB can go in the first if a team gets desperate enough). Haskins will likely (and probably should) go first, but I don't view Kyler as far behind. If Haskins and Murray are on the board for the Giants and Jaguars, I'd be shocked if either of them pass. 

The draft advisory board gave Murray a 3rd round or later grade...

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Kyler Murray is 5'9" and around 180 lbs.  Even Russell Wilson is 5'11" and 215 lbs.  Kyler can't run around in the NFL where everyone is just as fast as him if not more so.  NFL teams already have him down as a problem maker for backing out of an agreement with the A's.  How will they believe anything he says?  He told the A's if they gave him the 5m bonus he would play baseball.  He gets it, signs the agreement, and now is attempting to back out saying he wants 15m now.  Ya, that'll play really well in football.  Every GM out there is wondering if it's worth it to draft him knowing he already has the makings of a major holdout a la Le'veon Bell.  No GM wants players who hold franchises hostage as a 1st round pick.  

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1 hour ago, daynlokki said:

The draft advisory board gave Murray a 3rd round or later grade...

 

Sure, the draft advisory board, but they're not working for a team. There's no way a QB needy team is going to sit around on his talent and wait until the third round because of a size concern that are usually overblown anyway. 

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10 minutes ago, adifazio27 said:

 

Sure, the draft advisory board, but they're not working for a team. There's no way a QB needy team is going to sit around on his talent and wait until the third round because of a size concern that are usually overblown anyway. 

Same was said about Wilson in the 2012 draft.  He had talent, but teams backed away because of size.  Many teams STILL dropped Mayfield over his size too, despite his numbers.  The fact that Murray is a full 2 inches and 35 lbs lighter than ANY other NFL QB is going to work against him.  You think he would be good on a bad team?  Currently, he's projected in the 1st to Miami, who has a line so bad their QB is constantly injured despite weighing in about 70 lbs heavier than Mayfield.  Ya, he may not take as many sacks as Tannehill would in that offense, but he's going to get beat up.  Bad teams usually don't have good offensive lines.  As an undersized QB with no offensive line, he could easily get constantly injured at his size.  He's undersized for a HB, let alone a QB.  He will probably be the smallest guy on the field most games while taking the most hits.

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A 5'9" QB isn't an overblown concern. Hard to get the ball out on a line when all of your lineman are about a half foot taller than you are.  Everything will have to have loft to it, meaning it will take longer to get to the WR, meaning it will be easier to pick off for the defensive backs.  Having elite numbers offensively in the Big 12 isn't much of an accomplishment overall.  Honestly, I think this entire thing is just to make more money with baseball.  He knows he's grossly undersized.  That alone already took him off several teams draft boards, even with a ton of arm talent.

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Fun fact, Mahomes is the FIRST Big 12 QB to win a playoff game.  Before they were the Big 12, they had a few in the Big 8, but never drafted from the Big 12.  Another fun fact, no Big 12 QB has ever won a college playoff game either, they are currently 0-3.

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2 hours ago, daynlokki said:

A 5'9" QB isn't an overblown concern. Hard to get the ball out on a line when all of your lineman are about a half foot taller than you are.  Everything will have to have loft to it, meaning it will take longer to get to the WR, meaning it will be easier to pick off for the defensive backs.  Having elite numbers offensively in the Big 12 isn't much of an accomplishment overall.  Honestly, I think this entire thing is just to make more money with baseball.  He knows he's grossly undersized.  That alone already took him off several teams draft boards, even with a ton of arm talent.

He will get drilled if he goes to the NFL, not a good choice for Murray

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Just now, cdd10 said:

He will get drilled if he goes to the NFL, not a good choice for Murray

I fully agree.  He won't make it through half a season on a bottom-tier roster.  He's only using the NFL as leverage over the A's to give him more money.  He knows he won't make big money off a small market team known for penny-pinching.

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I'm personally hoping he gets drafted in the 3rd round or later and the A's still just jettison him to the NFL while taking back the signing bonus he no longer has the money to pay back.  Holding the NFL over the A's heads after already agreeing to forgo the NFL in the original signing shows a lack of character.

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5 hours ago, daynlokki said:

I'm personally hoping he gets drafted in the 3rd round or later and the A's still just jettison him to the NFL while taking back the signing bonus he no longer has the money to pay back.  Holding the NFL over the A's heads after already agreeing to forgo the NFL in the original signing shows a lack of character.

 

Not really it's a business it goes both ways

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28 minutes ago, LivingOnTheEdge said:

 

Not really it's a business it goes both ways

How often do you hear of a player screwing an MLB team out of a top 10 pick?  I've never heard of someone signing a contract for the MLB then just decide he doesn't want to abide by it.  He straight up lied to the A's when they signed him saying he would only play baseball.  It's a cash grab and nothing more.  

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1 hour ago, daynlokki said:

How often do you hear of a player screwing an MLB team out of a top 10 pick?  I've never heard of someone signing a contract for the MLB then just decide he doesn't want to abide by it.  He straight up lied to the A's when they signed him saying he would only play baseball.  It's a cash grab and nothing more.  

 

He is building his own hype ... Everyone will make money off him, he knows it and want to max it out for himself ... Nobody is losing anything here in the end

Edited by LivingOnTheEdge

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He forfeits his signing bonus by declaring for the NFL Draft. He was coming off of a season where he was Baker Mayfield's backup when he was drafted by Oakland. I think he thought at the time when he was signed and drafted #9 overall, his future was in baseball. I don't think he expected to win the Heisman award, and Oakland knew they risked losing him if his football career took off with a starting job at Oklahoma.  At the end of the day he should be allowed to go wherever his heart desires, and I think it's unfortunate that Oakland doesn't get the 10th pick in the 2019 draft.

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9 hours ago, LivingOnTheEdge said:

 

He is building his own hype ... Everyone will make money off him, he knows it and want to max it out for himself ... Nobody is losing anything here in the end

Nobody will lose anything?  A's might lose a top 10 pick, he signed so they don't get a pick in next years draft for him.  That's HUGE for that franchise.

 

9 hours ago, mrmariner1 said:

He forfeits his signing bonus by declaring for the NFL Draft. He was coming off of a season where he was Baker Mayfield's backup when he was drafted by Oakland. I think he thought at the time when he was signed and drafted #9 overall, his future was in baseball. I don't think he expected to win the Heisman award, and Oakland knew they risked losing him if his football career took off with a starting job at Oklahoma.  At the end of the day he should be allowed to go wherever his heart desires, and I think it's unfortunate that Oakland doesn't get the 10th pick in the 2019 draft.

If you sign a contract, you should stick with the contract.  He didn't have to sign if he didn't want to.  Nobody forced him.

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11 hours ago, LivingOnTheEdge said:

 

Not really it's a business it goes both ways

Absolutely...HE has the right to do whatever he deems best for his future-

 

8 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

Nobody will lose anything?  A's might lose a top 10 pick, he signed so they don't get a pick in next years draft for him.  That's HUGE for that franchise.

 

If you sign a contract, you should stick with the contract.  He didn't have to sign if he didn't want to.  Nobody forced him.

Oh well, the A's very much understood this at the time and allowed him to play ball at OU.

He didn't sign some blood oath here, if he wants to play football instead of baseball that's his prerogative! It's not like he's stealing $ from the A's here, he will forfeit whatever bonus money he was to be owed--and it wasn't ALL paid upfront anyway. Why anyone begrudges players from maximizing their $ when they can is seriously beyond me??

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Surprised to see so little commentary on his hand size as a potential concern for his football future. Wilson is 5'11", but has hands the size of a guy 4-6" taller. Its certainly not predictive of success or failure, but hand size + height will matter some in player evaluation and slotting.

 

Now, for baseball, his skills aren't exactly perfect either. The K-rate is quite high for a guy who probably doesn't have enough power to compensate.

 

Murray's decision is a complicated one. Guaranteed money in the 1st round crushes baseball, but after about the mid-2nd begins to fall considerably.

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1 hour ago, ST. STEVEN said:

Absolutely...HE has the right to do whatever he deems best for his future-

 

Oh well, the A's very much understood this at the time and allowed him to play ball at OU.

He didn't sign some blood oath here, if he wants to play football instead of baseball that's his prerogative! It's not like he's stealing $ from the A's here, he will forfeit whatever bonus money he was to be owed--and it wasn't ALL paid upfront anyway. Why anyone begrudges players from maximizing their $ when they can is seriously beyond me??

 

The funny part about this is most people agree/complain that baseball players get paid peanuts early. So now a player sees that and tries to do what's best for them, and there's complaints anyway. 

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1 hour ago, oswald737 said:

Surprised to see so little commentary on his hand size as a potential concern for his football future. Wilson is 5'11", but has hands the size of a guy 4-6" taller. Its certainly not predictive of success or failure, but hand size + height will matter some in player evaluation and slotting.

 

Now, for baseball, his skills aren't exactly perfect either. The K-rate is quite high for a guy who probably doesn't have enough power to compensate.

 

Murray's decision is a complicated one. Guaranteed money in the 1st round crushes baseball, but after about the mid-2nd begins to fall considerably.

 

I feel like he's not an all-star/pro-bowl guy whichever way he chooses. He should get as much money as he can, if it's close, maybe stay baseball because you're less likely to have scrambled egg brains. 

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2 hours ago, ST. STEVEN said:

Absolutely...HE has the right to do whatever he deems best for his future-

 

Oh well, the A's very much understood this at the time and allowed him to play ball at OU.

He didn't sign some blood oath here, if he wants to play football instead of baseball that's his prerogative! It's not like he's stealing $ from the A's here, he will forfeit whatever bonus money he was to be owed--and it wasn't ALL paid upfront anyway. Why anyone begrudges players from maximizing their $ when they can is seriously beyond me??

No he signed a CONTRACT stating he would play baseball and only baseball.  That they are allowing him OUT of that contract shows how great of an organization the A's are.  They could actually file a grievance against him and get him taken out of the draft if they really wanted to.  His contract directly stipulates he will ONLY play baseball.

 

21 minutes ago, adifazio27 said:

 

The funny part about this is most people agree/complain that baseball players get paid peanuts early. So now a player sees that and tries to do what's best for them, and there's complaints anyway. 

He would make about the same money over 4 years instead of one bonus payment from football if he's picked about pick 53.  That doesn't add in his salaries in the minors or potentially the majors by that point.  All this is, is a money grab.  He told the A's he wants 15m to not play football.  They told him to f--- off.

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Next up he gets drafted by the Dolphins, signs a contract, then wants out of the contract so he can pick what team he plays for.  I mean, it's basically the same thing.

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7 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

They could actually file a grievance against him and get him taken out of the draft if they really wanted to. 

 

 

Who would that grievance be filed with?

 

 

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