Flyman75

O.J. Howard 2019 Outlook

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14 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Mainly due to people just endlessly repeating themselves.  I got off the bus about 20 pages ago because there simply wasn’t anything new being added.

 

Glad to have you back.

 

Did you see the video from the link above? Nice TD catch by Howard on a quick release throw by Winston.

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14 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Glad to have you back.

 

Did you see the video from the link above? Nice TD catch by Howard on a quick release throw by Winston.

Why thank you, DHB!  Glad to be back!

Yes, thank you for posting it.

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17 hours ago, BMcP said:

Why thank you, DHB!  Glad to be back!

DerrickHenryBoots?

Is that a reference to Henry having his foot in a cast? ;)

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Thinking more about this dude who seems to be the consensus TE4. Yes, he’s athletic. Yes, he’s got a huge average depth of target and can stretch the field. But I’m still having a hard time reconciling the fact that tight ends are never really utilized in a Bruce Arians offense. Why is there so much faith that all of a sudden things will change? Yes, they will pass a ton. And arguments I’ve seen are “Arians has never had an athlete at the position like Howard” and “Jameis loves throwing to his tight ends”. But is that enough? Wouldn’t Henry be safer as we know Phil does throw in the RZ to the tight end and it’s the same offense? Or Engram who is the de facto #1?

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1 hour ago, CooL said:

 arguments I’ve seen are “Arians has never had an athlete at the position like Howard” and “Jameis loves throwing to his tight ends”. But is that enough? 

Yes. The whole "this coach/QB (whatever) never does blah" is SO overblown if not an outright total fallacy. Arians didn't use TEs much because he didn't have a good one. Rivers "loved his TEs" because his TE was one of the best ever. I'm not as high on Howard as some, but it has nothing to do with Arians. In fact that's a good reason to like Howard, because Arians is a good coach who should get the most possible out of this offense. I can see why some are big on Howard 

 

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I love the recent Evan Engram hype, I think it helps OJ Howard in terms of falling a bit in drafts.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CooL said:

Thinking more about this dude who seems to be the consensus TE4. Yes, he’s athletic. Yes, he’s got a huge average depth of target and can stretch the field. But I’m still having a hard time reconciling the fact that tight ends are never really utilized in a Bruce Arians offense. Why is there so much faith that all of a sudden things will change? Yes, they will pass a ton. And arguments I’ve seen are “Arians has never had an athlete at the position like Howard” and “Jameis loves throwing to his tight ends”. But is that enough? Wouldn’t Henry be safer as we know Phil does throw in the RZ to the tight end and it’s the same offense? Or Engram who is the de facto #1?

You don’t target positions, you target players.

 

Check how much the Tight End was utilized in Bill Belichick’s offense before Gronk, Andy Reid’s offense before Kelce, Sean Payton’s offense before AND after Jimmy Graham, Kyle Shanahan’s offense before last year with Kittle.  I’m not sure why this continues to be a discussion.  If you have talent, you use it.

Edited by RMJ_12
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This blurb is not about Howard, but...

Coach Bruce Arians singled out RB Dare Ogunbowale as a player who is having a "fantastic" training camp.

"[He’s] got really good vision [and] good blitz pick-up. He’s really impressing us," Arians continued. This backfield is far from settled. Most of the talk has centered around Peyton Barber and Ronald Jones, but earning praise from Arians is a nice notch in Ogunboawale's belt, especially getting praised for his blitz pickups. Being able to step up and protect the quarterback is a quick way to earn the trust of coaches and see playing time. Ogunbowale (5'11/205) played his college ball at Wisconsin. He has zero NFL carries as he enters Year 3.

I paste here additional offseason puffery from Arians regarding an unknown 3rd string running back.  For context.

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8 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

This blurb is not about Howard, but...

Coach Bruce Arians singled out RB Dare Ogunbowale as a player who is having a "fantastic" training camp.

"[He’s] got really good vision [and] good blitz pick-up. He’s really impressing us," Arians continued. This backfield is far from settled. Most of the talk has centered around Peyton Barber and Ronald Jones, but earning praise from Arians is a nice notch in Ogunboawale's belt, especially getting praised for his blitz pickups. Being able to step up and protect the quarterback is a quick way to earn the trust of coaches and see playing time. Ogunbowale (5'11/205) played his college ball at Wisconsin. He has zero NFL carries as he enters Year 3.

I paste here additional offseason puffery from Arians regarding an unknown 3rd string running back.  For context.

Troubling, indeed....said no OJ Howard owner anywhere.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

This blurb is not about Howard, but...

Coach Bruce Arians singled out RB Dare Ogunbowale as a player who is having a "fantastic" training camp.

"[He’s] got really good vision [and] good blitz pick-up. He’s really impressing us," Arians continued. This backfield is far from settled. Most of the talk has centered around Peyton Barber and Ronald Jones, but earning praise from Arians is a nice notch in Ogunboawale's belt, especially getting praised for his blitz pickups. Being able to step up and protect the quarterback is a quick way to earn the trust of coaches and see playing time. Ogunbowale (5'11/205) played his college ball at Wisconsin. He has zero NFL carries as he enters Year 3.

I paste here additional offseason puffery from Arians regarding an unknown 3rd string running back.  For context.

 

Peyton Barber and Jones are garbage so there is a non-zero chance that this coach speak actually means something.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

This blurb is not about Howard, but...

Coach Bruce Arians singled out RB Dare Ogunbowale as a player who is having a "fantastic" training camp.

"[He’s] got really good vision [and] good blitz pick-up. He’s really impressing us," Arians continued. This backfield is far from settled. Most of the talk has centered around Peyton Barber and Ronald Jones, but earning praise from Arians is a nice notch in Ogunboawale's belt, especially getting praised for his blitz pickups. Being able to step up and protect the quarterback is a quick way to earn the trust of coaches and see playing time. Ogunbowale (5'11/205) played his college ball at Wisconsin. He has zero NFL carries as he enters Year 3.

I paste here additional offseason puffery from Arians regarding an unknown 3rd string running back.  For context.

 

Alright, I’ll bite. What does this have to do with Howard?

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45 minutes ago, Flyman75 said:

 

Alright, I’ll bite. What does this have to do with Howard?

Isn’t it obvious? Howard is clearly behind Ogunbowale on the RB depth chart.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

This blurb is not about Howard, but...

Coach Bruce Arians singled out RB Dare Ogunbowale as a player who is having a "fantastic" training camp.

"[He’s] got really good vision [and] good blitz pick-up. He’s really impressing us," Arians continued. This backfield is far from settled. Most of the talk has centered around Peyton Barber and Ronald Jones, but earning praise from Arians is a nice notch in Ogunboawale's belt, especially getting praised for his blitz pickups. Being able to step up and protect the quarterback is a quick way to earn the trust of coaches and see playing time. Ogunbowale (5'11/205) played his college ball at Wisconsin. He has zero NFL carries as he enters Year 3.

I paste here additional offseason puffery from Arians regarding an unknown 3rd string running back.  For context.

Bring this to the Ronald Jones thread, they’ll love it

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2 hours ago, Flyman75 said:

 

Alright, I’ll bite. What does this have to do with Howard?

They're on the same team. duh!

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1)  I like sticking branches into hornet's nests;

2)  Many OJ Howard truthers in this thread have relied on Arians quotes to prop up their argument that Arians will abandon his decade plus neglect of TEs-as-receivers.  Well here's another glowing report about a player we are very unlikely to hear from this season.

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

1)  I like sticking branches into hornet's nests;

2)  Many OJ Howard truthers in this thread have relied on Arians quotes to prop up their argument that Arians will abandon his decade plus neglect of TEs-as-receivers.  Well here's another glowing report about a player we are very unlikely to hear from this season.

 

I'd listen when arians speaks if I were you. He has plucked many fantasy relevant guys from obscurity

That being said your comparison makes no sense. Oj is not a player you "are very unlikely to hear from again" 

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On 8/2/2019 at 7:12 PM, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

I'd listen when arians speaks if I were you. He has plucked many fantasy relevant guys from obscurity

That being said your comparison makes no sense. Oj is not a player you "are very unlikely to hear from again" 

I listened when Arians went on and on about how Andre Ellington was gonna get 25-30 touches per game in 2014 and I scooped him up everywhere and I failed, everywhere. Ever since then I’ve taken what Arians has said with a grain of salt (Ellington was not the last player he would endlessly overhype). Arians and Carroll are cut from the same cloth in waxing poetic about their guys.

That said, I don’t think anything Arians says about Howard this offseason really matters one way or the other, I expect him to be a major part of the offense no matter what.

I’m more concerned by Cameron Brate, the thorn in the side of Howard the past couple of years (trust me, as a Howard dynasty owner I am an official card-carrying member of the WTFBrateAgain!? club. Winston loves him, they pay him a lot, and anyone who just thinks Brate is simply an insignificant afterthought against Howard’s talent, I present to you the past two seasons. It’s been tough to watch. I still think Howard is far and away the TE1 but Brate is more of a TE1a than a 2 - or at least he has been - and that takes away from Howard.

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10 minutes ago, Fierylady said:

I listened when Arians went on and on about how Andre Ellington was gonna get 25-30 touches per game in 2014 and I scooped him up everywhere and I failed, everywhere. Ever since then I’ve taken what Arians has said with a grain of salt (Ellington was not the last player he would endlessly overhype). Arians and Carroll are cut from the same cloth in waxing poetic about their guys.

That said, I don’t think anything Arians says about Howard this offseason really matters one way or the other, I expect him to be a major part of the offense no matter what.

I’m more concerned by Cameron Brate, the thorn in the side of Howard the past couple of years (trust me, as a Howard dynasty owner I am an official card-carrying member of the WTFBrateAgain!? club. Winston loves him, they pay him a lot, and anyone who just thinks Brate is simply an insignificant afterthought against Howard’s talent, I present to you the past two seasons. It’s been tough to watch. I still think Howard is far and away the TE1 but Brate is more of a TE1a than a 2 - or at least he has been - and that takes away from Howard.

Agreed, I've had Howard in dynasty as well and Brate continually finds ways to frustrate me

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Smart posts - couldn’t agree more

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On 8/6/2019 at 11:53 AM, Fierylady said:

I’m more concerned by Cameron Brate, the thorn in the side of Howard the past couple of years (trust me, as a Howard dynasty owner I am an official card-carrying member of the WTFBrateAgain!? club. Winston loves him, they pay him a lot, and anyone who just thinks Brate is simply an insignificant afterthought against Howard’s talent, I present to you the past two seasons. It’s been tough to watch. I still think Howard is far and away the TE1 but Brate is more of a TE1a than a 2 - or at least he has been - and that takes away from Howard.

 

 

Brate being on the field when Howard is on the field doesn’t take anything away from Howard.  It takes away from the WR that was taken off the field in place of Brate.  Why do people still not get this?

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3 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

 

 

Brate being on the field when Howard is on the field doesn’t take anything away from Howard.  It takes away from the WR that was taken off the field in place of Brate.  Why do people still not get this?

Because it hasn’t been historically true, Winston has targeted Brate over Howard. We’re hoping (and assuming) it’s true this year which is why we’re drafting him high (me too), but as a Howard owner in dynasty, the number of times Winston straight up targeted Brate first - especially near the goal line - was obvious and frustrating af. Yeah, the receiver who came out got obviously got shafted too, but so did Howard plenty.

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2 minutes ago, Fierylady said:

Because it hasn’t been historically true, Winston has targeted Brate over Howard. We’re hoping (and assuming) it’s true this year which is why we’re drafting him high (me too), but as a Howard owner in dynasty, the number of times Winston straight up targeted Brate first - especially near the goal line - was obvious and frustrating af. Yeah, the receiver who came out got obviously got shafted too, but so did Howard plenty.

Just because a different TE is targeted when Howard is on the field doesn’t mean that target should have been Howard’s.  The only way he could “take away” from Howard is if Howard was taken off the field in place of Brate.  Brate’s production will probably be taken away from a 3rd WR.

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Winston a little slow kinda like cam refusing to dump it off to his rbs. sooner or later Winston will realize oj is a superior talent and target him. personally have zero concern with brate

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16 minutes ago, RMJ_12 said:

Just because a different TE is targeted when Howard is on the field doesn’t mean that target should have been Howard’s.  The only way he could “take away” from Howard is if Howard was taken off the field in place of Brate.  Brate’s production will probably be taken away from a 3rd WR.

While this is technically correct, it’s disingenuous to a fantasy argument. Target share is an exceedingly relevant fantasy stat, everyone on the field has to share targets, the higher targeted guys are the better performing fantasy players, generally. Winston likes (or has liked, anyway) to target Brate in the short to intermediate areas where Howard would/has/will also thrive. If Howard gains those targets as we all hope, we’re golden. But Brate has already come through for him before and we know he trusts him so he can’t be utterly discounted as a hurdle to Howard’s success.

Why else do you think Ertz is going as TE3 despite setting NFL records at TE for receptions and targets and briefly, for yardage (until Kittle broke it)? Competition for targets, especially from another TE Goedert.

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