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BackyardBaseball

Dynasty Trade: Vlad for Eloy+

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How much would you add to Eloy for Vlad? I see them being similarly great, with Vlads big advantage coming with a better Obp than Eloy.  Eloy on the other hand could definitely end up with more power.

 

Current offer(assuming he won’t accept it)

 

Eloy

Verlander

Mallex Smith

 

for

 

Vlad Jr

Carlos Martinez or Bumgarner

 

would you go as far as Eloy + Verlander for Vlad straight up?

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I'd offer it, but it will likely get declined. You'll probably need to give up a young/strong dynasty asset, entering or in their prime, along with Eloy to get Vlad. If this were 5 or 7 years ago, it'd have a much better chance of getting accepted. 

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Hold onto Eloy / M. Smith, and just flip JV for Vladdy. 

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48 minutes ago, Rush2112 said:

Hold onto Eloy / M. Smith, and just flip JV for Vladdy. 

I don't think there are many dynasty formats, if any, that would have an owner trade Vlad for Verlander straight up. I have seen rankings that put Vlad Jr. in the top 10 of dynasty rankings heading into the season. 

1 hour ago, BackyardBaseball said:

 

would you go as far as Eloy + Verlander for Vlad straight up?

I don't think that offer is ridiculous and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was not accepted. JV is about to turn 36. Just think about that in the dynasty context for a minute. Would you trade Eloy and about 2 years of a good pitcher for Vlad? I don't think I would if I owned Vlad.

 

Verlander is the tricky piece to the puzzle for you. He is only worth anything to a team competing for a championship this year and next. If you are trying to get Vlad from a rebuilding team then Vlad is worth an incredible amount to them and you need to severely overpay on paper to pry him away. 

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4 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

I don't think there are many dynasty formats, if any, that would have an owner trade Vlad for Verlander straight up. I have seen rankings that put Vlad Jr. in the top 10 of dynasty rankings heading into the season. 

I don't think that offer is ridiculous and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was not accepted. JV is about to turn 36. Just think about that in the dynasty context for a minute. Would you trade Eloy and about 2 years of a good pitcher for Vlad? I don't think I would if I owned Vlad.

 

Verlander is the tricky piece to the puzzle for you. He is only worth anything to a team competing for a championship this year and next. If you are trying to get Vlad from a rebuilding team then Vlad is worth an incredible amount to them and you need to severely overpay on paper to pry him away. 

 

Thanks for the great insight!

 

The team with vlad is in contetion right now, and with Verlander added to his staff he would have the clear #1 pitching staff to go with a lineup lead by Arenado, Machado, Baez and Correa.  The Mallex aspect helps his needs for SBs as well.  We shall see, he said he would deal Vlad if I included Eloy and he has shown interest in JV and Mallex so may have a chance

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12 minutes ago, paintingtheblack said:

I'd offer it, but it will likely get declined. You'll probably need to give up a young/strong dynasty asset, entering or in their prime, along with Eloy to get Vlad. If this were 5 or 7 years ago, it'd have a much better chance of getting accepted. 

 

Well, Eloy and Vlad woulda been about 16 then. lol

 

IMO, Verlander/Eloy for Vlad is too much, even with Verlander at the age he is. Eloy is an elite prospect in his own right. Both have similar ETA's. I don't care about who has marginally better MiLB numbers, or who is ranked higher on any prospect rankings. These are two top-notch prospects, and a top 10/15 arm currently added to one for the other is too much. 

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Eloy won't hit for the average or get on base as much

 

Average in a runs won't be close imo

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28 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

 

Well, Eloy and Vlad woulda been about 16 then. lol

 

IMO, Verlander/Eloy for Vlad is too much, even with Verlander at the age he is. Eloy is an elite prospect in his own right. Both have similar ETA's. I don't care about who has marginally better MiLB numbers, or who is ranked higher on any prospect rankings. These are two top-notch prospects, and a top 10/15 arm currently added to one for the other is too much. 

 

This is sort of how I feel, which is why I was looking for more opinions.

 

what I didn’t mention is that it’s an OBP league, which definitely gives Vlad a big boost over Eloy, I could see the rest of their numbers being similar.

 

28 minutes ago, HOOTIE said:

Eloy won't hit for the average or get on base as much

 

Average in a runs won't be close imo

 

Eloy profiles as a .300 hitter so not like he’s gonna hurt you there.  Vlad definitely has a big upper hand in Obp though

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6 minutes ago, BackyardBaseball said:

 

 

Eloy profiles as a .300 hitter 

Never seen that

Everything I have seen is 

2

.280

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Vlad is being talked about as the "Best Prospect Ever".  I would trade Eloy + Verlander for him.  Vlad is about as close to a cant miss prospect that there can be.  80 grade hit, 70 grade power (Eloy 65 and 70).  His value is quite a bit higher than Eloy IMO, despite Eloy being a great prospect himself.  Verlander will collapse sooner than later, so much mileage on that arm.  Its funny how some people are worried about Scherzer, but no one really talks about Velander.  Verlander (age 35) has 2750 IP with 11 seasons over 200+.  Max (age 34) has 2100 IP with only 6 200+ seasons.  I see no problem adding Verlander to Eloy to get Vlad.  I think Vlad Jr is worth it, plus he is 3 years younger and both will be up this year, so you get 3 more years of a top player.

Edited by TheTruth024

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1 hour ago, HOOTIE said:

Never seen that

Everything I have seen is 

2

.280

 

people have him as  .280 when he first gets called up.  Prime projections show a .300 hitter.  I'm not talking about this year.  For reference here are IBW's prime projections for both.

 

Vlad: Prime Projection: 110/43/125/.325/.420/.635/5

Eloy: Prime Projection: 92/42/109/.306/.377/.563/1

 

IBW has them ranked 8th and 19th overall, which is one of the more aggressive rankings for Eloy I have seen.  He is more in the 30s/40s on other lists.  With these prime projections the r/rbi difference is significant so is the extra 40 + points in obp.  

 

1 hour ago, TheTruth024 said:

Vlad is being talked about as the "Best Prospect Ever".  I would trade Eloy + Verlander for him.  Vlad is about as close to a cant miss prospect that there can be.  80 grade hit, 70 grade power (Eloy 65 and 70).  His value is quite a bit higher than Eloy IMO, despite Eloy being a great prospect himself.  Verlander will collapse sooner than later, so much mileage on that arm.  Its funny how some people are worried about Scherzer, but no one really talks about Velander.  Verlander (age 35) has 2750 IP with 11 seasons over 200+.  Max (age 34) has 2100 IP with only 6 200+ seasons.  I see no problem adding Verlander to Eloy to get Vlad.  I think Vlad Jr is worth it, plus he is 3 years younger and both will be up this year, so you get 3 more years of a top player.

 

The difference between Scherzer and Verlander is the fact that Verlander had those injury years that people had completely discounted him.  I got him off waivers in this league because he was considered done for 3 years ago.  Scherzer on the other hand has just gotten better and better.  I do agree though that after the last two years Verlander is now back in the same position as Scherzer and is being dinged for his age way more than max.  That being said for a win now team he still holds top 50ish value and would think he'd be enough to add to Eloy for Vlad.  

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You don't trade Vlad for anything in dynasty IMO. While Eloy is great, Vlad is on another freaking level. If the other guy thinks anything like me, he turns down that proposal in a heartbeat. 

Edited by Kirito-Sama

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I traded Eloy and Berrios to get Vlad and went freaking crazy when it was accepted . Not even looking back 

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2 hours ago, BackyardBaseball said:

The difference between Scherzer and Verlander is the fact that Verlander had those injury years that people had completely discounted him.  

 

Verlander has pitched Over 200 innings every year since 2007 except once (2015 where he still made 20 starts, 130 innings).  Not sure which injury years you are talking about.  Thats 11 years out of 12.  And he pitched 186 in 2006.  Unless you are talking about the injury years that are about to happen, Im not sure what you are talking about.  

 

All I meant by my comment is that it seems that people in general are worried about Scherzer because of his age and mileage.  But the real worry should be with Verlander.  That arm has to fall off really soon for as hard as he throws.  Enjoy him while you can, but for me, Ill pass and let someone else enjoy him while hes still good.  And if it means adding him in a trade to get Vlad Jr, Im not hesitating in the least

Edited by TheTruth024

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Ahhhh, I remember when jd Drew was the best prospect the game had possibly ever seen. 

 

How nuts people are about Vlad is so entertaining. 

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2 hours ago, TheTruth024 said:

 

Verlander has pitched Over 200 innings every year since 2007 except once (2015 where he still made 20 starts, 130 innings).  Not sure which injury years you are talking about.  Thats 11 years out of 12.  And he pitched 186 in 2006.  Unless you are talking about the injury years that are about to happen, Im not sure what you are talking about.  

 

All I meant by my comment is that it seems that people in general are worried about Scherzer because of his age and mileage.  But the real worry should be with Verlander.  That arm has to fall off really soon for as hard as he throws.  Enjoy him while you can, but for me, Ill pass and let someone else enjoy him while hes still good.  And if it means adding him in a trade to get Vlad Jr, Im not hesitating in the least

 

was referring to 2014 into 2015 where he clearly was pitching hurt in 2014 and was terrible and then was on the DL in 2015.  In 2015 he was completely out of the fantasy discussion as even a serviceable arm for the year.  His stock dropped to nothing, which is something that never happened to scherzer.  Basically Verlander made a comeback people weren't expecting which I feel like has left people more worried about him getting hurt than Scherzer and it has been reflected in his trade value.

 

42 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

Ahhhh, I remember when jd Drew was the best prospect the game had possibly ever seen. 

 

How nuts people are about Vlad is so entertaining. 

 

Sometimes you just gotta trust!  And JD Drew had some great years, dude just couldn't stay healthy.  Career .384 OBP though?  Pretty damn good.

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49 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

How nuts people are about Vlad is so entertaining. 

 

And people were nuts over another Elite prospect last year, some guy named Acuna.  Now hes a fixture in the top 20 overall players for the next decade most likely.  Guys like Vlad dont come around very often.  80 hit tool guys with 70 grade power.  If you cant get hyped up for that, you will never get hyped up.  This is a dynasty discussion, hence the extreme optimism.  If this was redraft or limited year keeper, different story.  

Edited by TheTruth024

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1 hour ago, TheTruth024 said:

 

And people were nuts over another Elite prospect last year, some guy named Acuna.  Now hes a fixture in the top 20 overall players for the next decade most likely.  Guys like Vlad dont come around very often.  80 hit tool guys with 70 grade power.  If you cant get hyped up for that, you will never get hyped up.  This is a dynasty discussion, hence the extreme optimism.  If this was redraft or limited year keeper, different story.  

 

Don't get me wrong. I definitely see how he can be great. But there have been trades posted on here like "trade Jose Ramirez for Vlad Jr?" or what not. 

 

I definitely get the hype. What I don't get is acting like the guy doesn't have a price.


Yeah, Acuna worked out. Want to go through a list of top 10 prospects that didn't? Profar, Myers, Buxton, Sano, Buxton, Correa, Bryant, Buxton were all top 3 from 2012-2015. Buxton claimed that title for 3 years. I'm not saying their success or lack thereof is any indication on what Guerrero will do. He is completely independent of them. However, the hype comes on early and often for many guys and never materializes. If you can trade Vlad for a 1st round talent, or multiple real nice talents, why wouldn't you? Let someone else take the risk there. Now if someone is offering like Mitch Haniger and Castellanos or something, yeah I get it, just hang tight (even though they are perfectly fine ballplayers). Buxton has some great minor league numbers (and at early ages) and hasn't begun to materialize. Again, that really doesn't have much to do with Guerrero, but there's really no such thing as a can't miss prospect. 

 

I love me some Vlad Jr. I'm not even saying the OP is mentally defective by not doing the deal at hand, but some of the things tossed around here are just from another planet. I remember when Sale moved for Moncada+ in the MLB. CWS made out like bandits, huh? Moncada was known to have a range of outcomes, but guys always get enamored with the shiny new toy. 

I love Vlad Jr, but if I owned him, I would absolutely be trying to capitalize on his current immense value. 

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Bryant has won a mvp 

Correa was having a mvp  year 2 years ago

Profar stat wise matched albies last year

These guys are far from busts

 

Mark appel is a bust

 

Sano Buxton not doing much but still young enough to turn it around

 

Drew was a above average hitter that was made of glass

 

Prospects deliver and fail 

But so do PROVEN mlb players

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