PizzaBeerFF

Superbowl LIII: Patriots v Rams

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58 minutes ago, PizzaBeerFF said:

You tell me. All I know is there is a chip on Pats shoulders this season. 

Who’s Pat

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3 hours ago, psygolf said:

Who’s Pat

 

Here are the stars of the show...Pat Sajak and Vanna White! 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ginocan said:

 

Here are the stars of the show...Pat Sajak and Vanna White! 

 

 

BB drives the show, Brady turns the letters...sounds about right.

Edited by psygolf

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17 hours ago, fletch44 said:

"You don't need defensive signals to read a defense. Hell, Tony Romo knows what's coming half the time you don't think the GOAT knows?"

 

Formation or alignment & signals aren't the same. Disguises, tweaks, coverage techniques, routes, gap responsibilities & blocking schemes become known post-snap but knowing them on the pre-snap is an extreme advantage. With respect to the game play, there are two I think were big for New England near the end of the 1st half. Out of a multi-WR set, they were 3rd & 4 on their own 28 yd Line with a little more than a minute remaining. Including their CBs on the wing KC had 9 defenders within 3 yds of the LOS. The Patriots run Hogan across in motion, leaving just the slot rec'r to the play side. They run a pick play, the decoy slot WR (Dorset) does a poor job of selling his route but effectively screens the inside DB (Sorensen) from covering James White on a wheel route behind it. They converted the 1st down but with a better throw White would've gotten a lot more.

 

Analysis: The Patriots knew KC was in man coverage & perhaps also that the two DBs wouldn't switch cover responsibilities. We'll never know because the Chiefs defenders didn't even recognize the pick. Dorset ended up occupying both defenders, which opened the outside to White. Again, if Brady leads White, he catches this ball in stride, he likely scores! We can agree that all of that could've been attained via the Patriots film study. But beyond this, we have no choice but to assume. White is flanked to the play side on the pre-snap. The Patriots assumed that the same side of the  Chiefs defense wasn't going to aggressively fire off the snap toward White. Or a run dog (LB blitz) aimed at White. Or that KC wouldn't have anticipated the pick play, something New England frequently does run. They assumed the alignment KC was showing wasn't a disguise. That's a lot of guessing... or knowing. We can agree further that if they are guessing as often as everybody else, they sure guess right an awful lot of the time. 

 

I'll break down the 1st & 10 play right after this one in a subsequent post. 

 

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Unbelievable that some still try to portray the Patriots as always cheating.

 

I didn't root for Derek Jeter because I'm a Red Sox fan and he was a rival. But I am able to respect, admire and appreciate greatness without trying to tear it down to make sense of it in my own mind.

 

Extremely disappointing and annoying that Patriots fans can't talk to opposing fans about the game without having to listen to this crap. It's part of the reason the Patriots fan base has adopted the "us against the world mentality." Fans of other teams that are able to talk about the Patriots without ONLY talking about this crap are few and far between. I currently live in Atlanta and many of my close friends are Falcons fans but I admire their ability to talk football without being envious and having nothing to say about the Patriots except the "omg they always cheat blah blah."

 

Can't we just move on and talk about the game in the subject line rather than how much someone thinks the Patriots are "cheaters" because they win a lot?

Edited by ThreadKiller
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52 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

"Extremely disappointing and annoying that Patriots fans can't talk to opposing fans about the game without having to listen to this crap. ... Can't we just move on and talk about the game in the subject line rather than how much someone thinks the Patriots are "cheaters" because they win a lot?"

 

No one is preventing you from having your conversation or forcing you to "listen" to anything... Your premise that there isn't any evidence, just some haters who believe the Patriots cheat because they win a lot, is blatantly false or a lie. Given that the truth is so glaringly obvious, why are you resorting to such? You could've instead said; no, Tom Brady makes a lot of pre-snap reads & has them in the right play. That's right, but he's not the only QB who has the playbook at his disposal. But that's not what's going on every time or even most of the time. And when he does opt out, how does he know the defense isn't disguising what they're taking away, or perhaps with any given look they're aware of what he'll audible to? And, as another member has already alluded to, the same thing is often happening on the defensive side of the ball. How they cheated resulted in them often being in the right play. All that's been said, the only thing that is confirmed, is that they're still often in the right play.    

Edited by markrc99
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2 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

No one is preventing you from having your conversation or forcing you to "listen" to anything... Your premise that there isn't any evidence, just some haters who believe the Patriots cheat because they win a lot, is blatantly false or a lie. Given that the truth is so glaringly obvious, why are you resorting to such? You could've instead said; no, Tom Brady makes a lot of pre-snap reads & has them in the right play. That's right, but he's not the only QB who has the playbook at his disposal. But that's not what's going on every time or even most of the time. And when he does opt out, how does he know the defense isn't disguising what they're taking away, or perhaps with any given look they're aware of what he'll audible to? And, as another member has already alluded to, the same thing is often happening on the defensive side of the ball. How they cheated resulted in them often being in the right play. All that's been said, the only thing that is confirmed, is that they're still often in the right play.    

 

 

Haha.

 

The "examples" you illustrate are just pointing out plays that worked and you're saying because they worked, they must be cheating.

 

The truth is glaringly obvious What? You mean that they "cheated" against KC as the example you tried to point out shows? No. Claiming a good play worked so it must be "cheating" is NOT evidence despite what you might think.

 

And you're right. No one is preventing me from having a conversation with fellow Patriots fans. That's the point. People like you only want to talk about made up conspiracy theories and talk about "cheating" all the time. That's not disputable.

 

Just stop.

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11 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

Your premise that there isn't any evidence, just some haters who believe the Patriots cheat because they win a lot, is blatantly false or a lie.   

 

No. It's reality based on your "examples" that they cheat because they were in the right play. You think they cheat because they are in the right play a lot. There's no evidence to that point and it's you being a conspiracy theorist while hating on them because they are successful too much for it to not be considering cheating (in your opinion).

 

So yes, you seem to be a hater who believes the Patriots cheat because they win a lot. That's the bottom line.

Edited by ThreadKiller

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1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

Extremely disappointing and annoying that Patriots fans can't talk to opposing fans about the game without having to listen to this crap.

 

Poor Patriots fans.

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6 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

 

Poor Patriots fans.

 

What is the point of this comment?

 

Are you interested in talking football or picking fights with strangers over the internet? Serious question.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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46 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

No. It's reality based on your "examples" that they cheat because they were in the right play. You think they cheat because they are in the right play a lot. There's no evidence to that point and it's you being a conspiracy theorist while hating on them because they are successful too much for it to not be considering cheating (in your opinion).

 

So yes, you seem to be a hater who believes the Patriots cheat because they win a lot. That's the bottom line.

It's not that the Pats are in the right play so often.  They are in the right play, against the right specific coverage, blitz, stunt, zone, two-deep, switch, almost every play.  And for a team that has previously been fined millions and docked a 1st round draft pick for illegally videotaping opposing defensive signals, it smells more like they have somehow acquired their opponent's actual defensive signals as opposed to just working hard and studying the tendencies and guessing right 90% of the time.

 

Philly knew what they were last year, and so they did a fake walk-through and probably a lot of other things to throw BB off the scent.  The Philly Special was something they had never once ran in a game.  And I think Phillips is wise to them, as well.  He's one of the few defensive minds with a decent track record of success against this team.  So I hope the Rams are just as paranoid and secretive this year with their game plan as the Eagles were last year.

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14 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

It's not that the Pats are in the right play so often.  They are in the right play, against the right specific coverage, blitz, stunt, zone, two-deep, switch, almost every play.  And for a team that has previously been fined millions and docked a 1st round draft pick for illegally videotaping opposing defensive signals, it smells more like they have somehow acquired their opponent's actual defensive signals as opposed to just working hard and studying the tendencies and guessing right 90% of the time.

 

Philly knew what they were last year, and so they did a fake walk-through and probably a lot of other things to throw BB off the scent.  The Philly Special was something they had never once ran in a game.  And I think Phillips is wise to them, as well.  He's one of the few defensive minds with a decent track record of success against this team.  So I hope the Rams are just as paranoid and secretive this year with their game plan as the Eagles were last year.

 

Yet Brady still threw for 500 yds and the offense did whatever they wanted. I guess they must have "cheated" though, right? Hahaha. Even though those numbers directly dispute your claim that Philly successfully "threw them off the scent." From now on, whenever I see the Patriots have success on offense, I guess the fair conclusion would be that they must be "cheating" since that's the only way to succeed.

 

Didn't Peyton Manning get his offense into the right situations too presnap? I guess he cheated too then, huh?

 

This is stupid .Can we just move on already?

Edited by ThreadKiller

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Imagine the NFL landscape if fan bases other than the Patriots worried about the success of their team more than they worry about what they do in New England.

 

How wild would that be?!

 

Funny how it's obvious in here who hates the Patriots, but it would be difficult to tell you what team those haters root for. I guess some would rather hate on the Patriots than root for their own team.

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ThreadKiller, homie, it's all good man. This is what I was alluding to earlier, it's a non-productive circular conversation.. Pats fans are gonna be Pats fans regardless and the "Cheatriots" folks are gonna complain no matter what.. neither side is going to convince each other differently, it's just how it is. If you like the Patriots that's great because they're playing in the Super Bowl (again), if you don't like the Patriots (which is fine, not everyone has to) then better luck next year. 

 

I mean we got cats out here describing football 101 saying there is something fishy going on lol.. Like Philly won last year, congrats, but they still gave up 505 yards of passing to Brady despite having "fake walkthroughs" and all that jazz.. pretty good.

 

Got a feeling if you're trying to have a decent conversation about the actual game that this isn't the place, you can literally say "sure whatever, the Patriots were involved in controversy, I acknowledge that and don't care" and the next person in the thread is going to replay with "YEAH WELLTHE PATRIOTS CHEATED!!!!". It is kind of amusing though.

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Let’s see how the Patriots defense holds up against a team that runs more from 11 than any other 

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9 minutes ago, MoonBlaster said:

ThreadKiller, homie, it's all good man. This is what I was alluding to earlier, it's a non-productive circular conversation.. Pats fans are gonna be Pats fans regardless and the "Cheatriots" folks are gonna complain no matter what.. neither side is going to convince each other differently, it's just how it is. If you like the Patriots that's great because they're playing in the Super Bowl (again), if you don't like the Patriots (which is fine, not everyone has to) then better luck next year. 

 

I mean we got cats out here describing football 101 saying there is something fishy going on lol.. Like Philly won last year, congrats, but they still gave up 505 yards of passing to Brady despite having "fake walkthroughs" and all that jazz.. pretty good.

 

Got a feeling if you're trying to have a decent conversation about the actual game that this isn't the place, you can literally say "sure whatever, the Patriots were involved in controversy, I acknowledge that and don't care" and the next person in the thread is going to replay with "YEAH WELLTHE PATRIOTS CHEATED!!!!". It is kind of amusing though.

 

Touche sir, touche.

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No, No, No, don't stop. I want to hear this out. As a Pats fan, I love this stuff. You guys are adorable. 

 

How do the Pats get the other team's playbook every week and how do they know the signals ? And what if the other team does something radical like change their signals ? Do they know when they change signals too ? Also it's amazing they have been able to get away with this for so long since there are hundreds of former Patriot players/coaches now employed by other teams who would have to know about this. Maybe they are moles ?

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2 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

No one is preventing you from having your conversation or forcing you to "listen" to anything... Your premise that there isn't any evidence, just some haters who believe the Patriots cheat because they win a lot, is blatantly false or a lie. Given that the truth is so glaringly obvious, why are you resorting to such? You could've instead said; no, Tom Brady makes a lot of pre-snap reads & has them in the right play. That's right, but he's not the only QB who has the playbook at his disposal. But that's not what's going on every time or even most of the time. And when he does opt out, how does he know the defense isn't disguising what they're taking away, or perhaps with any given look they're aware of what he'll audible to? And, as another member has already alluded to, the same thing is often happening on the defensive side of the ball. How they cheated resulted in them often being in the right play. All that's been said, the only thing that is confirmed, is that they're still often in the right play.    

Every post from you is magnificently spun into a perfectly round ball. You have the perfect answer to everything. Do you honestly believe the Patriots cheat? The way you write your fantasy dream little tale the Patriots cheat on every play. If so the Patriots would be undefeated every year they would never lost a game. Can you explain why the Patriots lost to the Titans, Lions & the Jags since they know everyplay and where to be oneveryplay?  

 

I just figured it all out —- Roger Goodell makes everyteam ghand their playbook to the Patriots after all him and Robert Kraft are best buds. 

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12 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

No, No, No, don't stop. I want to hear this out. As a Pats fan, I love this stuff. You guys are adorable. 

 

How do the Pats get the other team's playbook every week and how do they know the signals ? And what if the other team does something radical like change their signals ? Do they know when they change signals too ? Also it's amazing they have been able to get away with this for so long since there are hundreds of former Patriot players/coaches now employed by other teams who would have to know about this. Maybe they are moles ?

 

Duh! It's because whenever they convert a 3rd and 10, it means they were cheating and knew what they were doing! It's obvious, clear evidence!

 

Hahahaha.

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14 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

No, No, No, don't stop. I want to hear this out. As a Pats fan, I love this stuff. You guys are adorable. 

 

How do the Pats get the other team's playbook every week and how do they know the signals ? And what if the other team does something radical like change their signals ? Do they know when they change signals too ? Also it's amazing they have been able to get away with this for so long since there are hundreds of former Patriot players/coaches now employed by other teams who would have to know about this. Maybe they are moles ?

 

What I find amusing is that you can just go on Twitter and Youtube and watch Brian Baldinger or Bill Belichick himself break down how some of these pre-snap reads work in very logical and sensible football terms. 

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5 minutes ago, fletch44 said:

No, No, No, don't stop. I want to hear this out. As a Pats fan, I love this stuff. You guys are adorable. 

 

How do the Pats get the other team's playbook every week and how do they know the signals ? And what if the other team does something radical like change their signals ? Do they know when they change signals too ? Also it's amazing they have been able to get away with this for so long since there are hundreds of former Patriot players/coaches now employed by other teams who would have to know about this. Maybe they are moles ?

 

It's kind of like the PED topic in the sense that, well, only a handful of guys get caught and so many others do it without getting caught.

 

And just because you cheat (or use PED's), doesn't mean you're not the best. How many guys used PED's and didn't even get past high school baseball?  Barry Bonds is the Pats in this analogy. You're always going to have people that despise Bonds and don't give him the credit he deserves after being caught cheating.

 

I'm not a Pats fan, but I'm not like a hardcore hater either. I'm kind of like a lot of folks that would rather have seen "new blood" in the SB, that's all.

 

But I respect the heck out of what that dynasty has achieved, regardless of the scandals they've been involved in. It's really really hard to be that good for just one year, let alone many many years.

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Patriots fans:  "Why can't we just talk about how great the Patriots are and just ignore their cheating?  Sob!"

 

Reasonable observers of the game of football:  "Overwhelming evidence shows that the Patriots are so successful because they cheat."

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