Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

Not sure why you guys pretend Brate is not a relevant factor. . 🤣

Howard missed 9 games and Brate caught 30 passes.  Reevaluate your Cameron Brate analysis, please.

 

160 vacant targets from last season and you're stil talking about Brate limiting the #5 TE in ppg last season.

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6 minutes ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Thankfully Brate is irrelevant when OJ plays so none of these stats you’ve conjured up are relevant, so long as OJ isn’t injured. Last season Brate “vultured” less TDs than Goddert, Demetrius Harris, and Kittle’s backups. Brate is a non factor on OJs potential outlook.

 

You do know Brate was playing injured since week 1 last season? There is opinion and there is fact. Most of what i am reading from you and others is OPINION with not much FACT supporting it. 

Also I don't "conjure" stats, I research them.  

Momma says, "Foosball is of the Devil!  🤣

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1 minute ago, RMJ_12 said:

Howard missed 9 games and Brate caught 30 passes.  Reevaluate your Cameron Brate analysis, please.

 

160 vacant targets from last season and you're stil talking about Brate limiting the #5 TE in ppg last season.

You go first and evaluate your last years vacant targets analysis based on a different offense, defense, coaching staff and personnel. . .🤣

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This Brate nonsense is absurd. On one hand I’m supposed to belive Arians is going to avoid exploiting a superior talented OJ Howard because Arians doesn’t throw to the TE. Yet, at the same time I’m supposed to believe he’s going to find a way to make OJ’s backup a viable fantasy TE?

On top of that, TB has zero cap space and Brate is clearly expendable. Good chance he’s out of the picture in 2019. Or, if Arians doesn’t truly value a TE like OJ, perhaps he gets traded (to NE for a RB?) and they stick with Brate. Regardless, Brate will not be a significant deterrent to OJ’s fantasy success in 2019.

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16 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

You do know Brate was playing injured since week 1 last season? There is opinion and there is fact. Most of what i am reading from you and others is OPINION with not much FACT supporting it. 

Also I don't "conjure" stats, I research them.  

Momma says, "Foosball is of the Devil!  🤣

 

Oj had 4 red zone TD on 6 targets with Jameis as his QB in 7 games.

Brate had 1 red zone TD on 3 targets with OJ on the field and Jameis as his QB in 6 games.

Brate is a non factor when OJ is on the field.

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3 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

This Brate nonsense is absurd. On one hand I’m supposed to belive Arians is going to avoid exploiting a superior talented OJ Howard because Arians doesn’t throw to the TE. Yet, at the same time I’m supposed to believe he’s going to find a way to make OJ’s backup a viable fantasy TE?

On top of that, TB has zero cap space and Brate is clearly expendable. Good chance he’s out of the picture in 2019. Or, if Arians doesn’t truly value a TE like OJ, perhaps he gets traded (to NE for a RB?) and they stick with Brate. Regardless, Brate will not be a significant deterrent to OJ’s fantasy success in 2019.

 

No one said that. That's your misguided  OJ love controlling you. I pointed out that Brate gets   a bit over half of the  red/end zone  for the last 2yrs and that is RELEVANT to the fantasy production of OJ.  The top TE's get 25%-35% of that target share and they don't split it with another TE

Whew! You guys do mental somersaults to deny facts. . .🤣

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8 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

No one said that. That's your misguided  OJ love controlling you. I pointed out that Brate gets   a bit over half of the  red/end zone  for the last 2yrs and that is RELEVANT to the fantasy production of OJ.  The top TE's get 25%-35% of that target share and they don't split it with another TE

Whew! You guys do mental somersaults to deny facts. . .🤣

You said you'd want to pick up brate for free. Why bother when even the starting TE sucks in this offense? 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

You said you'd want to pick up brate for free. Why bother when even the starting TE sucks in this offense? 

 

Lol. This dude is targeting the backup tight end for a scheme he believes has no interest in passing to tight ends. Is he trying to come in last place?

Edited by MJJ28
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7 minutes ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Oj had 4 red zone TD on 6 targets with Jameis as his QB in 7 games.

Brate had 1 red zone TD on 3 targets with OJ on the field and Jameis as his QB in 6 games.

Brate is a non factor when OJ is on the field.

 

 I think u miss the overall point it doesnt matter if BRATE is on the field with him or not. . the  rz/ez target share percentage has been relatively consistent the last 2yrs.

The fact is OJ was not getting the same  rz/ez target share as kelce/gronk/kittles/ertz. .  the guys who were ELITE TE's the last 2yrs.

As long as Brate is healthy and on the field OJ's rz/ez target share percentage will not  reach the levels the  elite TE's achieve.

Stop fighting it dude, it's staring you in the face. . . 👀

What is sounds like you guys are banking on is that OJ will continue to be used as a downfield threat as he was in Monkens scheme last season which was why his production was significant. 

What you need to ask yourself is WHAT WILL ARIANS DO WITH OJ AND BRATE THIS SEASON?

To say Brate is irrelevant is just a bad process because he will be relevant in a football sense and that relevancy can affect  OJ's fantasy production in the rz/ez if the targets shares remain consistent 👏

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1 minute ago, dashoe said:

 

 I think u miss the overall point it doesnt matter if BRATE is on the field with him or not. . the  rz/ez target share percentage has been relatively consistent the last 2yrs.

The fact is OJ was not getting the same  rz/ez target share as kelce/gronk/kittles/ertz. .  the guys who were ELITE TE's the last 2yrs.

As long as Brate is healthy and on the field OJ's rz/ez target share percentage will not  reach the levels the  elite TE's achieve.

Stop fighting it dude, it's staring you in the face. . . 👀

What is sounds like you guys are banking on is that OJ will continue to be used as a downfield threat as he was in Monkens scheme last season which was why his production was significant. 

What you need to ask yourself is WHAT WILL ARIANS DO WITH OJ AND BRATE THIS SEASON?

To say Brate is irrelevant is just a bad process because he will be relevant in a football sense and that relevancy can affect  OJ's fantasy production in the rz/ez if the targets shares remain consistent 👏

 

OJ is a 5th/6th rounder.

Kelce, Kittle, and Ertz are 2nd rounders.

Nobody expects OJ to produce like those three, or else he would be drafted in the same slot as them.

You are imagining things.

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2 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

It usually takes TE a few years to develop, which is part of the excitement surrounding OJ. In just his second season, we had articles like this-

O.J. Howard off to a flying start, standing out as the best tight end in football

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/o-j-howard-off-to-a-flying-start-standing-out-as-the-best-tight-end-in-football

Now entering his 3rd season, which is often the breakout season for promising TEs, with a great offensive minded coach there is clearly potential for OJ Howard to be an elite TE in 2019.

 

Emphasis on POTENTIAL.  

 

It is not fait accompli as most on this thread have presumed. 

 

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6 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

You said you'd want to pick up brate for free. Why bother when even the starting TE sucks in this offense? 

 

I said  Brate  IS FREE not that I WANT  to pick him up . .reading comprehension my friend will help you go far in a discussion. . .😂

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7 minutes ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Lol. This dude is targeting the backup tight end for a scheme he believes has no interest in passing to tight ends. Is he trying to come in last place?

Show me where i stated i was targeting  the backup TE. . . maybe you can using your favorite word. . . "CONJURE" that post. . . .🤣

 

I love how you guys are just all over the map defending your OJ love and i'm not even anti- OJ just poking some holes in the hype balloon. . .🤪

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3 minutes ago, dashoe said:

Show me where i stated i was targeting  the backup TE. . . maybe you can using your favorite word. . . "CONJURE" that post. . . .🤣

 

I love how you guys are just all over the map defending your OJ love and i'm not even anti- OJ just poking some holes in the hype balloon. . .🤪

 

You said he is a steal because he is free.

if you aren’t targeting players you think are steals, what are you doing?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, dashoe said:

The fact is OJ was not getting the same rz/ez target share as kelce/gronk/kittles/ertz. .  the guys who were ELITE TE's the last 2yrs.

Then maybe you should go back and research those guys rz shares in their first 2 years in the league.  You know, make it a more fair comparison.

 

And Maybe only use the games that OJ Howard actually played in when referring to Brate's rz share.

Edited by RMJ_12
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42 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

I said  Brate  IS FREE not that I WANT  to pick him up . .reading comprehension my friend will help you go far in a discussion. . .😂

it was implied but keep with that reading comprehension nonsense. You can admit you're wrong, it's ok.

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22 minutes ago, MJJ28 said:

 

You said he is a steal because he is free.

if you aren’t targeting players you think are steals, what are you doing?

 

So you actually play fantasy football correct?

He is free and will be on waivers  which makes him a "steal"  vs OJ in the 5th rd, so why would i waste draft capital on a player who will be free on the waiver? 

There are lots of "steals" because they are free on the waiver but it doesnt mean I have to roster all of them.

And in case you didnt realize it I was being tongue in cheek when I made that post but i'm sure u guys knew this but  per ususal you are grasping at anything and making up stuff i didnt say instead f accepting the the fact that I showed you brate limits Howards targt share  which is oppottunity in the  rz/ez whereas elite te's get double his opportunity in those areas.

Also Brate doent fit my criteria for a starting TE, his target share is too small but I could see him as bye week filler.  Same as OJ doesnt fit my criteria for his draft capital. You can grab OJ in the 5th getting  limited weekly by brate and i'll take the shot on Hunter+ njoku in the 7th,  walker in the 11th, reed  in the 14th who dont have other te's competing for target share

I know what I'm doing but do you? 😂

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

it was implied but keep with that reading comprehension nonsense. You can admit you're wrong, it's ok.

 

it wasnt implied. I think you have read enough of my posts in the forum to know I am very particular about what I write and if it was implied i would  have confirmed your assertion and actually said yes that is what I meant.  I am always willing to state if I will draft a player or target him for my team or put him on my radar; i am very consistent with that process. This is not a discussion where being right or wrong is particularly relevant. I have no interest in Cameron Brate but you can continue to believe that you think my post implied differently if you want to be "right". 🤔

 

Edited by dashoe

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OJ Howard is going to struggle for consistent fantasy relevance because of the offense he will be in, regardless of his talent.  And, Howard's questionable upside is even further capped by the presence of Winston red-zone favorite Brate.  Howard will probably have three or four big games out of 16.  Good luck predicting which ones!!

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43 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

OJ Howard is going to struggle for consistent fantasy relevance because of the offense he will be in, regardless of his talent.  And, Howard's questionable upside is even further capped by the presence of Winston red-zone favorite Brate.  Howard will probably have three or four big games out of 16.  Good luck predicting which ones!!

What is this?  Page 1 of the thread?

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I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been locked down. You guys have done nothing but argue in circles for 23 pages. 

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I was responding to the concept of Brate having zero stand alone value, yet still cutting into OJ Howard's limited opportunities.

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14 hours ago, dashoe said:

1.  I think you significantly overlook Brate + OJ effectively  are fungible in the TE role as they both create mismatches, TB has arguably the best TE duo in the NFL in terms of guys who can BOTH block and catch.  OJ is the better athlete but let's not pretend that Brate can't perform at a high level, that would be disingenuous. 

2. 9 games is large enough to demonstrate that the target share percentages are relevant and the year to year splits show the consistency. OJ was NOT going to get a 25-35% share even if he played 16 games. 

I will take the bet he wont achieve those target shares this year either as long as Brate is on the field.

3. You might need to stop and realize that Brate limits his opportunity and production particularly in the rz/ez where a few targets can easily give you double digit fantasy points.

Not sure why you guys pretend Brate is not a relevant factor. . 🤣

O.J. Howard has 11 TD's in 24 games.  A higher career TD % than Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, and Henry.  Actually I'm guessing it's the highest career TD % of any TE in the entire league.  Sure, keep arguing how Cameron Brate's rz presence limits Howard's upside.

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6 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

O.J. Howard has 11 TD's in 24 games.  A higher career TD % than Kelce, Ertz, Kittle, and Henry.  Actually I'm guessing it's the highest career TD % of any TE in the entire league.  Sure, keep arguing how Cameron Brate's rz presence limits Howard's upside.

11TD's over 2 seasons. .very nice. . .  yet you can't  disprove that Brate limits OJ's upside when the number show his rz/ez target % is half that of elite TE's because Brate gets the other half . . . which FACTUALLY equals less OPPORTUNITY.  . . I'm not making the numbers up they are easily searchable. . .🤣

I wonder why you can't accept that brate is a relevant threat on Howards upside?  You truthers are twisting  and squirming and in flat out denial about it. . 🤣

 

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9 hours ago, Flyman75 said:

I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been locked down. You guys have done nothing but argue in circles for 23 pages. 

you should have seen RMJ in the Davante Adams thread last season he was 50% of the anti- davante posts. . . the man is relentless🤣

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