DerrickHenrysCleats

Mark Ingram 2019 Outlook

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I want no part of any raven's player. 

Their entire gameplan revolves around running out the clock on low scoring games won in the trenches through rotating running plays.

Even IF Ingram was a work horse in this offense, they aren't going to score a lot.

A flex here and there, but I'd much rather go with Lindsay or Breida at this range.

 

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16 minutes ago, FooserX said:

I want no part of any raven's player. 

Their entire gameplan revolves around running out the clock on low scoring games won in the trenches through rotating running plays.

Even IF Ingram was a work horse in this offense, they aren't going to score a lot.

A flex here and there, but I'd much rather go with Lindsay or Breida at this range.

 

 

Breida over Ingram?

 

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.

 

I would take lindsay over Ingram but at least a solid argument could be made for that. Breida, not so much.

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Posted (edited)

Talk about recency bias. How quickly people forget Harbaugh’s tendencies in deploying a workhorse back which dates back to a fellow named Ray Rice. Even the year after Rice’s off the field issue which would eventually end his career, in 2015 Harbaugh rode a then 29 year old Justin Forsett to the tune of 1500 total yards and 8 TD’s. He tried to do the same in 2016 but Justin Forsett became, well, Justin Forsett. 

 

Someone made the comment Harbaugh loves to rotate his back and that he’s in “love” with his group. Harbaugh has run a RBBC over the last 2-3 years because quite frankly, they’ve all sucked. He even succeeded in making a castoff RB from Seattle in Alex Collins a semi-workhorse back a few years ago. How do you think he became a top 36ish draft pick last year?

 

If one wants to question Ingram’s ability and say he was a product of the system in New Orleans, or question Baltimore’s offense with Lamar at QB, that’s one thing, and to a certain extent, a fair debate. But to say I’m not drafting him b/c Harbaugh loves his stable of backs and loves to run a RBBC is nonsense and a disregard of Harbaugh’s past. In fact, if this pre-season is any indication, Ingram will more than likely be ridden to the ground and given all he can handle since he hasn’t received a single carry. Recency bias is a good thing in FF, certainly helps astute owners gain added value in drafts. 

Edited by Sonny_D
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At his current ADP Ingram is an absolute steal. The dude has an ADP pushing into the 40s which is hilarious.

- On a team that loves to run the ball

- A coach that loves to have a workhourse back and run the ball

- Clearly the best back on the team

- Above average pass catcher

- Great GL back

- Good defense

- Solid line

He should be going an entire round higher than he currently is. The only counter argument is that he was part of a system which is quite a weak argument against him. Watch the tape on him and it will show he isn't just part of a system. Ingram is quite a good back with fairly low mileage because of that system.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

At his current ADP Ingram is an absolute steal. The dude has an ADP pushing into the 40s which is hilarious.

- On a team that loves to run the ball

- A coach that loves to have a workhourse back and run the ball

- Clearly the best back on the team

- Above average pass catcher

- Great GL back

- Good defense

- Solid line

He should be going an entire round higher than he currently is. The only counter argument is that he was part of a system which is quite a weak argument against him. Watch the tape on him and it will show he isn't just part of a system. Ingram is quite a good back with fairly low mileage because of that system.

 

The counter arguments are:

Lamar will eat into his TDs

Lamar doesn't throw to RB all that often

There's a stable of RB that each Excel in certain scenarios and no gaurantee Ingram will be a bellcow

 

Edited by scheibler
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, scheibler said:

Lamar will eat into his TDs

Argument makes no sense. Passing QBs eat into TDs as well. If Mahomes throws a TD from the 2 he ate equally into the TD of his RB as Lamar running it from the 2. Lamar is actually less likely to eat into his TDs than a high volume passing QB as they will run a lot more. 

26 minutes ago, scheibler said:

Lamar doesn't throw to RB all that often

Not much to base this on. He threw under 150 yards 4/7 times and never had 15 pass attempts. He didn't throw to anyone often and Montgomery actually got some decent work in a few of the games. Now that he has some experience his attempts should go up a bit and the inexperience should lead to more work for RBs

26 minutes ago, scheibler said:

There's a stable of RB that each Excel in certain scenarios and no gaurantee Ingram will be a bellcow

You're right there's "no guarantee". However, none of their RBs are even remotely special in any scenario other than Ingram. They're all JAG that did well due to a run heavy system.

Edited by Gohawks
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36 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Argument makes no sense. Passing QBs eat into TDs as well. If Mahomes throws a TD from the 2 he ate equally into the TD of his RB as Lamar running it from the 2. Lamar is actually less likely to eat into his TDs than a high volume passing QB as they will run a lot more. 

Not much to base this on. He threw under 150 yards 4/7 times and never had 15 pass attempts. He didn't throw to anyone often and Montgomery actually got some decent work in a few of the games. Now that he has some experience his attempts should go up a bit and the inexperience should lead to more work for RBs

You're right there's "no guarantee". However, none of their RBs are even remotely special in any scenario other than Ingram. They're all JAG that did well due to a run heavy system.

I agree that the TD vulture argument, very good point. People were touting that as a concern with McCaffrey last year too.

I disagree on the JAG front. Justice Hill looks like an electric player and has been getting rave reviews out of camp. He was also the highest graded RB athlete at the combine and had impressive college tape too. He's a great complement to Ingram and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Hill earns a decent chunk of opportunity by midseason.

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Running the ball for the Ravens is going to be extremely difficult imo.  They will pound it for sure, but how many stacked boxes are the Ravens backs going to see with Lamar Jackson under center?    It's difficult to look at Ingrams #'s in NO and think they're applicable in Baltimore solely because of how different the supporting cast and offensive situations are.  I like Ingram at the right price, but man I wonder why the heck he signed there of all places.  

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5 minutes ago, dicka24 said:

Running the ball for the Ravens is going to be extremely difficult imo.  They will pound it for sure, but how many stacked boxes are the Ravens backs going to see with Lamar Jackson under center?    It's difficult to look at Ingrams #'s in NO and think they're applicable in Baltimore solely because of how different the supporting cast and offensive situations are.  I like Ingram at the right price, but man I wonder why the heck he signed there of all places.  

 

Gus Edwards averaged 5.2ypc with the exact same QB and offense just last season.

 

That is elite and Ingram is better than Edwards. 

 

I think your concern is in the wrong place.

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On 8/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Wow, just wow man

 

Ingram is a 2 time pro bowler and is miles better than Alex Collins at everything.

2017 Alex Collins was better than 2018 Mark Ingram by just about every metric except ball security. He was the unquestioned #1 going into 2018. Most predictions had him at 1200+ yards and top 15 RB.

Hell, 2018 Gus Edwards was just as effective as 2018 Mark Ingram by the advanced numbers.

The brushing off of Edwards as just a backup is insane. He just graded as the #2 rookie RB in all of football and was perfect alongside Lamar in the downhill bruiser role. Something he’s clearly valuable as. The “Ingram would have just been better in that role” idea is ridiculous. Edwards was actually GOOD last year in that role and his skillset complements it perfectly. Harbaugh would be absolutely dumb to subject his pricy 29-year old, 1300+ carry RB to that type of role when he has a young, fresh, big RB to burn.

It was fairly obvious to me that Baltimore was getting a RB this offseason - Edwards is pretty one dimensional and they needed playmakers. But not expecting him to be involved is nuts especially with Lamar set to run options every other play.

This absolutely screams headache to me.

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8 minutes ago, Ruut6 said:

2017 Alex Collins was better than 2018 Mark Ingram by just about every metric except ball security. He was the unquestioned #1 going into 2018. Most predictions had him at 1200+ yards and top 15 RB.

Hell, 2018 Gus Edwards was just as effective as 2018 Mark Ingram by the advanced numbers.

The brushing off of Edwards as just a backup is insane. He just graded as the #2 rookie RB in all of football and was perfect alongside Lamar in the downhill bruiser role. Something he’s clearly valuable as. The “Ingram would have just been better in that role” idea is ridiculous. Edwards was actually GOOD last year in that role and his skillset complements it perfectly. Harbaugh would be absolutely dumb to subject his pricy 29-year old, 1300+ carry RB to that type of role when he has a young, fresh, big RB to burn.

It was fairly obvious to me that Baltimore was getting a RB this offseason - Edwards is pretty one dimensional and they needed playmakers. But not expecting him to be involved is nuts especially with Lamar set to run options every other play.

This absolutely screams headache to me.

Gus, Hill and Jackson can all have some involvement and there is still 20 touches out there for Ingram.  Ravens led the league in rush attempts last.  They averaged close to 35 rushes a game.  If Ingram gets only half of the carries (let's round down to 17) and adds in 3-4 receptions per game, he is looking at 20+ touches.  Some question whether he can handle that much, but I see no reason why he can't.  

 

They paid Ingram to be the primary RB.  Gus should still be involved, maybe even moreso if they are in a blowout win and need to run out the clock in the 4th.  But a breakdown like this seems reasonable:

 

Ingram - 17 carries

Edwards - 8 carries

Lamar - 7 carries

Others - 2-3 carries

 

Hill should get some involvement in the passing game, but there should be plenty of touches to go around.  I don't think they want Lamar running the ball close to 150 times again.  I expect it to be closer to 100-115.

 

 

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17 hours ago, brosephd said:

Is Ingram going to play the last preseason game?

I highly doubt that. 

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1 hour ago, WEIL3R said:

Gus, Hill and Jackson can all have some involvement and there is still 20 touches out there for Ingram.  Ravens led the league in rush attempts last.  They averaged close to 35 rushes a game.  If Ingram gets only half of the carries (let's round down to 17) and adds in 3-4 receptions per game, he is looking at 20+ touches.  Some question whether he can handle that much, but I see no reason why he can't.  

 

They paid Ingram to be the primary RB.  Gus should still be involved, maybe even moreso if they are in a blowout win and need to run out the clock in the 4th.  But a breakdown like this seems reasonable:

 

Ingram - 17 carries

Edwards - 8 carries

Lamar - 7 carries

Others - 2-3 carries

 

Hill should get some involvement in the passing game, but there should be plenty of touches to go around.  I don't think they want Lamar running the ball close to 150 times again.  I expect it to be closer to 100-115.

 

 

Lamar averaged 17 rushes a game as a starter...

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4 minutes ago, Ruut6 said:

Lamar averaged 17 rushes a game as a starter...

Keep sleeping on Big Mark, all good I bet you anything he averages anywhere from 18-20 touches a game 

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9 hours ago, Ruut6 said:

Lamar averaged 17 rushes a game as a starter...

 

That was because they changed offenses on the fly and had to revert back to some 1950s NFL stuff.

They're supposedly running an entirely new offense.. one the "NFL has never seen before" according to Harbaugh. Harbaugh has also said jackson will run the ball over 147 times (the qb season rushing attempts record) but jackson has said he doesn't think he will.

Either way I doubt jackson is going to run 17 times a game again. But who knows.

Ingram: 200 carries 

Jackson: 150

Edward's:125

Hill and others: 75

550 total. Last year they had 547.

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The problem with having RBs with more designed roles like the Ravens has last season is that when you’re running read option plays, you handicap yourself if your personnel reveals to the defense what your tendencies may be on a particular play.  Whether the ravens had Dixon or Edwards in the game did that to an extent, and a complete back like Ingram who can carry the ball just as well as catch out of the backfield gives the Ravens the ability to disguise more on each play.  Lamar will steal some TDs but the more the league sees his dynamic rushing ability, the more the defense will hedge toward a QB keeper and, consequently, Lamar’s read will say to give the RB the ball at the mesh point instead of keeping it.  

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On 6/13/2019 at 8:47 AM, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

He's not getting cut. It's wild so many in this thread believe this. 

Really now? How about now?

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Where everyone taking this cat? I got him in the early 5th I picked him over David mont and Carson, might regret taking him over Carson maybe not 

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I got him in the 7th round (RB4!) and I am pretty surprised that he was available there. Get me right: I know that he will play for the Ravens now... But he is also capable to put up great perfomances.

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1 hour ago, Mr_Baller said:

I got him in the 7th round (RB4!) and I am pretty surprised that he was available there. Get me right: I know that he will play for the Ravens now... But he is also capable to put up great perfomances.

 

7th round?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr_Baller said:

I got him in the 7th round (RB4!) and I am pretty surprised that he was available there. Get me right: I know that he will play for the Ravens now... But he is also capable to put up great perfomances.

7th round is really late. Thought I stole him last night in the early 5th... 

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18 minutes ago, Fenrir said:

7th round is really late. Thought I stole him last night in the early 5th... 

Sounds more realistic than my dudes. At the moment he is my bench option behind Kamara, Cook and Fournette

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