Fantasy Gooroo

Le'Veon Bell 2019 Outlook

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25 minutes ago, devaster said:

One would think one of the best and respected organizations is not petty... but the reporting so far suggests that.

 

A non playoff season has to mean a housecleaning, right?   They're gonna be the best Deadspin Why Your Team Sucks article in August

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1 hour ago, BrianM said:

I don't get the end game here.......no compensation if Bell signs an offer and Pittsburgh doesn't match it.........and why the hell would they match it?   Match, then trade?   Ludicrous.   I'd laugh forever if they match a high dollar offer then get stuck with Bell.   What's their ceiling here, a third round pick?   Not worth the risk, or the headache.  

They had a chance to just make a clean break here, and they just couldn't help themselves. Last season they were a train wreck, and had to deal with this albatross the whole time.    Now they just doubled down, like a bitter divorcee filing new motions to drag out the process just to cost his ex wife that much more money. 

I think the point is that Pittsburgh WILL match.  That's their only way to retain Bell's rights.  Perhaps they believe Bell will not get any lucrative multi-year offers, making matching easier.  If so, I tend to agree.

Another possibility is that Bell gets miffed and refuses to sign the transition tag.  Win for the Steelers if the goal is to keep him away from their AFC rivals.  That's actually their best outcome: for a second year in a row, it would prevent Bell from signing with a team the Steelers do not want him to sign with, and, for the second year in a row, they would not have to pay him a cent.

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33 minutes ago, devaster said:

One would think one of the best and respected organizations is not petty... but the reporting so far suggests that.

I don't see the Steeler Front Office actions as petty.  The Steelers drafted Bell and helped to turn him into a highly productive player; now, they may decide to act within their contractual rights under the CBA to retain team control over the player, maximize their compensation, and control his destination if he does decide to continue his NFL career.

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On 1/6/2019 at 10:48 AM, dashoe said:

 

I think Bell is less about the money than the consensus thinks. The end witht he Steelers I think really came down to respect/pride at the way he felt management treated him.  The last franchise tag which prevented him from negotiating was probably the last straw.  I think he is looking for the most money in the right situation for the next part of his career vs the highest paycheck. . assuming the number offered is a number he cant refuse. Signaling he wants to go to Indy says he wants to go to a playoff bound team with a great QB which means he knows that team won't blow their cap on him to play there. .

This is the NFL.  Players rarely get to choose which teams they will play for.  Kirk Cousins is one of the few who managed it in the last 20 years.  Elway and Eli Manning did it by playing hardball before the draft, but that was under a previous CBA and both players were already from independently wealthy families.  And, like Kyler Murray and Bo Jackson, Elway had baseball to fall back on.

When a player who is still under a team's control starts talking about which other teams they wish to play for, that is a strong signal that said player is living in dreamland.

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If and when Bell signs the transition tag, which comes first- Pittsburgh’s obligation to match another teams offer to Bell, or Pittsburgh’s ability to extend/accept a trade offer to/from another team?

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1 minute ago, Lamont Sanford said:

If and when Bell signs the transition tag, which comes first- Pittsburgh’s obligation to match another teams offer to Bell, or Pittsburgh’s ability to extend/accept a trade offer to/from another team?

A player who has signed his transition tag is under contract and obligated to play for his original team, but he may also negotiate long term deals with other teams.  If the tagged player signs an offer sheet from a second team, the original team can match the offer.  

If the Steelers match, they have Bell under contract.  Then they can trade him, but not to the team that signed Bell to the matched offer sheet, unless the player consents.

Clear as mud?  :D

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5 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

If and when Bell signs the transition tag, which comes first- Pittsburgh’s obligation to match another teams offer to Bell, or Pittsburgh’s ability to extend/accept a trade offer to/from another team?

 

Pittsburgh wouldn’t have any obligation to match an offer made to Bell were he to sign.

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If Pittsburgh does not match, Bell signs with the new team and the Steelers get NO compensation.  So it seems the odds of them not matching are slim.

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Right - but it represents a gamble in that teams with plenty of cap space could make an offer so front-loaded that it would make little sense for Pittsburgh to match.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Pittsburgh wouldn’t have any obligation to match an offer made to Bell were he to sign.

Understood, I misspoke. I should’ve said match or decline to match another teams offer. (I thought it was implied)

Edited by Lamont Sanford
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You would think that a team that just had a season derailed partly because of off-field drama, would simply realize its time to let this go and get your compensatory draft pick (likely 3rd round).  This is like a divorcing couple that just won't move on. 

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2 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

If Pittsburgh does not match, Bell signs with the new team and the Steelers get NO compensation.  So it seems the odds of them not matching are slim.

 

But can’t Pittsburgh trade him immediately upon signing the tag? Thus, making the whole topic of matching/not matching another teams offer moot?

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Just now, Lamont Sanford said:

 

But can’t Pittsburgh trade him immediately upon signing the tag? Thus, making the whole topic of matching/not matching another teams offer moot?

 

Sure - he’s a member of the team at that point.  He could be traded at any time.

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Just now, BMcP said:

 

Sure - he’s a member of the team at that point.  He could be traded at any time.

Exactly. So, assuming Pittsburgh already has offers “on the table” for Bell worth more than a compensatory 3rd I don’t see any scenario in which Pittsburgh would facing the “match offer or else get nothing” scenario. As soon as he signs, they trade him to a predetermined team for X. 

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6 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

 

But can’t Pittsburgh trade him immediately upon signing the tag? Thus, making the whole topic of matching/not matching another teams offer moot?

Unlikely, because teams would probably prefer to have more of a guarantee that they will be able to keep the player if they give up compensation for him.  Also, the CBA may prevent that, I am not sure.  Trades can't be official until the start of the league year, March 17.

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12 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Right - but it represents a gamble in that teams with plenty of cap space could make an offer so front-loaded that it would make little sense for Pittsburgh to match.

I doubt this will happen, as I have written many times in this forum.  There may not be one single NFL team dumb enough to back up a big truck full of money for Bell. He is a diva RB who has been out of football for a huge number of months and is an established pain in the side.

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4 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Exactly. So, assuming Pittsburgh already has offers “on the table” for Bell worth more than a compensatory 3rd I don’t see any scenario in which Pittsburgh would facing the “match offer or else get nothing” scenario. As soon as he signs, they trade him to a predetermined team for X. 

 

It’s important to note that the “tag and trade” approach is problematic in that the CBA requires the tagging franchise to have a “good faith” intention of keeping the player for that season.  In the scenario you described, Bell would have a legitimate grievance under Art. 4, Sec. 8.

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4 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I doubt this will happen, as I have written many times in this forum.  There may not be one single NFL team dumb enough to back up a big truck full of money for Bell. He is a diva RB who has been out of football for a huge number of months and is an established pain in the side.

 

If Pittsburgh follows through with this, they obviously share your view.  Still, it’s a gamble - there are plenty of good teams out there with a ton of space to work with (e.g., Colts, Texans).

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7 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

It’s important to note that the “tag and trade” approach is problematic in that the CBA requires the tagging franchise to have a “good faith” intention of keeping the player for that season.  In the scenario you described, Bell would have a legitimate grievance under Art. 4, Sec. 8.

And how would Bell/CBA disprove Pittsburgh’s theoretical claim that they indeed did intend  to keep Bell, but team X’s trade offer was simply too good to pass up. It then became clear that trading Bell was in the franchises beat interest. This could theoretically and legitimately occur within minutes of Bell signing the tag.

 

Is there a certain amount of time Bell is required to remain with the team to fulfill the “good faith” stipulation?

 

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8 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

And how would Bell/CBA disprove Pittsburgh’s theoretical claim that they indeed did intend  to keep Bell, but team X’s trade offer was simply too good to pass up. It then became clear that trading Bell was in the franchises beat interest. This could theoretically and legitimately occur within minutes of Bell signing the tag.

 

Is there a certain amount of time Bell is required to remain with the team to fulfill the “good faith” stipulation?

 

 

Of course not - it would be subject to the interpretation of an arbiter.  Theoretically, yes, it’s possible that the Steelers received an offer simply too good to pass up mere minutes after formally applying the tag.  But if the Steelers had several in-hand offers they were mulling, and decided to take one of them the same day they tagged Bell, it would probably not pass muster under the CBA.  Even in the hypothetical in which they decided to trade Bell before the match deadline, they would assuredly get out in front of it with the media and announce they had every intention of seeing Bell suit up as a Steeler in 2019 before being blown away by a subsequent trade offer.

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2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't see the Steeler Front Office actions as petty.  The Steelers drafted Bell and helped to turn him into a highly productive player; now, they may decide to act within their contractual rights under the CBA to retain team control over the player, maximize their compensation, and control his destination if he does decide to continue his NFL career.

How do you not see it as petty? The Steelers have no intention on keeping Bell or arranging a desirable trade for Bell. They don't have Bell's best interest in mind, like the Eagles would if they franchised and traded Foles. I don't see any team giving up better compensation than what the Steelers would already get a season down the line with a compensatory pick. This is petty and spiteful.

I'm going to be really surprised if they do transition tag him. They would need to have a deal in place before tagging him, otherwise it would be a colossal mistake.

 

Edited by devaster

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3 hours ago, devaster said:

One would think one of the best and respected organizations is not petty... but the reporting so far suggests that.

 

IMO, the Steelers organization has not been one of the best for a few years now with Tomlin leading the way. They've been a circus for a number of years now, but now it's just getting worse and worse and more commonly known about.

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Just now, ThreadKiller said:

 

IMO, the Steelers organization has not been one of the best for a few years now with Tomlin leading the way. They've been a circus for a number of years now, but now it's just getting worse and worse and more commonly known about.

I agree that they are no longer one of the best and are a circus lately. But that is the perception and history of the organization. They have been trash for a few years now.

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2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I think the point is that Pittsburgh WILL match.  That's their only way to retain Bell's rights.  Perhaps they believe Bell will not get any lucrative multi-year offers, making matching easier.  If so, I tend to agree.

Another possibility is that Bell gets miffed and refuses to sign the transition tag.  Win for the Steelers if the goal is to keep him away from their AFC rivals.  That's actually their best outcome: for a second year in a row, it would prevent Bell from signing with a team the Steelers do not want him to sign with, and, for the second year in a row, they would not have to pay him a cent.

 

That sounds extremely childish and petty.

I agree with you though that they are possibilities though...Just contributes to how pathetic of an organization they are these days.

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4 minutes ago, devaster said:

How do you not see it as petty? The Steelers have no intention on keeping Bell or arranging a desirable trade for Bell. They don't have Bell's best interest in mind, like the Eagles would if they franchised and traded Foles. I don't see any team giving up better compensation than what the Steelers would already get a season down the line with a compensatory pick. This is petty and spiteful.

I'm going to be really surprised if they do transition tag him. They would need to have a deal in place before tagging him, otherwise it would be a colossal mistake.

 

 

Having a deal in place beforehand would be a clear-cut violation of the CBA.

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