Iron-cock

Todd Gurley 2019 Outlook

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That seems like a bit of a stretch - Butler was decidedly average that whole 2017 season (103,3 passer rating allowed, ranked about middle of the pack in PFF grade).  We’re not talking about arguably the best player at his position, and the engine that drives one of the best offenses in the NFL.

Edited by BMcP

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3 hours ago, psygolf said:

Didn’t work for B.B. either...it cost him a 3-peat

Convenient excuse. But Butler wasn't the reason they lost as already pointed out. And Butler continues to display his average or below-average level of play with Tenn. Belichick knows what he is doing.

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4 minutes ago, devaster said:

Convenient excuse. But Butler wasn't the reason they lost as already pointed out. And Butler continues to display his average or below-average level of play with Tenn. Belichick knows what he is doing.

 

Pats for sure would have won with Butler. Literally just needed to make one play.

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4 hours ago, BMcP said:

That seems like a bit of a stretch - Butler was decidedly average that whole 2017 season (103,3 passer rating allowed, ranked about middle of the pack in PFF grade).  We’re not talking about arguably the best player at his position, and the engine that drives one of the best offenses in the NFL.

Woah I know you said arguably but Gurley is definitely not the best player at his position. He is in the best situation. Whenever that ever even changes slightly he regresses by leaps and bounds back into the middle of the pack

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12 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

Woah I know you said arguably but Gurley is definitely not the best player at his position. He is in the best situation. Whenever that ever even changes slightly he regresses by leaps and bounds back into the middle of the pack

 

Interesting - does this change frequently enough for us to know that?  I guess I’m just having trouble understanding this comment.

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33 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Interesting - does this change frequently enough for us to know that?  I guess I’m just having trouble understanding this comment.

Yes. Played bad in year 2 when situation wasn’t perfectly ideal. Handed the easiest fantasy situation possibly in league history this year and did well but failed to show when it mattered and against better teams(Chi late in season, NO and NE in playoffs). When he faces the absurdly low number of men in the box he has the last 2 years and is gifted easy red zone carries into he end zone over and over by his high scoring offense he does well. When he faces more men in the box and stout Run Ds schemed to stop him he disappears unlike the truly elite backs in the league. Shoot, in another great scheme(but not as good as Gurley’s) Damien Williams did great against the Pats. Gurley is a front-runner, and the best at that in the league, but he crumbles when faced with any diversity

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2 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

Yes. Played bad in year 2 when situation wasn’t perfectly ideal. Handed the easiest fantasy situation possibly in league history this year 

 

Hyperbole much.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Hyperbole much.

 

 

No. There has likely never been an easier fantasy situation for an RB in NFL history. Ridiculous numbers of 8 men in the box(almost none ever), yards before contact, red zone opportunities. Basically the perfect storm of scheme and opportunity. Gurley even well underperformed given that - I mean we all saw how awful he was in Chi, and in the last 2 games of the playoffs, but he also had terrible yards after contact numbers, showing that what he did this last year was basically 100% on the backs of his scheme and historically good OL, and that taken those away he would have been average at best this year. He doesn’t create anything on his own. If Saquon were in that offense he would have made Gurley’s production look pedestrian.

Edited by elroypedro

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6 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

No. There has likely never been an easier fantasy situation for an RB in NFL history. Ridiculous numbers of 8 men in the box(almost none ever), yards before contact, red zone opportunities. Basically the perfect storm of scheme and opportunity. Gurley even well underperformed given that - I mean we all saw how awful he was in Chi, and in the last 2 games of the playoffs, but he also had terrible yards after contact numbers, showing that what he did this last year was basically 100% on the backs of his scheme and historically good OL, and that taken those away he would have been average at best this year. He doesn’t create anything on his own. If Saquon were in that offense he would have made Gurley’s production look pedestrian.

 

Did Gurley steal your lunch money or something?

 

Peyton Hillis made the cover of Madden based on his situation.   Edge in Indy was also in a great spot.

 

 

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1 minute ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Did Gurley steal your lunch money or something?

 

Peyton Hillis made the cover of Madden based on his situation.   Edge in Indy was also in a great spot.

 

 

What kind of trolling response is that? Stole my lunch money? 

 

Gurley just isnt an elite talent. Shoot he had more drops in the last 2 games than CMC has had in his 32 game career. He had 5 times as many drops this entire year as CMC has had in his career. He isn’t a good pass catcher by any means. He doesn’t create anything for himself on the ground. What does he do? Runs through the most open holes anyone has ever seen because of a great scheme, never seeing stacked boxes, and an ultra elite OL. Take any of that away and he disappears.

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4 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

What kind of trolling response is that? Stole my lunch money? 

 

Gurley just isnt an elite talent. Shoot he had more drops in the last 2 games than CMC has had in his 32 game career. He had 5 times as many drops this entire year as CMC has had in his career. He isn’t a good pass catcher by any means. He doesn’t create anything for himself on the ground. What does he do? Runs through the most open holes anyone has ever seen because of a great scheme, never seeing stacked boxes, and an ultra elite OL. Take any of that away and he disappears.

 

So has every talent scout that has ever evaluated him just been wrong?

 

Gurley is a talented guy in a great scheme. Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

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10 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

So has every talent scout that has ever evaluated him just been wrong?

 

Gurley is a talented guy in a great scheme. Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

This was literally just explained to you, in the simplest terms. I just can’t believe you are being genuine in your lack of understanding. 

 

And why ask a question about scouts when you clearly don’t follow them. Many of the most trustworthy scouts have mentioned two big red flags with him: he has power but doesn’t create well after contact especially downfield or in the backfield and is instead a 1 cut guy, and secondly he isn’t a great pass catcher. He is a good route runner for a back but has below average hands, hence the extremely high number of dropped balls.

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39 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

Yes. Played bad in year 2 when situation wasn’t perfectly ideal. Handed the easiest fantasy situation possibly in league history this year and did well but failed to show when it mattered and against better teams(Chi late in season, NO and NE in playoffs). When he faces the absurdly low number of men in the box he has the last 2 years and is gifted easy red zone carries into he end zone over and over by his high scoring offense he does well. When he faces more men in the box and stout Run Ds schemed to stop him he disappears unlike the truly elite backs in the league. Shoot, in another great scheme(but not as good as Gurley’s) Damien Williams did great against the Pats. Gurley is a front-runner, and the best at that in the league, but he crumbles when faced with any diversity

 

LOL!  Yes, I will admit suffering under the yoke of Jeff Fisher in 2016 was pretty frickin’ far from “perfectly ideal” - no argument there. Apart from that s-show, he’s been incredible.

 

But more importantly, what dramatic changes occurred for him situationally since the hiring of McVay?  I honestly can’t think of any.  You brought up two playoff games in which he was suspiciously underutilized and was widely rumored to have been dealing with an injury, and one game against the best defense in the league by far.  You also ignored his playoff game versus Dallas and his spectacular full-season numbers.

 

I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced of either of your arguments: that he wilts under adversity, or that his situation keeps fluctuating, and with it, his performance.

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3 minutes ago, elroypedro said:

This was literally just explained to you, in the simplest terms. I just can’t believe you are being genuine in your lack of understanding. 

 

And why ask a question about scouts when you clearly don’t follow them. Many of the most trustworthy scouts have mentioned two big red flags with him: he has power but doesn’t create well after contact especially downfield or in the backfield and is instead a 1 cut guy, and secondly he isn’t a great pass catcher. He is a good route runner for a back but has below average hands, hence the extremely high number of dropped balls.

 

You just seem to really hate Todd Gurley on a personal level. There is one of you in each player outlook thread apparently. 

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2 hours ago, elroypedro said:

 If Saquon were in that offense he would have made Gurley’s production look pedestrian.

I wouldn’t mind seeing what you would’ve projected Barkley doing, if he had been in this ‘18 Ram offense.

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2 hours ago, elroypedro said:

No. There has likely never been an easier fantasy situation for an RB in NFL history. Ridiculous numbers of 8 men in the box(almost none ever), yards before contact, red zone opportunities. Basically the perfect storm of scheme and opportunity. Gurley even well underperformed given that - I mean we all saw how awful he was in Chi, and in the last 2 games of the playoffs, but he also had terrible yards after contact numbers, showing that what he did this last year was basically 100% on the backs of his scheme and historically good OL, and that taken those away he would have been average at best this year. He doesn’t create anything on his own. If Saquon were in that offense he would have made Gurley’s production look pedestrian.

Gurley vs 8 man...8.2%

Barkley vs 8 man...22.9%.  

 

Which means on average:

 

Gurley faced a stacked box 1.49 times per game in ‘18

 

Barkley faced a stacked box 3.67 times each game.

 

So is 2 less carries against that type of D each week the real reason why Gurley was on his MVP pace before getting dinged up?

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9 minutes ago, psygolf said:

Gurley vs 8 man...8.2%

Barkley vs 8 man...22.9%.  

 

Which means on average:

 

Gurley faced a stacked box 1.49 times per game in ‘18

 

Barkley faced a stacked box 3.67 times each game.

 

So is 2 less carries against that type of D each week the real reason why Gurley was on his MVP pace before getting dinged up?

To play devils advocate here - 

 

say that’s 10 yards a game. That’s 160 on the season. Which is about 12% of his rushing yards on the regular season.

 

This also doesn’t account for offensive line. PFF has the Rams 2018 regular season’s 6th ranked O-Line compared to the Giants 21s rank. 

 

But lets not forget - we’re talking fantasy football. Barkley will still be a Giant and Gurley will still be a Ram. Even if Barkley is more talented, a lot of value is systematic position. Look at Damien Williams at the end of the season. Epitome of a ‘JAG’ in the right position creating fantasy production. 

 

I still lean Gurley in 2019. 

 

Barkley first overall? That’s a no from me Dawg

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If Gurley is 100% healthy going into 2019, I would love to have him on my fantasy team.  But how are we going to know?  McVay will tell us?

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Crazily, Gurley actually averaged around .5 blockers/box defender this year.  That’s wild!

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12 minutes ago, Joshmcd94 said:

To play devils advocate here - 

 

say that’s 10 yards a game. That’s 160 on the season. Which is about 12% of his rushing yards on the regular season.

 

This also doesn’t account for offensive line. PFF has the Rams 2018 regular season’s 6th ranked O-Line compared to the Giants 21s rank. 

 

But lets not forget - we’re talking fantasy football. Barkley will still be a Giant and Gurley will still be a Ram. Even if Barkley is more talented, a lot of value is systematic position. Look at Damien Williams at the end of the season. Epitome of a ‘JAG’ in the right position creating fantasy production. 

 

I still lean Gurley in 2019. 

 

Barkley first overall? That’s a no from me Dawg

The point being...was going against a lighter front 2 more times a game really the reason Gurley was on a killer pace?

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Barkley's in a league of his own talent wise but to say Gurleys not elite? I can't name a guy thats had back to back 2K years.

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On 2/7/2019 at 8:30 AM, psygolf said:

Didn’t work for B.B. either...it cost him a 3-peat

 

Huh? Wouldn't the circumstances have been entirely different if the Pats-Eagles SB played out differently? Difficult to go back in time and change something and expect everything else that happened afterwards remains the same.

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On 2/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, psygolf said:

fwiw...Breida had the fastest speed on the year. 22.09 mph. Crazy.

 

probably because he's scared to death of getting hit, guy is a wimp. Talented and fast wimp.

 

Gurley didn't appear injured to me down the stretch. It was quite baffling how he was used though.

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1 hour ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

probably because he's scared to death of getting hit, guy is a wimp. Talented and fast wimp.

 

Gurley didn't appear injured to me down the stretch. It was quite baffling how he was used though.

 

Really? Didn't look at all the same to me.

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