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Saquon Barkley 2019 Outlook

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56 minutes ago, warpster said:

best candidate for doing a gurley.

the giants are just a dumpster fire, manning is so bad he lost his place to geno-bloody-smith, and this was two years ago.

his line is terrible and he ***** his pants far too quickly.

two pass rushers on eli, the secondary secondary-ing and everyone else jumps on saquon (or tries at least)

 

so yea', draft him 1st overall now i've said all that!

 

What does 'doing a Gurley' mean?

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27 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

What does 'doing a Gurley' mean?

 

****e second season

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1 hour ago, warpster said:

best candidate for doing a gurley.

the giants are just a dumpster fire, manning is so bad he lost his place to geno-bloody-smith, and this was two years ago.

his line is terrible and he ***** his pants far too quickly.

two pass rushers on eli, the secondary secondary-ing and everyone else jumps on saquon (or tries at least)

 

so yea', draft him 1st overall now i've said all that!

They were already a dumpster fire...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, warpster said:

best candidate for doing a gurley.

the giants are just a dumpster fire, manning is so bad he lost his place to geno-bloody-smith, and this was two years ago.

his line is terrible and he ***** his pants far too quickly.

two pass rushers on eli, the secondary secondary-ing and everyone else jumps on saquon (or tries at least)

 

so yea', draft him 1st overall now i've said all that!

 

 

Yes.  That was two years ago.  Last year he had the highest completion percentage of his career.  That’s something!

 

The offensive line will be far better next year with the addition of Zeitler and the 17th overall pick.  

 

I dont know what language that is. 🤪

Edited by poofinger

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37 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

They were already a dumpster fire...

i think they got worse, saquon is not a novelty anymore, and they have no other playmakers.

 

37 minutes ago, poofinger said:

Yes.  That was two years ago.  Last year he had the highest completion percentage of his career.  That’s something! 

sure, means he can't throw it long and resorts to easy dump-offs!

i'm not say barkley will have a poor season, just that he has a higher chance of being pants than other likely first overall picks. but don't try to tell me eli is a starting QB now! XD

 

the offensive line getting better is not just a matter of adding players, by the way.

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Looks like we found the irrational Saquan hater early in the thread. Good luck sir.

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i don't hate saquon, i hate every single ******** giant! XD

 

every season i forget that on here, if you raise some doubts and back them with some form of reasoning (whether that's good or bad reasoning is another matter...), you are a hater 😂

 

 

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3 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

What does 'doing a Gurley' mean?

Image result for chris hansen meme

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, warpster said:

i think they got worse, saquon is not a novelty anymore, and they have no other playmakers.

 

sure, means he can't throw it long and resorts to easy dump-offs!

i'm not say barkley will have a poor season, just that he has a higher chance of being pants than other likely first overall picks. but don't try to tell me eli is a starting QB now! XD

 

the offensive line getting better is not just a matter of adding players, by the way.

 

Good point on the dump offs.  

 

But the offensive line isn’t just “adding players”

 

Per pff “The same can’t be said about the difference between whatever the Giants were planning on throwing out at right guard compared to Zeitler. Patrick Omameh and Jamon Brown combined to allow 39 pressures in only 14 games last year. Zeitler, on the other hand, allowed all of 11 pressures all season long, and he owned the highest pass-blocking grade of any offensive lineman in the NFL.”

 

not saying the “hog molly” they take at 17 will be a stud.  But hopefully he’s better than Ereck Flowergirl

Zeitler alone is a huge upgrade on the OL.  

Edited by poofinger
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14 hours ago, poofinger said:

not saying the “hog molly” they take at 17 will be a stud.  But hopefully he’s better than Ereck Flowergirl

Zeitler alone is a huge upgrade on the OL.  

 

going by recent history they'll probably pick a WR...

 

the OL is a unit, a good player coming in means you have more chances to improve it than not, but it is not a guarantee.

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8 hours ago, warpster said:

 

going by recent history they'll probably pick a WR...

 

the OL is a unit, a good player coming in means you have more chances to improve it than not, but it is not a guarantee.

 

Ha. True.  Hopefully he’s as good as OBJ

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9 hours ago, warpster said:

 

going by recent history they'll probably pick a WR...

 

the OL is a unit, a good player coming in means you have more chances to improve it than not, but it is not a guarantee.

Zeitler was pretty terrible as a run-blocker last year - hopefully that doesn’t impact Saquon too much.

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I know it's a dumb cliche but am I the only one worried about some regression from saquon? I dont wanna sound like a hater cuss I believe saquon is the best RB in the league..  period. But it seems like every year after a break out season theres always some drop off one way or the other. Zeke and hunt got suspended. Gurely had a bad 2nd year. Bell got suspended and tore his knee up. David johnson got hurt. Alfred Morris, Doug martin, and Jordan howard got worse every year. Jay ajayi wasnt the same after his break out. Fournette was a nightmare. Countless others. 

Im not saying that just cuss saquon did good his rookie year he must do bad this year. There are exceptions like alvin Kamara, adrian peterson,  CMC, and of course LT. But I guess I'm trying to say is that following a double digit TD season with 2000 yards and 80 catches is hard To follow up. Specially with a qb who refuses to throw it down field or stick in the pocket and take hits. Wouldnt the safer move be taking a proven commodity with one of the top draft picks. Guys like zeke Kamara and Gurley are proven double digit td guys who can catch and run. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 2:38 PM, dashoe said:

 

 ypc is a misleading and abused metric. You can probably correlate his ypc increasing because he probably had more big runs which will distorts the ypc

You are the only one on the planet that dings rbs for having long runs

😝

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, psygolf said:

You are the only one on the planet that dings rbs for having long runs

😝

i'm the only one that dings  rotoworld posters from the knute Rockne era who claim ypc as some holy metric when comparing one rb vs another 👵

Edited by dashoe

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11 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

I know it's a dumb cliche but am I the only one worried about some regression from saquon? I dont wanna sound like a hater cuss I believe saquon is the best RB in the league..  period. But it seems like every year after a break out season theres always some drop off one way or the other. Zeke and hunt got suspended. Gurely had a bad 2nd year. Bell got suspended and tore his knee up. David johnson got hurt. Alfred Morris, Doug martin, and Jordan howard got worse every year. Jay ajayi wasnt the same after his break out. Fournette was a nightmare. Countless others. 

Im not saying that just cuss saquon did good his rookie year he must do bad this year. There are exceptions like alvin Kamara, adrian peterson,  CMC, and of course LT. But I guess I'm trying to say is that following a double digit TD season with 2000 yards and 80 catches is hard To follow up. Specially with a qb who refuses to throw it down field or stick in the pocket and take hits. Wouldnt the safer move be taking a proven commodity with one of the top draft picks. Guys like zeke Kamara and Gurley are proven double digit td guys who can catch and run. 

 

Figure out your outlook on the Giants and assume defenses will adapt to his talent. . . and you just may find the answers you seek. 

I'm a firm believer that rb's perform as well as the the system designed for them so for barkley it was evident Shumur designed a run heavy short yardage passing game built around the rb.  this is no air raid offense but this is also a team that talent wise  is worse than it was last season and they have no downfield threat which now allows the defense to sell out on stopping barkley. . .👀

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, dashoe said:

i'm the only one that dings  rotoworld posters from the knute Rockne era who claim ypc as some holy metric when comparing one rb vs another 👵

It is extremely rare for anyone here to use ypc as the definitive weigh scale for rbs...unless they are comparing rbs on the same team.  And many agree that a ypc over 4.5 is very good number for a rb if he has received a starter's load, nothing to argue about that.   

Innovative stats that fly around the planet to get you to the same corner store that you could've walked to are fun to look at, but have zero use in ff projection.

Edited by psygolf
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Missed tackles forced tends to be a better stat for determining an RBs talent level. Ypc has jordan howard being a decent fantasy player but he killed you in fantasy for most games of his career. Unless someone has an unreal ypc over many many touches it's kind of a useless fantasy stat imo. That being said saquon averaged 5 ypc on well over 200 carries but also led the league in broken tackles by a very wide margin. 

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4 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

Missed tackles forced tends to be a better stat for determining an RBs talent level. Ypc has jordan howard being a decent fantasy player but he killed you in fantasy for most games of his career. Unless someone has an unreal ypc over many many touches it's kind of a useless fantasy stat imo. That being said saquon averaged 5 ypc on well over 200 carries but also led the league in broken tackles by a very wide margin. 

 

MUSIC TO MY EARS!!! 🎶 👏

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

Missed tackles forced tends to be a better stat for determining an RBs talent level. Ypc has jordan howard being a decent fantasy player but he killed you in fantasy for most games of his career.

It’s only only a description of “style”...then you need to acknowledge the confounding variables.

You lost the crowd when you submitted Howard  to back your statement up, a rb whose ypc has declined every year since his rookie year - did he get less talented in 3 yrs?

Edited by psygolf

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Posted (edited)

Pro Football Focus article, before Conner hurts his ankle...

“His 46 combined missed tackles forced are the most in the NFL, behind 44 for Saquon Barkley of the New York Giants, who has 10 more total touches. The Kansas City Chiefs’ Kareem Hunt also has 41 missed tackles forced, on five fewer touches than Conner. Nobody else has hit 40 yet, and in fact few have even reached 30. Alvin Kamara, in spite of having 139 touches, has only forced 22 missed tackles.

Conner leads the league with an Elusive Rating of 88.8, which is calculated by dividing the number of missed tackles by the total number of touches multiplied by the player’s yards after contact per attempt, times 100. It sounds convoluted, but it is an attempt to quantify a player’s ability to produce offense irrespective of blocking.”

 

So...was Conner the most talented rb in the league up until that point??  

Obviously, not.

Edited by psygolf

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Question tangentially related to the discussion. 

Do people actually use PFF stats when researching/drafting? Or just to prove points on here? I know I don't look at it at all aside from when I'm backed into a corner and need to find some obscure stat to support my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

Question tangentially related to the discussion. 

Do people actually use PFF stats when researching/drafting? Or just to prove points on here? I know I don't look at it at all aside from when I'm backed into a corner and need to find some obscure stat to support my opinion.

Luckily, one can filter their stats and go back year by year...then find that it offers very little as a source for predicting future production/ranking, imho.   

But one should just evaluate that for themselves, there's plenty of time for it.

Edited by psygolf
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According to football outsiders saquon barkely had a total of 94 broken tackles rushing and receiving. The next closest was 63 by CMC. James connor despite missing essentially 4 games had 56 broken tackles and rushed for 970 yards and 490 yards receiving. And had 13 total touch downs. Ya he may have been the best rb in the league for fantasy or atleast top 5. I said broken tackles tends to be a better teller of good talent not the end all be all and whoever has the most is the greatest that there ever is. Try not to see everything in black and white man it might make the world a better place.

 

Jordan Howard's ypc going down is a perfect example. He didnt get worse in 3 years hes never been that good. This year he broke a whopping 26 tackles on 270 touches. That's 2 behind frank gore and his 160 touches. In years past he would have 2 or 3 bad games of 50 yards then explode for one good game. These games inflated his ypc. You look at his season total and say "ok hes good, an rb1 even" but the truth is he killed you in more games than not. Ypc can be inflated by a big run or a lucky play but broken tackles takes more consistency.

Now ya can go thru the lists of both top ypc and most broken tackles and find exceptions to the rule but imo its still alot more accurate than ypc. If you look at the leagues best ypc guys ya get the following 

1 aaron jones

2 phill lindsay

3 kerryon johnson

4 matt brieda

5 nick chubb

6 gus edwards

Any first round draft picks for yall? Maybe chubb? 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

According to football outsiders saquon barkely had a total of 94 broken tackles rushing and receiving. The next closest was 63 by CMC. James connor despite missing essentially 4 games had 56 broken tackles and rushed for 970 yards and 490 yards receiving. And had 13 total touch downs. Ya he may have been the best rb in the league for fantasy or atleast top 5. I said broken tackles tends to be a better teller of good talent not the end all be all and whoever has the most is the greatest that there ever is. Try not to see everything in black and white man it might make the world a better place.

 

Jordan Howard's ypc going down is a perfect example. He didnt get worse in 3 years hes never been that good. This year he broke a whopping 26 tackles on 270 touches. That's 2 behind frank gore and his 160 touches. In years past he would have 2 or 3 bad games of 50 yards then explode for one good game. These games inflated his ypc. You look at his season total and say "ok hes good, an rb1 even" but the truth is he killed you in more games than not. Ypc can be inflated by a big run or a lucky play but broken tackles takes more consistency.

Now ya can go thru the lists of both top ypc and most broken tackles and find exceptions to the rule but imo its still alot more accurate than ypc. If you look at the leagues best ypc guys ya get the following 

1 aaron jones

2 phill lindsay

3 kerryon johnson

4 matt brieda

5 nick chubb

6 gus edwards

Any first round draft picks for yall? Maybe chubb? 

 

 

You missed the “full-load” qualifier for your ypc devaluation  

 

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