Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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4 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

The problem is that your posts are all opinion based and involve no statistics or facts, all speculation.

I gave you plenty of stats upthread, namely 10 consecutive years of lame TE production from Bruce Arians-controlled offenses.  But you chose to ignore them.  You seem to fancy yourself some kind of stat-master, but most of the numbers you have thrown out in this thread have been factually incorrect, or flashy yet misleading.

It's not a concern for me.  I dealt with a lot more offensive and insulting comments for my "baseless opinions" last year in the Le'Veon Bell thread.  In the end, my predictions were spot on, and my detractors all slunk away.

"Top 6 production through ten weeks" is such meaningless garbage.  Was Howard a difference maker at TE in 2018?  Not in my format.  Will he be in 2019?  I don't believe he will be.  Wrong system, wrong teammates, and wrong quarterback to be ripe for a breakout.

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1 hour ago, RMJ_12 said:

https://www.rotoworld.com/video/nfl/breakout-players-howard

 

Kind of funny how the points he makes are eerily similar to mine.  That is all.

Ah, Rich Hribar.  I have pretty much always done the opposite of what he recommended, and it has worked out quite well for me.

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21 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

You seem to fancy yourself some kind of stat-master, but most of the numbers you have thrown out in this thread have been factually incorrect, or flashy yet misleading.

Which one was factually incorrect? 

 

That fact that Howard leads the league in yards per target AND yards per reception 2 years in a row?  The fact that the Buccaneers have 234 vacant targets from last season?

 

26 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Wrong system, wrong teammates, and wrong quarterback to be ripe for a breakout.

The Arians system garbage is getting old.

 

Should we review the TE production in Andy Reid's system before Travis Kelce?  What about the TE production in Sean Payton's system before and after Jimmy Graham?  Belichick before Gronk and Hernandez?  Coaches target players not positions.  Time to finally learn something in a thread for once.

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Notable Schedules:

Mike Evans/Chris Godwin/O.J. Howard (TB) 

The Buccaneers have a solid core of receivers and they are treated to one of the lightest schedules in the NFL. Half of their games face the softer venues of 2018  and none until Week 13. The tone is set for the season with the first six games including the 49ers, Panthers (twice), Rams, and Saints.

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1 hour ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Notable Schedules:

Mike Evans/Chris Godwin/O.J. Howard (TB) 

The Buccaneers have a solid core of receivers and they are treated to one of the lightest schedules in the NFL. Half of their games face the softer venues of 2018  and none until Week 13. The tone is set for the season with the first six games including the 49ers, Panthers (twice), Rams, and Saints.

I'm not a big believer in SOS as a tool for the draft. Or during the season even. I think it accounts for 5%-10% of variation at best.

With that said, most of the teams mentioned were hardly pushovers in 2018, with the 49ers 11 and the Rams 14 in passing yards allowed. 

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The Rams?  The team that stifled New England in the Superbowl and limited them to an incredibly low 13 points?

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12 hours ago, RMJ_12 said:

Which one was factually incorrect? 

That Howard has a 6th round ADP.

 

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1 minute ago, SharkSwimmer said:

That Howard has a 6th round ADP.

 

😂 yeah 5.12 is so much different

 

He is 6th round in .5 ppr(the only format that really makes sense)

 

Howard's ADP seems to be climbing in the past couple months, I wonder why?  🤔

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Because Howard is getting overhyped by unreconstructed extrapolators like yourself, and Spring OTA puff pieces.  Very glad I am able to sift through all the noise.

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10 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Because Howard is getting overhyped by unreconstructed extrapolators like yourself, and Spring OTA puff pieces.  Very glad I am able to sift through all the noise.

So instead of extrapolating stats or using averages, you're set on just using the argument "Howard only had 34/565/5 last year, that's terrible"

 

Good luck with that.

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Posted (edited)

Fine.

pass on oj and get the likes of Rudolph, vance(who I like alot🤫) delanie, Jets te, yea I cant even think of others at this time. Bruce hasn’t had a weapon like oj,for the he doesn’t use te nonsense to fly. If you count heath miller, that’s on you. Point is upside. Oj dripping with it.

Edited by Whitecloud0101

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I would love to draft him, but he's going to go higher than the capital I'm willing to pay. I have him as the clear #4 though.

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6 minutes ago, Blu Exile said:

I would love to draft him, but he's going to go higher than the capital I'm willing to pay. I have him as the clear #4 though.

 

He is DND for you in round 5? Would you rather go WR3 there?

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Takeaways from Bucs OTAs: Days 8 & 9

Wednesday

“Tight end O.J. Howard can catch underneath, O.J. can catch and then use his feet. O.J. Howard catches here, O.J. Howard catches there. O.J. Howard catches everywhere. Howard looks back to his incredible pass catching self after having to cut his season short last year due to injury. The offense used him all over the field Wednesday. He made a couple great catches in situational drills where the Bucs needed to move down the field quickly. He was a reliable target to get chunk yardage when it mattered and looks poised to continue to be that guy as the season approaches.”

Thursday

-O.J. Howard had a great, toe-drag diving catch on the sideline after not giving up on a play. The team was in the red zone and as the quarterback was ‘flushed’ out of the pocket and forced to scramble, Howard was able to cut and juke his way to some separation to make the grab. If a guy his size has that skill set, good luck to any defender trying to get in his way.

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/takeaways-from-bucs-otas-day-8-9

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24 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Takeaways from Bucs OTAs: Days 8 & 9

Wednesday

“Tight end O.J. Howard can catch underneath, O.J. can catch and then use his feet. O.J. Howard catches here, O.J. Howard catches there. O.J. Howard catches everywhere. Howard looks back to his incredible pass catching self after having to cut his season short last year due to injury. The offense used him all over the field Wednesday. He made a couple great catches in situational drills where the Bucs needed to move down the field quickly. He was a reliable target to get chunk yardage when it mattered and looks poised to continue to be that guy as the season approaches.”

Thursday

-O.J. Howard had a great, toe-drag diving catch on the sideline after not giving up on a play. The team was in the red zone and as the quarterback was ‘flushed’ out of the pocket and forced to scramble, Howard was able to cut and juke his way to some separation to make the grab. If a guy his size has that skill set, good luck to any defender trying to get in his way.

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/takeaways-from-bucs-otas-day-8-9

 

Any blocking updates? 😂

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1 hour ago, MJJ28 said:

 

Any blocking updates? 😂

Where are all the Jameis Winston to Cameron Brate updates?

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• Last week’s addition of Jordan Leggett creates a roster crunch at tight end. Once Cameron Brate returns, Leggett will compete with Antony Auclair for third-team reps behind O.J. Howard and Brate. Arians said he will likely carry four tight ends, but only if that fourth player is an asset on special teams.

 

 

Currently bucs have 6 te's on the roster, I will not be shocked if we see  Brate trade chatter pickup between now and week 1

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8 minutes ago, dashoe said:

• Last week’s addition of Jordan Leggett creates a roster crunch at tight end. Once Cameron Brate returns, Leggett will compete with Antony Auclair for third-team reps behind O.J. Howard and Brate. Arians said he will likely carry four tight ends, but only if that fourth player is an asset on special teams.

 

 

Currently bucs have 6 te's on the roster, I will not be shocked if we see  Brate trade chatter pickup between now and week 1

 

Brate’s not getting traded. TB has zero skill position depth outside of the big 3 and his cap hit is too big to deal.

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13 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Takeaways from Bucs OTAs: Days 8 & 9

Wednesday

“Tight end O.J. Howard can catch underneath, O.J. can catch and then use his feet. O.J. Howard catches here, O.J. Howard catches there. O.J. Howard catches everywhere. Howard looks back to his incredible pass catching self after having to cut his season short last year due to injury. The offense used him all over the field Wednesday. He made a couple great catches in situational drills where the Bucs needed to move down the field quickly. He was a reliable target to get chunk yardage when it mattered and looks poised to continue to be that guy as the season approaches.”

Thursday

-O.J. Howard had a great, toe-drag diving catch on the sideline after not giving up on a play. The team was in the red zone and as the quarterback was ‘flushed’ out of the pocket and forced to scramble, Howard was able to cut and juke his way to some separation to make the grab. If a guy his size has that skill set, good luck to any defender trying to get in his way.

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/takeaways-from-bucs-otas-day-8-9

I don't put much stock in the puff, but my takeaway is that OJ Howard is currently healthy.  That's good to know.

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3 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't put much stock in the puff, but my takeaway is that OJ Howard is currently healthy.  That's good to know.

 

And is lining up all over the formation.

 

Which you can expect to see a lot of in the regular season.

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19 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't put much stock in the puff, but my takeaway is that OJ Howard is currently healthy.  That's good to know.

Your negative take on OJ’s 2019 fantasy outlook has been based on “10 years of Arians TE usage”. Here we have a report from camp talking about OJ already being used as a receiver all over the field and looking great doing so.

Rather than dismiss it as a “puff piece”, maybe you should start considering the possibility that Arians does indeed have bigger plans for his highly talented TE than you initially thought. I understand it’s just one report from May, but we’ll be hearing more and more reports just like this all offseason. At some point you have to be able to differentiate “puff pieces” from reality, and adjust your projections accordingly. The sooner you get on the bus the longer you can enjoy the ride.

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11 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

Your negative take on OJ’s 2019 fantasy outlook has been based on “10 years of Arians TE usage”. Here we have a report from camp talking about OJ already being used as a receiver all over the field and looking great doing so.

Rather than dismiss it as a “puff piece”, maybe you should start considering the possibility that Arians does indeed have bigger plans for his highly talented TE than you initially thought. I understand it’s just one report from May, but we’ll be hearing more and more reports just like this all offseason. At some point you have to be able to differentiate “puff pieces” from reality, and adjust your projections accordingly. The sooner you get on the bus the longer you can enjoy the ride.

I may come around on OJ Howard, but I have been burned by offseason hype of a player so many times before.  The comparison that really stands out is Davante Parker.  Dude really should have been one of the best WR in the league but it just has never happened for him.  It's always one thing or another.  So far, Howard has been that way, too.

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2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

So far, Howard has been that way, too.

No he hasn't.  He was top 5 at his position before getting hurt last season.  He's only been in the league 2 years at a position that takes time to progress.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I may come around on OJ Howard, but I have been burned by offseason hype of a player so many times before.  The comparison that really stands out is Davante Parker.  Dude really should have been one of the best WR in the league but it just has never happened for him.  It's always one thing or another.  So far, Howard has been that way, too.

I applaud your open mindedness on potentially coming around on OJ, and I get being burned by offseason hype (I’m looking at you CJ Spiller). But as RMJ said, the Devante Parker comp seems harsh.

Edited by Lamont Sanford

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