FreakFries

New York Giants 2019 Outlook

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27 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

There hasn't been a Saquan level guy since ADP. He was the right pick. I wouldn't spend an ounce of draft capital on WR though.

 

Agree that Saquan is on a level we haven't seen recently.  Maybe ever.  But in the long run, I don't think spending that pick (and eventual big money) on him is better than putting together a strong O-line or defense.   I think if you already have that in place, maybe taking an RB is fine.   But as it stands, they're gonna be trying to put together the rest of their team for the next few years.  

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2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

I think you are confusing  the talent with team situation.  Barley was not the right pick for the NYG regardless of his talent because they still sucked with him same as they sucked without him and the same problems exist as before bad oline+declining QB

So you would prefer barkleys talent on a 5 win team with no franchise QB and full blown rebuild with no playoff hopes rather than barkleys talent on a playoff contending team?

yeah that makes a lot of sense because all that matters was that he was the #2 pick of the DRAFT not his actual CAREER success. . .🤔

 

 

What if you could have pulled this off?:

 

S Barclay, OBJ, Engram and Tua Tagovsiloa at QB?

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2 minutes ago, FreakFries said:

 

 

What if you could have pulled this off?:

 

S Barclay, OBJ, Engram and Tua Tagovsiloa at QB?

Tua doesn't look like a great NFL prospect to me.

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6 minutes ago, devaster said:

Tua doesn't look like a great NFL prospect to me.

 

 

Maybe not Tua but surely the Giants could find someone next year better than Daniel Jones?

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4 minutes ago, FreakFries said:

 

 

Maybe not Tua but surely the Giants could find someone next year better than Daniel Jones?

Honestly, it doesn't really hurt to keep drafting QB's in the 1st round until the team finds the right one. Like the Cardinals just did. You can always trade the other young prospect if need be. I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often honestly. Teams lock themselves into "the guy" way too often and dig their own graves.

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30 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

The Giants won 5 games last year. They would have won 3 or 4 less without Saquan. He's awesome and was 100% the right pick.

So what you're saying is, without Saquan they would have had the #1 pick to blow on Jones this year?

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7 minutes ago, devaster said:

Honestly, it doesn't really hurt to keep drafting QB's in the 1st round until the team finds the right one. Like the Cardinals just did. You can always trade the other young prospect if need be. I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often honestly. Teams lock themselves into "the guy" way too often and dig their own graves.

 

Agree, but in this case you KNOW none of these QBs are the guy and you have 3 first round picks. Why not trade down one of them for ammo for next year or use them on studs this year? I get what the Cards did and have no problem with it because they thought Rosen was The Guy. Dave Gettleman is literally the only person in football who thinks Daniel Jones is The Guy and is so confident that he immediately back peddled when asked WTF he was thinking and said Jones “might sit for 3 years.” 

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18 minutes ago, devaster said:

Honestly, it doesn't really hurt to keep drafting QB's in the 1st round until the team finds the right one. Like the Cardinals just did. You can always trade the other young prospect if need be.

Yes it hurts. If you're that bad at picking QBs for your organization, then spend 4th round picks on them and use your first round to bolster your O-line (and defense) until you are in a position to plug in an average QB  and give him all the time he needs to make throws.

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29 minutes ago, K197040 said:

 

Agree that Saquan is on a level we haven't seen recently.  Maybe ever.  But in the long run, I don't think spending that pick (and eventual big money) on him is better than putting together a strong O-line or defense.   I think if you already have that in place, maybe taking an RB is fine.   But as it stands, they're gonna be trying to put together the rest of their team for the next few years.  


If you ignore salary cap considerations (especially relative positional costs) and the opportunity cost of draft picks.  For example, the Ravens just paid Mark Ingram $15M ($5mm/year for 3 years).  Saquon Barkley got a four-year, $31.2M rookie deal AND cost the 2nd overall draft pick to boot.   Daniel Jones will probably get a contract somewhere in the neighborhood of the low $20 millions/4 years. Given this, which set of players would you rather have? 

A.  Barkley (actual 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) + Daniel Jones (actual 1.06 pick of 2019 draft) for about $52M

B.  Mark Ingram (hypothetical FA acquisition) + Darnold (hyphothetical 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) for about $45M plus still having your 1.06 pick from the 2019 draft? 

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2 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Yes it hurts. If you're that bad at picking QBs for your organization, then spend 4th round picks on them and use your first round to bolster your O-line (and defense) until you are in a position to plug in an average QB  and give him all the time he needs to make throws.

How many 4th round and later round QB's end up being average starting QB's? Most of them are lengthy projects and career back-ups or 3rd stringers. Wilson was a 1st round prospect except for his height being under 5'11". Wilson would have been a 1st round pick now that we have seen QB's of his size succeed.

Dak is probably the best example. But most of the average starting QB's out there are former high draft picks. I don't think it hurts to keep drafting a QB if the one you drafted in the 1st round doesn't look like the real deal after a year or two. It should be obvious early on whether that guy can develop into a top tier QB.

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22 minutes ago, Boudewijn said:

Yes it hurts. If you're that bad at picking QBs for your organization, then spend 4th round picks on them and use your first round to bolster your O-line (and defense) until you are in a position to plug in an average QB  and give him all the time he needs to make throws.

The ravens and seahawks built great teams in the draft via defense but the marketing glory and merchandise sales is in the QB position

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20 minutes ago, devaster said:

How many 4th round and later round QB's end up being average starting QB's? Most of them are lengthy projects and career back-ups or 3rd stringers. Wilson was a 1st round prospect except for his height being under 5'11". Wilson would have been a 1st round pick now that we have seen QB's of his size succeed.

Dak is probably the best example. But most of the average starting QB's out there are former high draft picks. I don't think it hurts to keep drafting a QB if the one you drafted in the 1st round doesn't look like the real deal after a year or two. It should be obvious early on whether that guy can develop into a top tier QB.

 

Dak  and zeke had the benefits of a top 0line built to protect Romo and make murray a stud already in place, so it was a literal plug and play situation.

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2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

The ravens and seahawks built great teams in the draft via defense but the marketing glory and merchandise sales is in the QB position

Every great team is built via the draft, not solely defense. They had Wilson as a 3rd round pick on a cheap contract when they went to two SB's as well (or at least on a cheap contract for one of them). All it takes is one or two hauls from the draft.

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2 minutes ago, devaster said:

Every great team is built via the draft, not solely defense. They had Wilson as a 3rd round pick on a cheap contract when they went to two SB's as well (or at least on a cheap contract for one of them). All it takes is one or two hauls from the draft.

The economics and playing style of the NFL today forces a team to get their franchise QB in the draft unless they are already in contention and can secure one via  the market like Minn has done with their last 3 QB's bradford-keenum-kirk. 

The last couple of years with larger guaranteed money for the QB and top coaches only taking jobs based on the QB situation(stud in place/high draft pick) completely changed the way teams are building. 

Gettelman blew it his 1st year and now he looks like he will blow it his 2nd yr with regards to securing a franchise QB and incidentally dismantling a good defense along the way. . . but hey he was right about barkley 🤣

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5 minutes ago, dashoe said:

The economics and playing style of the NFL today forces a team to get their franchise QB in the draft unless they are already in contention and can secure one via  the market like Minn has done with their last 3 QB's bradford-keenum-kirk. 

The last couple of years with larger guaranteed money for the QB and top coaches only taking jobs based on the QB situation(stud in place/high draft pick) completely changed the way teams are building. 

Gettelman blew it his 1st year and now he looks like he will blow it his 2nd yr with regards to securing a franchise QB and incidentally dismantling a good defense along the way. . . but hey he was right about barkley 🤣

I'm not so sure the Giants had a good defense previously. They only had one decent year. That could have been more of an aberration than the norm. Vernon has always been an underachiever.

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2 minutes ago, devaster said:

I'm not so sure the Giants had a good defense previously. They only had one decent year. That could have been more of an aberration than the norm. Vernon has always been an underachiever.

trading landon collins to nfc east rivals---instead of franchising him---is about the biggest blunder gettlemen could have committed.

but, i guess there is more time for more blunder. i really like eli's shot in the 2022 season.

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1 minute ago, Sack Exchange said:

trading landon collins to nfc east rivals---instead of franchising him---is about the biggest blunder gettlemen could have committed.

but, i guess there is more time for more blunder. i really like eli's shot in the 2022 season.

He wasn't traded, he was a free agent and signed with the Redskins. Giants should have traded him when they had a good offer on the table though. Or franchised him and traded him like we have seen with a bunch of pass rushers this offseason.

The Giants were overrated though.

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2 hours ago, FreakFries said:

 

Agree, but in this case you KNOW none of these QBs are the guy and you have 3 first round picks. Why not trade down one of them for ammo for next year or use them on studs this year? I get what the Cards did and have no problem with it because they thought Rosen was The Guy. Dave Gettleman is literally the only person in football who thinks Daniel Jones is The Guy and is so confident that he immediately back peddled when asked WTF he was thinking and said Jones “might sit for 3 years.” 

 

Saquan could go down as the best back ever if he stays healthy IMO. I'll agree to disagree that it was a bad pick. 

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Just to add to the stupidity, their second pick was popped for PEDs

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1 hour ago, jumper said:


If you ignore salary cap considerations (especially relative positional costs) and the opportunity cost of draft picks.  For example, the Ravens just paid Mark Ingram $15M ($5mm/year for 3 years).  Saquon Barkley got a four-year, $31.2M rookie deal AND cost the 2nd overall draft pick to boot.   Daniel Jones will probably get a contract somewhere in the neighborhood of the low $20 millions/4 years. Given this, which set of players would you rather have? 

A.  Barkley (actual 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) + Daniel Jones (actual 1.06 pick of 2019 draft) for about $52M

B.  Mark Ingram (hypothetical FA acquisition) + Darnold (hyphothetical 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) for about $45M plus still having your 1.06 pick from the 2019 draft? 

 

Well I think most agree the Jones pick was dumb, so comparing doesn't really say anything about Saquan.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jumper said:


If you ignore salary cap considerations (especially relative positional costs) and the opportunity cost of draft picks.  For example, the Ravens just paid Mark Ingram $15M ($5mm/year for 3 years).  Saquon Barkley got a four-year, $31.2M rookie deal AND cost the 2nd overall draft pick to boot.   Daniel Jones will probably get a contract somewhere in the neighborhood of the low $20 millions/4 years. Given this, which set of players would you rather have? 

A.  Barkley (actual 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) + Daniel Jones (actual 1.06 pick of 2019 draft) for about $52M

B.  Mark Ingram (hypothetical FA acquisition) + Darnold (hyphothetical 1.02 pick of 2018 draft) for about $45M plus still having your 1.06 pick from the 2019 draft? 

C.   I'd rather have a good scheme, build a solid O-line and/or defense and figure out the RB later.    

 

 

 

 

Edited by K197040

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16 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Saquan could go down as the best back ever if he stays healthy IMO. I'll agree to disagree that it was a bad pick. 

 

The best rb on a team that has a losing record, will struggle to make the playoffs and porbably won't get to the SB  when his rookie deal is over?

Yeah that is the goal of teams when they draft.  .to have 1 great player and a losing team. . . 😂

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Bold prediction. . Drew Lock will have a better pro career than Daniel. . . 👁️

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