Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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8 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Really? Do you need a refresher in coach speak? here is an example that trumps your view. . . 😂

 Gruden told reporters Wednesday at the NFL Scouting Combine. "He'll be the focal point of our offense ... the headliner in our offense."

 

Amari cooper was never the focal point of the offense and he became the headliner  when he was traded 😜

Now that sounds like a coach speak, trying to motivate an underachieving WR.

On the other hand, “there’s not a lot of those human beings (OJH) walking around on earth.” sounds different to me.

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But remember the Bucs want to win football games and they don't care about fantasy stats.  Leftwich could be raving about Howard's blocking for all we know.

Howard could very well be a huge contributer to their success, and it might not show up on the stat sheet.

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9 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

But remember the Bucs want to win football games and they don't care about fantasy stats.  

Common Sharky, you’re better than a tired argument like that. The same exact thing can be said about the Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, Pats, and every other team in the NFL. Didn’t stop Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, Gronk, etc from being great fantasy TEs. 

9 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Leftwich could be raving about Howard's blocking for all we know.

Leftwich is likely raving about everything OJ Howard does well, which is what makes him such a special talent. He’s a great blocker, and more importantly for fantasy purposes a tremendous receiver with a rare blend of size, speed, and route running ability that makes him such a matchup nightmare for defenses. Some seem to think that Howard being a great blocker somehow hurts his fantasy outlook, which makes zero sense. You know who else was a great blocker? Gronk. Being a great blocker means staying on the field in all situations, and being a receiving threat on every down. 

 

9 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Howard could very well be a huge contributer to their success, and it might not show up on the stat sheet.

This seems an unlikely outcome, considering Howard is one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL on what should be an explosive offense. It’s far more likely that if Howard is a huge contributor to TB’s success it will indeed show up on the stat sheet in a big way.

I appreciate your commitment to being an OJ fantasy detractor, but there are so many reasons to expect big things from him this year and so few to expect otherwise. 

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On 5/9/2019 at 6:46 AM, SharkSwimmer said:

But remember the Bucs want to win football games and they don't care about fantasy stats.  Leftwich could be raving about Howard's blocking for all we know.

Howard could very well be a huge contributer to their success, and it might not show up on the stat sheet.

 

This is the definition of a lazy argument.

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Posted (edited)

160 vacated targets.  Defense is possibly somehow even worse than last year.  Same exact running game as last year.  No added WR's.  It's tough to understand criticism of this guy's ADP at this point.  

Edited by RMJ_12

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19 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

160 vacated targets.  Defense is possibly somehow even worse than last year.  Same exact running game as last year.  No added WR's.  It's tough to understand criticism of this guy's ADP at this point.  

Engram-howard-Henry-Ebron are in a very tight TE grouping. 

Engram->henry-> howard  is probably the order i would take them as they fall to me

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17 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Common Sharky, you’re better than a tired argument like that. The same exact thing can be said about the Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, Pats, and every other team in the NFL. Didn’t stop Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, Gronk, etc from being great fantasy TEs. 

Leftwich is likely raving about everything OJ Howard does well, which is what makes him such a special talent. He’s a great blocker, and more importantly for fantasy purposes a tremendous receiver with a rare blend of size, speed, and route running ability that makes him such a matchup nightmare for defenses. Some seem to think that Howard being a great blocker somehow hurts his fantasy outlook, which makes zero sense. You know who else was a great blocker? Gronk. Being a great blocker means staying on the field in all situations, and being a receiving threat on every down. 

 

This seems an unlikely outcome, considering Howard is one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL on what should be an explosive offense. It’s far more likely that if Howard is a huge contributor to TB’s success it will indeed show up on the stat sheet in a big way.

I appreciate your commitment to being an OJ fantasy detractor, but there are so many reasons to expect big things from him this year and so few to expect otherwise. 

You have your optimism and the sunny spring-time quotes from the Bucs brand new coaching staff.  I have ten years of Bruce Arians's TE usage.  We'll see who is correct starting this fall.  I will he happy to be proved wrong because I like OJ Howard and he is fun to watch.

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26 minutes ago, dashoe said:

Engram-howard-Henry-Ebron are in a very tight TE grouping. 

Engram->henry-> howard  is probably the order i would take them as they fall to me

 

Howard's run after the catch ability is better than Engram or Henry.

If you like engram and Henrys situation better I can understand that but Howard is a big play waiting to happen.

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4 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Howard's run after the catch ability is better than Engram or Henry.

If you like engram and Henrys situation better I can understand that but Howard is a big play waiting to happen.

 

For me it is more situation than talent Engram is literally the biggest pass catcher for Eli and his best red zone threat.  We have all seen how dynamic and productive henry can be in the Bolts offense and they can move the ball downfield fast.  We have yet to see the new bucs offense as it transitions from Air Raid to Arians and how Howard will produce in it. 

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5 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Howard's run after the catch ability is better than Engram or Henry.

If you like engram and Henrys situation better I can understand that but Howard is a big play waiting to happen.

 

Engram is the fastest of the bunch. Can certainly break off some big plays. Hasnt had the greatest opportunity. 

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17 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Engram is the fastest of the bunch. Can certainly break off some big plays. Hasnt had the greatest opportunity. 

 

I agree Engram is the fastest of the bunch without pads and at the combine.

Game speed is slightly different and OJs thicker body helps him shed tacklers a little bit better. Both should be in for big years but I like Tampa's QB situation better.

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3 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

I agree Engram is the fastest of the bunch without pads and at the combine.

Game speed is slightly different and OJs thicker body helps him shed tacklers a little bit better. Both should be in for big years but I like Tampa's QB situation better.

 

Yeah Bucs should pass and score a bunch. Im in on Godwin myself. 

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13 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Yeah Bucs should pass and score a bunch. Im in on Godwin myself. 

 

I won't tell you that I like Godwin so you can keep him all to yourself.

😂

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On 5/9/2019 at 6:22 AM, Lamont Sanford said:

Now that sounds like a coach speak, trying to motivate an underachieving WR.

On the other hand, “there’s not a lot of those human beings (OJH) walking around on earth.” sounds different to me.

The difference is that Gruden's puffery of Amari Cooper looked especially meaningless when the Raiders shipped the WR out to Dallas a few months later.  The Bucs CS quotes about OJ Howard?  We have yet to see how they'll use him.  And they could use Howard in a way that devastates opponent game plans but does not translate into fantasy football stats.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The difference is that Gruden's puffery of Amari Cooper looked especially meaningless when the Raiders shipped the WR out to Dallas a few months later.  The Bucs CS quotes about OJ Howard?  We have yet to see how they'll use him.  And they could use Howard in a way that devastates opponent game plans but does not translate into fantasy football stats.

 

It was meaningless week1 when Amari had 3 TARGETS   🤣

 

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I wonder how many starting TEs in the league are currently under 25.  Maybe Engram?

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I wonder how many starting TEs in the league are currently under 25.  Maybe Engram?

 

Engram

Njoku

Howard

Herndon

Hooper

Ian Thomas

Gesicki

Mark Andrews

Edit: Ricky Seals-Jones

Jonnu Smith

Gerald Everett

Jesse James (maybe not a starter now that Detroit has Hockenson)

Blake Jarwin

Will Dissly

 

Rookies who are likely "starters"

Hockenson

Fant 

Irv Smith Jr.?

Jace Sternberger?

Kahale Warring?

Josh Oliver?

Dawson Knox?

Edited by mjb03003
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The only decent TE's on that list are Engram, Njoku, and Howard.

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43 minutes ago, devaster said:

The only decent TE's on that list are Engram, Njoku, and Howard.

Speaking of Njoku and Engram, it’s funny they’re basically receiving no pub while Howard soaks in all the pre-draft glory.  Both of them had tremendously improved second-halves last year (by PFF rating):

Engram H1: 54.8; H2: 91.7

Njoku H1: 55.6; H2: 78.5

They both owed a lot of that improvement to doing more work after the catch and displaying surer hands.  And Njoku’s improvement aligns directly with the handing-off of the reins to now-HC Kitchens.

I’m not claiming either is an all-around better player than Howard, but they do seem more deserving of attention in drafts this season.

 

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Howard in the 5th or Engram in the 7th or Njoku in the 9th?  Hmmm.....

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3 hours ago, BMcP said:

Speaking of Njoku and Engram, it’s funny they’re basically receiving no pub while Howard soaks in all the pre-draft glory.  Both of them had tremendously improved second-halves last year (by PFF rating):

Engram H1: 54.8; H2: 91.7

Njoku H1: 55.6; H2: 78.5

They both owed a lot of that improvement to doing more work after the catch and displaying surer hands.  And Njoku’s improvement aligns directly with the handing-off of the reins to now-HC Kitchens.

I’m not claiming either is an all-around better player than Howard, but they do seem more deserving of attention in drafts this season.

 

 

Njoku is interesting. Playing with Baker Mayfield I definitely think he could leap into the upper echelon of receiving TEs.

 

Engram is a great receiving talent as well I just can't stand counting on Eli Manning to pepper engram with catchable targets 

 

OJ has Winston who loves throwing to the TE but can be erratic as well and with Arians in town questions about TE useage are valid questions.

 

If you could draft Njoku after Howard had been drafted I think that would be a steal cause there is a real chance Njoku could outperform Engram and Howard in fantasy.

 

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Njoku is already the most overvalued TE.  Do you really expect him to get better with a smaller target share?  He was awful last season in his 2nd year.

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4 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Howard in the 5th or Engram in the 7th or Njoku in the 9th?  Hmmm.....

 

Hard pass on all three.

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