Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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ASJ was a bum--on the Jacksonville Jaguars.  He's on the Patriots now, in case you hadn't noticed.

Engram's situation in 2019 is a bit different than it was in 2018.  Gone is a guy who got a lot of offensive focus, especially in the red zone: Odell Beckham, Jr.  Have you heard of him?

Hunter Henry, if healthy, is probably the best of them all.

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8 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

ASJ was a bum--on the Jacksonville Jaguars.  He's on the Patriots now, in case you hadn't noticed.

Engram's situation in 2019 is a bit different than it was in 2018.  Gone is a guy who got a lot of offensive focus, especially in the red zone: Odell Beckham, Jr.  Have you heard of him?

Hunter Henry, if healthy, is probably the best of them all.

 

 

ASJ was a bum at tampa bay then continued to be a be a bum at the jets and had a small uptick from bum to crap his 2nd year with the jets then he went from crap to a white hot dumpster fire in Jacksonville

 

Agree with the rest of this. Spot on.

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57 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

 

ASJ was a bum at tampa bay then continued to be a be a bum at the jets and had a small uptick from bum to crap his 2nd year with the jets then he went from crap to a white hot dumpster fire in Jacksonville

 

Agree with the rest of this. Spot on.

The original question referred to whether each TE’s system/coaching staff was fantasy-friendly for TEs - the answer is yes for all three.

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Check out the first thing that Winston mentions about Howard in the above-referenced “puff” article about how great Howard is: “He’s going to blow you off the ball with blocking....”  Yes, I believe he is, because he’s the best blocking TE on the team currently.  To the extent anyone is willing to invest a lot of import into an off-season puff-piece interview, that should be at least notable that he didn’t initially focus on his skills as a receiver.

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5 hours ago, BMcP said:

Check out the first thing that Winston mentions about Howard in the above-referenced “puff” article about how great Howard is: “He’s going to blow you off the ball with blocking....”  Yes, I believe he is, because he’s the best blocking TE on the team currently.  To the extent anyone is willing to invest a lot of import into an off-season puff-piece interview, that should be at least notable that he didn’t initially focus on his skills as a receiver.

Well, neither will Bruce Arians.

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9 hours ago, Stonej14 said:

 

 

ASJ was a bum at tampa bay then continued to be a be a bum at the jets 

 

No.

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6 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

ASJ was a bum--on the Jacksonville Jaguars.  He's on the Patriots now, in case you hadn't noticed.

Engram's situation in 2019 is a bit different than it was in 2018.  Gone is a guy who got a lot of offensive focus, especially in the red zone: Odell Beckham, Jr.  Have you heard of him?

Hunter Henry, if healthy, is probably the best of them all.

ASJ is on the Pats now, sure. No guarantee he’ll even make the regular season cut. Pats will likely draft a TE early. ASJ doesn’t even belong in this conversation. 

Engram’s situation is a bit different than it was in 2018. Gone is a guy who demanded a lot of defensive focus, at all times. Engram’s job certainly will not get easier with the departure of Odell Beckham. Goodbye wide open spaces.

Conversely, with Mike Evans getting the primary corner one side, possibly double teamed, and Chris Godwin getting his due attention on the other, the offensive guru Bruce Arians has an obvious dream mismatch to exploit with OJ Howard in single coverage all over the field. But you think he’s too stubborn or dumb to take advantage of that, right? 

Hunter Henry is in a similar situation as OJ in a couple respects, though he isn’t the same vertical threat. Personally I prefer the more explosive Howard, especially in an offense that features plenty of downfield passing. Good luck to the linebackers trying to deal with Howard’s size and speed. Henry may catch more passes, but Howard’s YAC should more than make up for that.

 

 

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6 hours ago, BMcP said:

Check out the first thing that Winston mentions about Howard in the above-referenced “puff” article about how great Howard is: “He’s going to blow you off the ball with blocking....”  Yes, I believe he is, because he’s the best blocking TE on the team currently.  To the extent anyone is willing to invest a lot of import into an off-season puff-piece interview, that should be at least notable that he didn’t initially focus on his skills as a receiver.

You have an odd understanding of the phrase, “first thing”.

The first thing Winston mentions is Howard’s unlimited potential, and that he cannot be stopped. Then he briefly mentions Howards excellent blocking ability (as if that’s a bad thing?) before talking about Howard being a Pro Bowl caliber TE. 

"The sky's the limit really, not even the sky -- probably the moon," Winston said, via Pewter Report. "Why limit him there? This guy, he's incredible. You can't really stop O.J. from doing anything. He's going to blow you off the ball with blocking, he'll run past you and stiff arm you. I know he's going to have a great season and Lord willing, he's going to stay healthy and make it to the Pro Bowl like he was before he got injured."

The blocking part was the first thing you heard because that’s what you want to hear, but it certainly wasn’t the first thing Winston said. 

By the way, since when is being an excellent blocker a bad thing? Much like RBs, a good blocking TE can stay on the field on all downs regardless of situation, which allows the offense to be far more versatile and unpredictable. Howard can line up as a blocker in traditional running situations and blow a defender off the line or spring loose downfield. Much harder to defend a well rounded TE like Howard vs a TE who’s only on the field to block or only on the field to catch passes.

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47 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Yes

 

Zero chance you've watched him play much if you think healthy/sober ASJ is a bum.

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10 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

ASJ was a bum--on the Jacksonville Jaguars.  He's on the Patriots now, in case you hadn't noticed.

Engram's situation in 2019 is a bit different than it was in 2018.  Gone is a guy who got a lot of offensive focus, especially in the red zone: Odell Beckham, Jr.  Have you heard of him?

Hunter Henry, if healthy, is probably the best of them all.

 

29 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

You have an odd understanding of the phrase, “first thing”.

The first thing Winston mentions is Howard’s unlimited potential, and that he cannot be stopped. Then he briefly mentions Howards excellent blocking ability (as if that’s a bad thing?) before talking about Howard being a Pro Bowl caliber TE. 

"The sky's the limit really, not even the sky -- probably the moon," Winston said, via Pewter Report. "Why limit him there? This guy, he's incredible. You can't really stop O.J. from doing anything. He's going to blow you off the ball with blocking, he'll run past you and stiff arm you. I know he's going to have a great season and Lord willing, he's going to stay healthy and make it to the Pro Bowl like he was before he got injured."

The blocking part was the first thing you heard because that’s what you want to hear, but it certainly wasn’t the first thing Winston said. 

By the way, since when is being an excellent blocker a bad thing? Much like RBs, a good blocking TE can stay on the field on all downs regardless of situation, which allows the offense to be far more versatile and unpredictable. Howard can line up as a blocker in traditional running situations and blow a defender off the line or spring loose downfield. Much harder to defend a well rounded TE like Howard vs a TE who’s only on the field to block or only on the field to catch passes.

 

in my rankings, i have

1. Kelce

2. Ertz

and at #3 most likely george kittle.

thing is, i can see #4-7 pushing kittle for that #3 spot: oj howard, hunter henry, evan engram, and eric ebron can all get to #3 by season's end, imo. if vance plays a full angry 16 games, he could easily be there as well.

i don't like ebron at #3 as TDs are fluky, though he's clearly linked to the best QB. i can't see engram ascending the ladder because despite OBJ's departure eli has not shown us enough in the past 2.5 years.

for me, it's hunter henry and oj howard at #4. i see oj's athleticism as the clear mismatch machine for every well-designed play. he will be on the field continually for multiple purposes, and like lamont states, oj's vertical threat is insane (although it's close, i'd suggest oj howard's vertical threat is the most dangerous in the league for TEs --- greatly looking forward to seeing it in action again).

what scares me is jameis winston, not the coaching. oj howard will be utilized, but winston's erratic gameplay may lead to too many duds: i'd rather have my safe 12 points per week than 20 points one week and 3 points the next. for this reason, i have hunter henry slightly above oj howard in my rankings. rivers looked great last year. like the bucs' evans and godwin, the bolts also have the mismatch machine aligned: their WR corps is tough to handle, and they have gordon in the backfield, and then defenses have to deal with hunter henry. i view oj howard as the better athlete, but hunter henry is a bigger cog in a better machine.

jameis winston: "i'm like the crocodile hunter but with roaches" (hard knocks last august). how much do you trust the roach hunter?

cog-small.gif

 

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1 hour ago, Lamont Sanford said:

You have an odd understanding of the phrase, “first thing”.

The first thing Winston mentions is Howard’s unlimited potential, and that he cannot be stopped. Then he briefly mentions Howards excellent blocking ability (as if that’s a bad thing?) before talking about Howard being a Pro Bowl caliber TE. 

"The sky's the limit really, not even the sky -- probably the moon," Winston said, via Pewter Report. "Why limit him there? This guy, he's incredible. You can't really stop O.J. from doing anything. He's going to blow you off the ball with blocking, he'll run past you and stiff arm you. I know he's going to have a great season and Lord willing, he's going to stay healthy and make it to the Pro Bowl like he was before he got injured."

The blocking part was the first thing you heard because that’s what you want to hear, but it certainly wasn’t the first thing Winston said. 

By the way, since when is being an excellent blocker a bad thing? Much like RBs, a good blocking TE can stay on the field on all downs regardless of situation, which allows the offense to be far more versatile and unpredictable. Howard can line up as a blocker in traditional running situations and blow a defender off the line or spring loose downfield. Much harder to defend a well rounded TE like Howard vs a TE who’s only on the field to block or only on the field to catch passes.

How dare you post that quote without taking it out of context!

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11 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

ASJ was a bum--on the Jacksonville Jaguars.  He's on the Patriots now, in case you hadn't noticed.

Engram's situation in 2019 is a bit different than it was in 2018.  Gone is a guy who got a lot of offensive focus, especially in the red zone: Odell Beckham, Jr.  Have you heard of him?

Hunter Henry, if healthy, is probably the best of them all.

 

Desean Jackson and Adam Humphries left more targets available for OJ in Tampa than Engram will have available after OBJ left.

 

ASJ is on NE? I didn't know that but you might have just as much luck drafting Jacob Hollister, I doubt anyone comes close to HOF TE Gronkowskis numbers in NE.

 

What makes Hunter Henry better than OJ if you don't mind me asking? I would be more nervous about injury with Hunter Henry than I would be with OJ Howard and Howard is the more talented receiving threat.

 

Just a quick look at Pat Shurmur and some of the TEs he coached as an OC or HC.

 

2009 Rams OC - Randy McMichael 34 for 332 and 1 TD

 

2011 HC Browns - Been Watson 37 for 410 and 2 TDs

 

2013 Eagles OC - Brent Celek 32 for 502 and 6 TDs

 

2014 Eagles OC and Intermediate HC- Brent Celek 32 for 340 and 1 TD

 

2017 Vikings OC - Kyle Rudolph 57 for 532 and 8 TDs

 

2018 NYG HC - Evan engram 

45 for 577 and 3 TDs

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Zero chance you've watched him play much if you think healthy/sober ASJ is a bum.

 

Oh I watched him, I had him on my team. I think he broke 50 yards once that half way decent year for the jets. And when you only half one half way decent season in 6 years. Your a bum when guys like Mercedes Lewis and garrett celeck have a better season than your best season. Maybe I'm just jaded from being let down by him. 

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11 hours ago, BMcP said:

Check out the first thing that Winston mentions about Howard in the above-referenced “puff” article about how great Howard is: “He’s going to blow you off the ball with blocking....”  Yes, I believe he is, because he’s the best blocking TE on the team currently.  To the extent anyone is willing to invest a lot of import into an off-season puff-piece interview, that should be at least notable that he didn’t initially focus on his skills as a receiver.

 

Wow. Howard seems to be quite the impressive player given what we’ve seen of his receiving abilities and how they speak of his blocking. How will Brate ever see the field if OJ is better than him at literally everything?

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8 minutes ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Wow. Howard seems to be quite the impressive player given what we’ve seen of his receiving abilities and how they speak of his blocking. How will Brate ever see the field if OJ is better than him at literally everything?

 

 Oj has always been better than him at blocking but brate has always seen the field 

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1 hour ago, Stonej14 said:

 

 Oj has always been better than him at blocking but brate has always seen the field 

 

Hmmm. I wonder if that’s part of the reason why their last coach got fired? Doesn’t make much sense to give significant time to inferior players when there are clear better options. Thankfully Bruce Arians, based on his track record, is much smarter than that.

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Posted (edited)

Tampa Bay Buccaneers have interest in former AAF tight end

“The Buccaneers currently have O.J. Howard, Cameron Brate, Antony Auclair, Tanner Hudson, and Donnie Ernsberger on the roster at the tight end position. However, given Brate’s contract situation, due to make $7 million as a second tight end, the Buccaneers could move him.”

https://thepewterplank.com/2019/04/09/79605/

Edited by Lamont Sanford
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7 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers have interest in former AAF tight end

“The Buccaneers currently have O.J. Howard, Cameron Brate, Antony Auclair, Tanner Hudson, and Donnie Ernsberger on the roster at the tight end position. However, given Brate’s contract situation, due to make $7 million as a second tight end, the Buccaneers could move him.”

https://thepewterplank.com/2019/04/09/79605/

 

That certainly would blow a hole in the theory that Brate would steal production from OJ.

 

 

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Who is going to trade for Cameron Brate?  He stinks.  But Winston loves him irrationally, thus the only fantasy relevance Brate has is capping Howard's upside.  If Brate is traded or released, which I doubt, Howard will get a little boost in my rankings, but the injury concerns and the system concerns will remain.

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10 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

You have an odd understanding of the phrase, “first thing”.

The first thing Winston mentions is Howard’s unlimited potential, and that he cannot be stopped. Then he briefly mentions Howards excellent blocking ability (as if that’s a bad thing?) before talking about Howard being a Pro Bowl caliber TE. 

"The sky's the limit really, not even the sky -- probably the moon," Winston said, via Pewter Report. "Why limit him there? This guy, he's incredible. You can't really stop O.J. from doing anything. He's going to blow you off the ball with blocking, he'll run past you and stiff arm you. I know he's going to have a great season and Lord willing, he's going to stay healthy and make it to the Pro Bowl like he was before he got injured."

The blocking part was the first thing you heard because that’s what you want to hear, but it certainly wasn’t the first thing Winston said. 

By the way, since when is being an excellent blocker a bad thing? Much like RBs, a good blocking TE can stay on the field on all downs regardless of situation, which allows the offense to be far more versatile and unpredictable. Howard can line up as a blocker in traditional running situations and blow a defender off the line or spring loose downfield. Much harder to defend a well rounded TE like Howard vs a TE who’s only on the field to block or only on the field to catch passes.

Lamont, while it’s true (obviously) that his “potential” was the first mention, the first aspect of Howard’s game that Winston mentioned was “blocking” (and no, that’s not a bad thing at all, in terms of his real-world value).  I’m just saying that, if you’re the type of person who places any sort of value on puff-pieces for purposes of evaluating a player’s fantasy value, it’s telling that blocking was the first attribute mentioned (Note: I personally do not read anything into these pieces.). It seems similar to coachspeak in cases where the HC is asked about his RBs and goes on to mention one name first - if inclined, you can infer that that player will lead the rotation.

Each to his own, but all I see is a QB talking up his player when questioned about him by a reporter.  I’m glad he didn’t just say “no comment” or say something ambivalent, but frankly it tells us nothing about how Arians intends to deploy Howard.

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8 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Desean Jackson and Adam Humphries left more targets available for OJ in Tampa than Engram will have available after OBJ left.

 

ASJ is on NE? I didn't know that but you might have just as much luck drafting Jacob Hollister, I doubt anyone comes close to HOF TE Gronkowskis numbers in NE.

 

What makes Hunter Henry better than OJ if you don't mind me asking? I would be more nervous about injury with Hunter Henry than I would be with OJ Howard and Howard is the more talented receiving threat.

 

Just a quick look at Pat Shurmur and some of the TEs he coached as an OC or HC.

 

2009 Rams OC - Randy McMichael 34 for 332 and 1 TD

 

2011 HC Browns - Been Watson 37 for 410 and 2 TDs

 

2013 Eagles OC - Brent Celek 32 for 502 and 6 TDs

 

2014 Eagles OC and Intermediate HC- Brent Celek 32 for 340 and 1 TD

 

2017 Vikings OC - Kyle Rudolph 57 for 532 and 8 TDs

 

2018 NYG HC - Evan engram 

45 for 577 and 3 TDs

 

 

 

Now that we’ve determined that all three TEs you listed above are in systems more friendly to the TE, one question: why are we assuming TB won’t draft a receiver who will be seeing the field as of Week 1 in 3-wide sets?  The target vacuum left by the departure of those two players is going to be filled by a multiplicity of players, at least one of which is not on the team currently.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Wow. Howard seems to be quite the impressive player given what we’ve seen of his receiving abilities and how they speak of his blocking. How will Brate ever see the field if OJ is better than him at literally everything?

Right?  It’s almost like they’ve never been on the field together before - we just have no idea, I guess.

Edited by BMcP

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3 hours ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Hmmm. I wonder if that’s part of the reason why their last coach got fired? Doesn’t make much sense to give significant time to inferior players when there are clear better options. Thankfully Bruce Arians, based on his track record, is much smarter than that.

Why, as an advocate of Howard, would you be delighted to bring up that Todd Monken, and his Air Raid offense that was close to ideal for maximizing the fantasy potential of all receivers on the team, was “fired”?  

Spoiler alert: that’s not a positive for Howard’s value.

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2 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers have interest in former AAF tight end

“The Buccaneers currently have O.J. Howard, Cameron Brate, Antony Auclair, Tanner Hudson, and Donnie Ernsberger on the roster at the tight end position. However, given Brate’s contract situation, due to make $7 million as a second tight end, the Buccaneers could move him.”

https://thepewterplank.com/2019/04/09/79605/

Any AAF TE they sign - particularly whoever the heck this guy is - would be signed purely for depth as a practice-squad piece.  No relevance whatsoever to the Howard/Brate situation.  

But I admire your daily Internet scouring!

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