Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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21 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Just a few articles about the player some of you believe Arians is going to ignore. I mean, why would he have any use for a guy like this?...

 

O.J. Howard off to a flying start, standing out as the best tight end in football

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/o-j-howard-off-to-a-flying-start-standing-out-as-the-best-tight-end-in-football

O.J. Howard: How ‘you want to draw up a tight end’

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/03/oj-howard-how-you-want-to-draw-up-a-tight-end.html

O.J. Howard can become the greatest offensive weapon in the NFL

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tampa-bay-buccaneers-oj-howard-greatest-offensive-weapon-nfl/

O.J. Howard is blossoming into an elite tight end

https://thepewterplank.com/2018/11/02/o-j-howard-elite-tight-end/

PFF grades O.J. Howard as second-best tight end in 2018

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/2/21/18232144/pff-grades-buccaneers-o-j-howard-as-second-best-tight-end-in-2018

 

 

 

Nice reads man. Thanks👍

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13 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Just a few articles about the player some of you believe Arians is going to ignore. I mean, why would he have any use for a guy like this?...

 

O.J. Howard off to a flying start, standing out as the best tight end in football

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/o-j-howard-off-to-a-flying-start-standing-out-as-the-best-tight-end-in-football

O.J. Howard: How ‘you want to draw up a tight end’

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/03/oj-howard-how-you-want-to-draw-up-a-tight-end.html

O.J. Howard can become the greatest offensive weapon in the NFL

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tampa-bay-buccaneers-oj-howard-greatest-offensive-weapon-nfl/

O.J. Howard is blossoming into an elite tight end

https://thepewterplank.com/2018/11/02/o-j-howard-elite-tight-end/

PFF grades O.J. Howard as second-best tight end in 2018

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/2/21/18232144/pff-grades-buccaneers-o-j-howard-as-second-best-tight-end-in-2018

 

Lamont bringing the heat!

 

I understand the knock on Arians not featuring the TE. Maybe there is some validity in that. I tend to think OJ Howard is better than anyone Bruce Arians has coached at TE.

 

Some things take a little bit of faith and fortune favors the bold. So, if you are looking for stone cold evidence that Bruce Arians can coach a TE who has a 1,000 yard season with double digits TDs then you will never find it. He has never had that. To that end you will not find a TE not named Ertz or Kelce who has a higher ceiling than OJ Howard does. It's the unknown that makes people a bit wary. Will he get injured again? Will Arians use him more than any TE he has ever had? These are the question marks and they are fair questions to ask. I don't like drafting worrying about injury but OJ has been injured 2 seasons in a row now. 

 

I guess my best advice is to draft OJ based on how you feel about the situation. If you are skeptical of Arians TE useage and OJs health then he probably shouldnt be considered till close to round 10 or more.

 

If you think Arians will break his pattern of TE useage and OJ can stay healthy all season then he would be a pretty nice get anywhere from late 5th round through the 7th.  

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Posted (edited)

I agree with DHC’s post in full - but another factor that’s getting lost in the wash with this Arians talk is what effect Brate will have on his fantasy potential: I tend to think Winston’s fascination with targeting Brate in the end zone will cap Howard’s scoring potential even if Arians tears up his old playbooks and lets his TEs loose.  Brate is also an inferior blocker.

Edited by BMcP

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Thank you for posting - and reposting - these articles.  I honestly don’t think people are questioning his natural athleticism or his pass-catching ability at the moment, though.  They are skeptical that a head coach notorious for not incorporating his TEs into an integral role in the passing game (despite having multiple TEs to work with who were talented receivers) will feature him to the extent that he will be worth selecting with a high draft pick (~5th round) in fantasy football leagues.

 

Is it fair to say that none of his past tight ends were as athletic or as good as receivers as OJ? I mean before David Johnsons great season Bruce arians had only produced three 1000 yards rushers in his NFL OC and HC career. He realized DJ was awesome and utilized him like the stud he was. Is it a fair argument to say he doesnt force players into a system just utilizes what hes got?

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10 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I agree with DHC’s post in full - but another factor that’s getting lost in the wash with this Arians talk is what effect Brate will have on his fantasy potential: I tend to think Winston’s fascination with targeting Brate in the end zone will cap Howard’s scoring potential even if Arians tears up his old playbooks and lets his TEs loose.  Brate is also an inferior blocker.

 

It's an interesting question. 

 

Brate had 6 TDs in 2017 and 2018

 

Howard had 6 TDs in 14 starts in 2017 and had 5 TDs in 8 starts in 2018.

 

Seems like OJ is finding the endzone plenty when healthy but that was also under different coaches.

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3 minutes ago, Stonej14 said:

 

Is it fair to say that none of his past tight ends were as athletic or as good as receivers as OJ? I mean before David Johnsons great season Bruce arians had only produced three 1000 yards rushers in his NFL OC and HC career. He realized DJ was awesome and utilized him like the stud he was. Is it a fair argument to say he doesnt force players into a system just utilizes what hes got?

Yep it’s totally fair to say that none of his former TEs was as good as Howard.  And I would expect him to model the offense to highlight the offense’s strengths, to a degree.  I personally do think he will utilize his TEs as receivers.  But I personally doubt that he will do so to such a degree as to reward owners who drafted him in the fifth round as opposed to other more proven talent in more predictably productive situations.

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8 minutes ago, BMcP said:

I agree with DHC’s post in full - but another factor that’s getting lost in the wash with this Arians talk is what effect Brate will have on his fantasy potential: I tend to think Winston’s fascination with targeting Brate in the end zone will cap Howard’s scoring potential even if Arians tears up his old playbooks and lets his TEs loose.  Brate is also an inferior blocker.

That's a valid concern.  I glanced at their red zone targets from 2018 and Brate caught 8 of 12, 6 of which went for TD's.  OJ Howard caught 5 of 7, 4 of which went for TD's.  Obviously Howard played fewer games, but he was also slightly more efficient.  However, I always prefer the consistency of yardage and I think Howard could get to 1,000 yards. Maybe he only has 6 TD's due to Brate vulturing a few (assuming a full healthy season), but Brate won't harm the yardage (never broke 40 yards in a game all season).  Love that big play ability from a TE.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

It's an interesting question. 

 

Brate had 6 TDs in 2017 and 2018

 

Howard had 6 TDs in 14 starts in 2017 and had 5 TDs in 8 starts in 2018.

 

Seems like OJ is finding the endzone plenty when healthy but that was also under different coaches.

Yes - those coaches got fired 😅

Edited by BMcP

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Brate will steal a bunch of OJ Howard's TDs.  We already know that.  But I think it also fair to mention that Mike Evans is going to sit well atop the target totem pole.  It's not like Kittle last year, when the 49ers had basically no one else, so Kittle got a massive amount of targets.

And we know Bruce Arians loves to design plays where the WR is the primary read.  

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33 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Brate will steal a bunch of OJ Howard's TDs.  We already know that.  But I think it also fair to mention that Mike Evans is going to sit well atop the target totem pole.  It's not like Kittle last year, when the 49ers had basically no one else, so Kittle got a massive amount of targets.

And we know Bruce Arians loves to design plays where the WR is the primary read.  

 

You realize that 180 targets and 9 TD's left town with D-Jax and Adam Humphries, right?

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Posted (edited)

Brate was irrelevant in games OJ was healthy last season. He is a non factor.

This thread is starting to remind me of the Travis Kelce thread from last year, except instead of questioning the QB people are questioning the coach. The situation is simple: TB has a proven great coach and the offense has already proven they can rack up the stats with the best of them. OJ Howard and every viable piece are strong buys. It’s not that complicated, this is an offense you are going to want to be invested in and Evans, Godwin, and Howard are the primary weapons.

Edited by MJJ28
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23 hours ago, BMcP said:

Post that everywhere you can, please.

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Who has Bruce Arians ever had at TE?

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Arians is a smart guy. He obviously really knows his stuff. If OJ Howard has the talent then Arians will get him involved. Only a rat faced dummy would not incorporate Howard into offensive planning. Arians wears a funny hat but he doesn't look like a rat to me.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MJJ28 said:

Brate was irrelevant in games OJ was healthy last season. He is a non factor.

Brate scored TDs in 3 of the 10 games Howard played in last season.

Edited by BMcP

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1 hour ago, RMJ_12 said:

Who has Bruce Arians ever had at TE?

Notables include Heath Miller, Jermaine Gresham, Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen, John Carlson.

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1 hour ago, RMJ_12 said:

Post that everywhere you can, please.

I think I’m good, but you’re more than welcome to.

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Posted (edited)

.

Edited by BMcP

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31 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Notables include Heath Miller, Jermaine Gresham, Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen, John Carlson.

Exactly

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Exactly

I didn’t realize your question was rhetorical.  Forgive me for trying to assist you in improving your football understanding.  If you bothered to read the thread, you would see that the topic of Howard’s athletic superiority was already discussed.

Edited by BMcP

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

I didn’t realize your question was rhetorical.  Forgive me for trying to assist you in improving your football understanding.  If you bothered to read the thread, you would see that the topic of Howard’s athletic superiority was already discussed.

I'm not sure who sh*t in your Frosted Flakes this morning, but my point is and always was that Arians has never had a TE worth being heavily involved in the offense.  There should be no worries about Howard's usage in TB regardless of what PFF thinks.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, RMJ_12 said:

I'm not sure who sh*t in your Frosted Flakes this morning, but my point is and always was that Arians has never had a TE worth being heavily involved in the offense.  There should be no worries about Howard's usage in TB regardless of what PFF thinks.

Don’t eat Frosted Flakes, personally.  I’d just advise you in future to go ahead and state your point at the outset rather than have other people do your research for you.

Edited by BMcP

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Don’t eat Frosted Flakes, personally.  I’d just advise you in future to go ahead and state your point at the outset rather than have other people do your research for you.

I would advise you to not do research and then complain about it.  I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a rhetorical question.

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Just now, RMJ_12 said:

I would advise you to not do research and then complain about it.  I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a rhetorical question.

So advised - have a good evening.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

So advised - have a good evening.

It's morning, but thank you.

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