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Antonio Brown 2019 Outlook

tonycpsu

Recent developments in AB's employment status, along with the continued inability of some users to keep their comments within the site guidelines, have forced us to lock this thread yet again.  If circumstances warrant, we will reopen.

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Looks like another cakewalk matchup for Week 3. Seeing how Odell torched the Jets, it is looking like prime feeding for "AB" (real name below) and Gordon.giphy.gif

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1 minute ago, ponchsox said:

The league had video tape of Zeke pulling some chicks top up. They had proof.

For accuracy, Shirtgate was actually not what he was suspended over. It was another incident. They let the shirt incident go.

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1 minute ago, FitzMagic said:

For accuracy, Shirtgate was actually not what he was suspended over. It was another incident. They let the shirt incident go.

Right. But it was another strike against Zeke’s reputation.

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9 minutes ago, iretirefromfantasy said:

No, AB declined to sign the settlement.

Thanks for clarifying. Couldn’t remember 

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Update of Antonio Browns playing status:

 

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  • The Washington Post reports it is "unclear" when the league will decide if Antonio Brown will be placed on the commissioner's exempt list.

    SOURCE: Washington Post
    Sep 17, 2019, 3:51 PM ET
     
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54 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

People keep forgetting what happened with Zeke. 

The NFL does not need charges pressed to suspend a player.  If they conduct an investigation and come to the conclusion that the player did wrong, they can suspend based on the player conduct policy.  Goodell is basically an all powerful dictator in this regard.  Zeke appealed multiple times and eventually gave up and served the NFL's suspension, despite never being charged with a crime.

This is what AB is facing.  If the NFL, through their own investigation, believes there was wrongdoing, they will suspend AB.

The difference is that Zeke actually had a police investigation. This is a girl that bypassed the police and went straight to the nfl/civil. Apples and oranges my friend

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14 minutes ago, iretirefromfantasy said:
  • The Washington Post reports it is "unclear" when the league will decide if Antonio Brown will be placed on the commissioner's exempt list.

    SOURCE: Washington Post
    Sep 17, 2019, 3:51 PM ET
     
  •  

 

Well do it or don't i got places to be.

Goodell make a decision.

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11 minutes ago, pdog109 said:

 

Well do it or don't i got places to be.

Goodell make a decision.

Brown will "probably" play in week 3.

The NFL will have to meet with Brown as well and get his side of the story. The NFL will obviously compare notes between both parties and try to draw a picture using whatever new evidence that was brought to the table. For a 10 hour long meet, you have to assume that there was additional evidence that was brought to the table to corroborate a story.

Brown may play this week. The Pats don't have a bye until the 2nd week of November which I doubt the NFL will wait that long. I would think they would want to get to the bottom of this quickly, especially since a 2nd person has made statements and especially if the 10 hour meet was eye opening.

Edited by nonstopfan

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37 minutes ago, BigBenTheSteelerMan said:

The difference is that Zeke actually had a police investigation. This is a girl that bypassed the police and went straight to the nfl/civil. Apples and oranges my friend

 

You say that as if the NFL has some sort of policy they follow in regards to what warrants a suspension and what doesn't.  Sure, you can say that comparison is apples to oranges, but that doesn't actually mean anything in terms of trying to guess how the NFL is going to proceed.

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4 minutes ago, Hero202 said:

 

You say that as if the NFL has some sort of policy they follow in regards to what warrants a suspension and what doesn't.  Sure, you can say that comparison is apples to oranges, but that doesn't actually mean anything in terms of trying to guess how the NFL is going to proceed.

Unless there's any strong evidence he wont be suspended. The nfl isnt going to suspend a player based on allegations from years ago. There wasn't even a police report. Wasn't Zeke investigated by multiple police departments?

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6 minutes ago, Hero202 said:

 

You say that as if the NFL has some sort of policy they follow in regards to what warrants a suspension and what doesn't.  Sure, you can say that comparison is apples to oranges, but that doesn't actually mean anything in terms of trying to guess how the NFL is going to proceed.

 

This. They suspended Terrelle Pryor 5 games for violating NCAA rules when he was already in the NFL. Whatever punishment is solely on the discretion of the commissioner's office. Legal basis might sway the scales but it's not a pre-requisite given the history of such punishments.

Edited by WaiverLooter

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People are confusing an NFL player conduct investigation with a civil or criminal court proceeding.

The biggest difference is that the burden of proof in an NFL investigation is nowhere near as high as it is in a civil or criminal court proceeding.  There's also no concept of "due process" or "innocent until proven guilty".  The NFL goes in, finds out what happened, and does whatever they want to do.

It is MUCH easier for AB to be suspended by the NFL than for him to be charged of a crime or lose his civil case.  All it takes is for the NFL to believe he did something wrong that led to this, and he's toast.  It's what happened to Zeke.  The NFL saw enough to believe that Zeke had acted badly and contributed to his situation, so they suspended him.  It didn't matter if he was actually guilty of a crime.

Trying to argue that AB is safe because of this legal principle or that legal argument is a waste.  This is a different animal.  The NFLPA gave Goodell almost limitless power to regulate any player conduct that is detrimental to the NFL brand, and that's exactly what he does.

Just like Gareon Conley and Tyreek Hill, AB is going to have to prove that he didn't do anything wrong at all, and was in no way responsible for the situation.

So....if you think AB has the horses to convince the NFL that he didn't do anything wrong, then you should value him as a WR1.  Otherwise, you need to add significant risk to his 2019 outlook.

Edited by Brownsfan74
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7 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

People are confusing an NFL player conduct investigation with a civil or criminal court proceeding.

The biggest difference is that the burden of proof in an NFL investigation is nowhere near as high as it is in a civil or criminal court proceeding.  There's also no concept of "due process" or "innocent until proven guilty".  The NFL goes in, finds out what happened, and does whatever they want to do.

It is MUCH easier for AB to be suspended by the NFL than for him to be charged of a crime or lose his civil case.  All it takes is for the NFL to believe he did something wrong that led to this, and he's toast.  It's what happened to Zeke.  The NFL saw enough to believe that Zeke had acted badly and contributed to his situation, so they suspended him.  It didn't matter if he was actually guilty of a crime.

Trying to argue that AB is safe because of this legal principle or that legal argument is a waste.  This is a different animal.  The NFLPA gave Goodell almost limitless power to regulate any player conduct that is detrimental to the NFL brand, and that's exactly what he does.

Just like Gareon Conley and Tyreek Hill, AB is going to have to prove that he didn't do anything wrong at all, and was in no way responsible for the situation.

So....if you think AB has the horses to convince the NFL that he didn't do anything wrong, then you should value him as a WR1.  Otherwise, you need to add significant risk to his 2019 outlook.

I think most people understand that, they are just trying to guess at what constitutes being worthy of suspension by the NFL.

It is not as simple as doing "something wrong". If that were the only criteria, the whole league would probably be suspended.

Obviously there must be some threshold that is crossed for the NFL to issue a suspension. Is it when they feel the league's image is being damaged significantly enough? 

The thinking some people had was that a lack of criminal charges and things of that nature, may deem the whole thing not worthy of suspension in the league's eyes. It's not that they feel the two processes are similar or have the same burdens of proof. 

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5 minutes ago, mbell317 said:

Obviously there must be some threshold that is crossed for the NFL to issue a suspension. Is it when they feel the league's image is being damaged significantly enough? 

 

This is the question that there is no answer to.  I haven't read the NFL player conduct policy, but it's clearly not spelled out there or someone would have cited it.  I think it's basically whatever Goodell thinks is appropriate, on whatever criteria is in his mind at the time.  This is why AB is definitely at risk here.

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9 minutes ago, mbell317 said:

I think most people understand that, they are just trying to guess at what constitutes being worthy of suspension by the NFL.

It is not as simple as doing "something wrong". If that were the only criteria, the whole league would probably be suspended.

Obviously there must be some threshold that is crossed for the NFL to issue a suspension. Is it when they feel the league's image is being damaged significantly enough? 

The thinking some people had was that a lack of criminal charges and things of that nature, may deem the whole thing not worthy of suspension in the league's eyes. It's not that they feel the two processes are similar or have the same burdens of proof. 

 

I would say in most situations

1) Criminal charges - If said player is caught with a criminal charge, it's almost but certain he will be on the exempt list

2) If no criminal charges, or even if police do drop the charges later, then it's a matter of league image at this point. This is the grey area and the image looks bad for the league. Hence why AB is flirting dangerously with the line here.

It's possible he can come away unscathed but I would definitely try to either trade for James White, or pick up Phillip Dorsett. Could also trade for Gordon or Edelman but they will come at a much steeper price (Only do this if your gut is telling you the suspension is going to be long, potentially season ending)

Edited by WaiverLooter

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I found some PDF regarding the NFL player conduct policy.  It says this regarding being put on the exempt list -

"An individual may be put on paid leave if formally charged with a violent crime or sexual assault, or if the NFL investigation finds sufficient credible evidence that it appears a violation of the policy has occurred. Paid leave will last until the completion of the NFL investigation or disposition of a criminal charge."

Very nebulous, but it's clear that a charge does not have to be filed for the player to be put on the exempt list.

If the NFL believes what Britney Taylor says and does not believe what AB says, this is likely "sufficient credible evidence" and he'll be suspended.

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8 minutes ago, FootballOutsider said:

In a post-Ray Rice NFL the league is just as likely to suspend someone because the optics are bad. 

Optics were bad for Tyreek and what did he get?

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Just now, Brownsfan74 said:

I found some PDF regarding the NFL player conduct policy.  It says this regarding being put on the exempt list -

"An individual may be put on paid leave if formally charged with a violent crime or sexual assault, or if the NFL investigation finds sufficient credible evidence that it appears a violation of the policy has occurred. Paid leave will last until the completion of the NFL investigation or disposition of a criminal charge."

Very nebulous, but it's clear that a charge does not have to be filed for the player to be put on the exempt list.

If the NFL believes what Britney Taylor says and does not believe what AB says, this is likely "sufficient credible evidence" and he'll be suspended.

Yup, I was just going to post this. Full link here if anyone's interested: https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2017/08/11/0ap3000000828506.pdf

That's been my question all along - - does the NFL consider a woman's testimony yo be "credible evidence"? I guess they are going to judge her against AB and decide if her testimony is credible enough or not?

I'm surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been mentioned more. Remember he got a 6 game suspension because of sexual assault allegations. There were never criminal charges. It was later reduced to 4 games. 

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12 minutes ago, Brownsfan74 said:

People are confusing an NFL player conduct investigation with a civil or criminal court proceeding.

Yes, they are.

Here is the NFL Personal Conduct Policy, which is the ONLY policy fantasy owners should be concerned with right now in regards to Antonio Brown playing this season. Forget Civil suits and criminal investigations.

 

1 minute ago, mbell317 said:

Yup, I was just going to post this. Full link here if anyone's interested: https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2017/08/11/0ap3000000828506.pdf

That's been my question all along - - does the NFL consider a woman's testimony yo be "credible evidence"? I guess they are going to judge her against AB and decide if her testimony is credible enough or not?

I'm surprised that Roethlisberger hasn't been mentioned more. Remember he got a 6 game suspension because of sexual assault allegations. There were never criminal charges. It was later reduced to 4 games. 

Thanks. That's exactly what I was going to post.

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1 minute ago, mbell317 said:

That's been my question all along - - does the NFL consider a woman's testimony yo be "credible evidence"? I guess they are going to judge her against AB and decide if her testimony is credible enough or not?

 

Testimony, in and of itself, is evidence.  The question is whether it is "credible", and that's what the NFL will determine.  There's no clear criteria for credible or not credible really.  It's a judgement call, which is why this situation is not cut and dried.

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Extremely long read, but if you want to really get an idea of how the NFL Investigators operate and how they execute the NFL Personal Conduct Policy investigation, I added a link to the timeline and leaked transcripts from the Zeke investigation. Yes, these are different cases, but it does provide a clear picture on what the NFL is looking at in the Brown case. Like for example, the accuser against Zeke sent a bunch of text messages to her friends and family documenting what had happened and the NFL Forensic team was able to corroborate those text messages even those events were not documented on police reports.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/29/16151642/ezekiel-elliott-timeline-domestic-violence-police-report-nfl-suspension-appeal

 

 

Edited by nonstopfan

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18 hours ago, Brownsfan74 said:

People keep forgetting what happened with Zeke. 

The NFL does not need charges pressed to suspend a player.  If they conduct an investigation and come to the conclusion that the player did wrong, they can suspend based on the player conduct policy.  Goodell is basically an all powerful dictator in this regard.  Zeke appealed multiple times and eventually gave up and served the NFL's suspension, despite never being charged with a crime.

This is what AB is facing.  If the NFL, through their own investigation, believes there was wrongdoing, they will suspend AB.

 

Great point...and I believe you are correct.  This possibility definitely exists.

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