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22 hours ago, RedRaider27 said:

. James Harden

2. Giannis Antetokounmpo

3. Anthony Davis

4. Karl-Anthony Towns

5. Steph Curry

6. Kevin Durant

7. Nikola Jokic 

8. Paul George

9. Damian Lillard

10. Joel Embiid

11. Bradley Beal

12. Andre Drummond

 

22 hours ago, RedRaider27 said:

I didn't follow fantasy basketball as close as I have in probably 5 years this past season, so excuse me if I seem uniformed, but a few things jump out at me. First, Mitchell Robinson at 24. I know he looked good in limited minutes but you're ranking him as a 2nd round pick in some leagues. Second, you have LBJ at 16, which is fine, but no Ben Simmons in your top 40. Simmons is basically a baby Bron and is def a top 40 player IMO. Just my 2 cents. Again, I played this past season but honestly didn't really follow the players like I have in recent seasons (I'm a little bored with the NBA right now, think I watched ~15 games total the whole season) so bare with me and my opinions lol.

Simmons and LeBron aren't close in value.  LeBron was ranked 24th to Simmons 74th in 9 cat value.  Actually, Simmons had a negative z score which basically means he is worse than the average player for the league size used.  Simmons is not only a punt FT guy, but punt TO as well.  He doesn't score particularly well and has never hit a three.  He's a four cat (rebounds, assists, and stocks) player.  I'd be hard pressed to even put him top 50 in 9 cat, 8 cat maybe.  Unlike others, I don't expect a bounce back year from LeBron at his age, and I'm very low on him, but he's still significantly better than Simmons which tells you something about how woeful Simmons is for fantasy.  LeBron is a punt FT/TO guy like Simmons, which combined with his age, keeps him out of the first round discussion.  But he does so much more than Simmons: 27ppg/2 3pg compared to 17 and 0; FT% isn't quite as punitive as Simmons was better than only Whiteside and Adams in that regard...Simmons was even worse for FT% impact than Drummond!; their assists/rebounds/stocks were similar.  So there is no cat where Simmons outperformed LeBron and several where LeBron outperformed Simmons.  They're not even in the same league irl or in fantasy tbh.   

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On 4/15/2019 at 6:50 PM, StifleTower2 said:

 

Simmons and LeBron aren't close in value.  LeBron was ranked 24th to Simmons 74th in 9 cat value.  Actually, Simmons had a negative z score which basically means he is worse than the average player for the league size used.  Simmons is not only a punt FT guy, but punt TO as well.  He doesn't score particularly well and has never hit a three.  He's a four cat (rebounds, assists, and stocks) player.  I'd be hard pressed to even put him top 50 in 9 cat, 8 cat maybe.  Unlike others, I don't expect a bounce back year from LeBron at his age, and I'm very low on him, but he's still significantly better than Simmons which tells you something about how woeful Simmons is for fantasy.  LeBron is a punt FT/TO guy like Simmons, which combined with his age, keeps him out of the first round discussion.  But he does so much more than Simmons: 27ppg/2 3pg compared to 17 and 0; FT% isn't quite as punitive as Simmons was better than only Whiteside and Adams in that regard...Simmons was even worse for FT% impact than Drummond!; their assists/rebounds/stocks were similar.  So there is no cat where Simmons outperformed LeBron and several where LeBron outperformed Simmons.  They're not even in the same league irl or in fantasy tbh.   

Good stats, definitely opened my eyes on some things. The multi-position eligibility Simmons has at PG/PF with his combination of rebounds, assists and stocks is still very hard to find however. While I get what you mean with the z-score thing, it seems flawed to me if you're saying an average player (waiver wire player is what I believe you mean) is more valuable than Simmons. In real life, I don't think I would say they're not even in the same league. But, LeBron is still clearly better and can still be the best player in the world on any given night. 

Edited by RedRaider27

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9 hours ago, RedRaider27 said:

Good stats, definitely opened my eyes on some things. The multi-position eligibility Simmons has at PG/PF with his combination of rebounds, assists and stocks is still very hard to find however. While I get what you mean with the z-score thing, it seems flawed to me if you're saying an average player (waiver wire player is what I believe you mean) is more valuable than Simmons. In real life, I don't think I would say they're not even in the same league. But, LeBron is still clearly better and can still be the best player in the world on any given night. 

In roto, Simmons really isn't nearly as good as you'd think, for the reasons stated.  If you could get him at 50, sure, but of course you can't.  In H2H he's a lot better because you can work around his faults, but there's plenty of them: 

 

- As @StifleTower2 said, he's a punt in FT%

- He's more or less a punt in TO not because they're especially atrocious (tied for 8th worst, 3.5, but there's  16 players total averaging over 3, and even three players averaging over 4), but because you're getting him the second round, you're probably pairing him with another top 20-25 worst TO guy and now your TOs are ****** badly.

- He's literally as bad in threes as you can possibly be, since he's NEVER made one.  This hurts no matter what, but it especially hurts if you're using him more as a PG than PF.

- He's barely above league average in points.  This and threes is where he really loses value compared to LeBron, who many people aren't considering a first rounder anymore any way.

- On top of all this, if he got a huge amount of blocks, that would help.  But he doesn't, he's league average.

That's one cat he's making you punt, two cats that he's encouraging you to punt, and two cats that he's not really helping you in.  That leaves only four left.

Then, on top of ALLLLLL that, the FT%/3PM punt is super rare and really hard to find guys to fit.  Likewise with the PTS/TO punts.  So he doesn't even fit naturally into a punt format, whereas someone like Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan back in the day easily did.

 

I have to say that Simmons needs to work on fixing some of those weak five cats before I'd consider drafting him in the first few rounds.

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9 hours ago, RedRaider27 said:

Good stats, definitely opened my eyes on some things. The multi-position eligibility Simmons has at PG/PF with his combination of rebounds, assists and stocks is still very hard to find however. While I get what you mean with the z-score thing, it seems flawed to me if you're saying an average player (waiver wire player is what I believe you mean) is more valuable than Simmons. In real life, I don't think I would say they're not even in the same league. But, LeBron is still clearly better and can still be the best player in the world on any given night. 

No, I don't mean a WW player because a WW player is significantly worse than the average player.  The average player for 12 team is ranked about 70th.  

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1 hour ago, Pyschout said:

In roto, Simmons really isn't nearly as good as you'd think, for the reasons stated.  If you could get him at 50, sure, but of course you can't.  In H2H he's a lot better because you can work around his faults, but there's plenty of them: 

 

- As @StifleTower2 said, he's a punt in FT%

- He's more or less a punt in TO not because they're especially atrocious (tied for 8th worst, 3.5, but there's  16 players total averaging over 3, and even three players averaging over 4), but because you're getting him the second round, you're probably pairing him with another top 20-25 worst TO guy and now your TOs are ****** badly.

- He's literally as bad in threes as you can possibly be, since he's NEVER made one.  This hurts no matter what, but it especially hurts if you're using him more as a PG than PF.

- He's barely above league average in points.  This and threes is where he really loses value compared to LeBron, who many people aren't considering a first rounder anymore any way.

- On top of all this, if he got a huge amount of blocks, that would help.  But he doesn't, he's league average.

That's one cat he's making you punt, two cats that he's encouraging you to punt, and two cats that he's not really helping you in.  That leaves only four left.

Then, on top of ALLLLLL that, the FT%/3PM punt is super rare and really hard to find guys to fit.  Likewise with the PTS/TO punts.  So he doesn't even fit naturally into a punt format, whereas someone like Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan back in the day easily did.

 

I have to say that Simmons needs to work on fixing some of those weak five cats before I'd consider drafting him in the first few rounds.

 

1 hour ago, StifleTower2 said:

No, I don't mean a WW player because a WW player is significantly worse than the average player.  The average player for 12 team is ranked about 70th.  

Good stuff, good stuff. I like the conversation without going into personal attacks which these sort of discussions usually go. I'll admit I was wrong, Simmons is definitely not the kind of impact player I thought he was. 

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6 hours ago, LuSamSiam said:

Is Alex Caruso a first rounder next year, or more of a second rounder?

you reach I teach

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On 4/17/2019 at 4:36 AM, Pyschout said:

In roto, Simmons really isn't nearly as good as you'd think, for the reasons stated.  If you could get him at 50, sure, but of course you can't.  In H2H he's a lot better because you can work around his faults, but there's plenty of them: 

 

- As @StifleTower2 said, he's a punt in FT%

- He's more or less a punt in TO not because they're especially atrocious (tied for 8th worst, 3.5, but there's  16 players total averaging over 3, and even three players averaging over 4), but because you're getting him the second round, you're probably pairing him with another top 20-25 worst TO guy and now your TOs are ****** badly.

- He's literally as bad in threes as you can possibly be, since he's NEVER made one.  This hurts no matter what, but it especially hurts if you're using him more as a PG than PF.

- He's barely above league average in points.  This and threes is where he really loses value compared to LeBron, who many people aren't considering a first rounder anymore any way.

- On top of all this, if he got a huge amount of blocks, that would help.  But he doesn't, he's league average.

That's one cat he's making you punt, two cats that he's encouraging you to punt, and two cats that he's not really helping you in.  That leaves only four left.

Then, on top of ALLLLLL that, the FT%/3PM punt is super rare and really hard to find guys to fit.  Likewise with the PTS/TO punts.  So he doesn't even fit naturally into a punt format, whereas someone like Andre Drummond or DeAndre Jordan back in the day easily did.

 

I have to say that Simmons needs to work on fixing some of those weak five cats before I'd consider drafting him in the first few rounds.

Looking at BBM's final rankings, Simmons was the biggest bust of anyone in the top 100. ADP of 15, final ranking of 72, for a difference of negative 57. That kind of thing will probably keep happening unless he shores up his deficiencies.

 

His owner in my main league finished with a 1 in FT's and a 1 in 3's, as expected, and he didn't come close to placing. Will be avoiding him next year at all costs. 

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9 hours ago, Kaboom said:

Looking at BBM's final rankings, Simmons was the biggest bust of anyone in the top 100. ADP of 15, final ranking of 72, for a difference of negative 57. That kind of thing will probably keep happening unless he shores up his deficiencies.

 

His owner in my main league finished with a 1 in FT's and a 1 in 3's, as expected, and he didn't come close to placing. Will be avoiding him next year at all costs. 

Yes, I know people will think I just talk s--- about certain players bc I don't like them, but it comes from both theory and experience.  I play about 20 different leagues which gives me a chance to experiment a little.  I had one triple punt team this team with Simmons, Westbrook, Lebron, Drummond that I thought would be interesting.  But it became a four cat punt when I couldn't stream enough threes.  Was competitive for a while but had no real chance at the end, finished 7th I think.  Now if I had used that Simmons money for a high 3 point shooting wing such as Klay or Hield and a PF like Tobias then maybe I would have had a chance. 

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