Trench Mob

2019 NBA Playoffs Thread

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4 hours ago, Jake the snake said:

It is embarassing how much the raptors continue to get disrespected by the US media...As Chuck D would say:

Image result for don't believe the hype gif

 

I do agree that the Raptors were undervalued to an extent going into the year.  But most know the Raptors have talent and were a legitimate contender to come out of the East.  You mentioned the Warriors credentials - some still applicable to the players in their prime, but some clearly are not as they are no longer in their prime/the same player they were.  But its not like the Raptors don't have these type of credentials too. 

Multiple time all-star, finals MVP, first and second team all-NBA, first team all-defense, and defensive player of the year (Kawhi).

Multiple time all-star, third team all-NBA (Lowry)

Multiple time all-star, first team all-NBA, second team all-defense, defensive player of the year (Gasol),

Multiple first team all-defense (Ibaka)

Second team all-defense (Danny Green)

Most likely winner of the most improved player this year (Siakam)

Solid role players (VanVleet, Powell)

Former Linsanity hype machine (Lin)

 

Now some still applicable, some are not.  It goes both ways.  Regarding injuries, yes, both teams have multiple injuries to deal with.  But there is a difference between playing hurt guys and guys not playing at all.  KD hasn't played all series.  Klay missed last night.  Looney missed last night and will the rest of the series.  Take Kawhi, Lowry, and Ibaka out, and see what happens to the Raptors if the Warriors had KD, Klay, and Looney hurt but playing. 

And the media is not ignoring the Raptors injuries - not sure what media you are listening to, but they are mentioned all of the time especially with Kawhi not being healthy and having issues.  OG maybe is ignored, but Kawhi and Lowry are mentioned all of the time.

Its going to be a long series.  Yes the Warriors are portrayed as having more talent, and going into the series if healthy were the favorites.  But those portrayals are accurate because their 4 best players are better than the Raptors 4 best players.  But this "Raptors is disrespected" narrative is not accurate.  

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2 hours ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

I do agree that the Raptors were undervalued to an extent going into the year.  But most know the Raptors have talent and were a legitimate contender to come out of the East.  You mentioned the Warriors credentials - some still applicable to the players in their prime, but some clearly are not as they are no longer in their prime/the same player they were.  But its not like the Raptors don't have these type of credentials too. 

Multiple time all-star, finals MVP, first and second team all-NBA, first team all-defense, and defensive player of the year (Kawhi).

Multiple time all-star, third team all-NBA (Lowry)

Multiple time all-star, first team all-NBA, second team all-defense, defensive player of the year (Gasol),

Multiple first team all-defense (Ibaka)

Second team all-defense (Danny Green)

Most likely winner of the most improved player this year (Siakam)

Solid role players (VanVleet, Powell)

Former Linsanity hype machine (Lin)

  

Now some still applicable, some are not.  It goes both ways.  Regarding injuries, yes, both teams have multiple injuries to deal with.  But there is a difference between playing hurt guys and guys not playing at all.  KD hasn't played all series.  Klay missed last night.  Looney missed last night and will the rest of the series.  Take Kawhi, Lowry, and Ibaka out, and see what happens to the Raptors if the Warriors had KD, Klay, and Looney hurt but playing. 

And the media is not ignoring the Raptors injuries - not sure what media you are listening to, but they are mentioned all of the time especially with Kawhi not being healthy and having issues.  OG maybe is ignored, but Kawhi and Lowry are mentioned all of the time.

Its going to be a long series.  Yes the Warriors are portrayed as having more talent, and going into the series if healthy were the favorites.  But those portrayals are accurate because their 4 best players are better than the Raptors 4 best players.  But this "Raptors is disrespected" narrative is not accurate.  

Everyone wants to turn their team into the underdog and claim it was "disrespected" because it adds fuel to their fire and makes it more compelling when they win.  Ofc when they lose, it also gives them the easy excuse that they were the underdogs all along but they give it their all, fought the good fight, etc. 

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3 hours ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

I do agree that the Raptors were undervalued to an extent going into the year.  But most know the Raptors have talent and were a legitimate contender to come out of the East.  You mentioned the Warriors credentials - some still applicable to the players in their prime, but some clearly are not as they are no longer in their prime/the same player they were.  But its not like the Raptors don't have these type of credentials too. 

Multiple time all-star, finals MVP, first and second team all-NBA, first team all-defense, and defensive player of the year (Kawhi).

Multiple time all-star, third team all-NBA (Lowry)

Multiple time all-star, first team all-NBA, second team all-defense, defensive player of the year (Gasol),

Multiple first team all-defense (Ibaka)

Second team all-defense (Danny Green)

Most likely winner of the most improved player this year (Siakam)

Solid role players (VanVleet, Powell)

Former Linsanity hype machine (Lin)

 

Now some still applicable, some are not.  It goes both ways.  Regarding injuries, yes, both teams have multiple injuries to deal with.  But there is a difference between playing hurt guys and guys not playing at all.  KD hasn't played all series.  Klay missed last night.  Looney missed last night and will the rest of the series.  Take Kawhi, Lowry, and Ibaka out, and see what happens to the Raptors if the Warriors had KD, Klay, and Looney hurt but playing. 

And the media is not ignoring the Raptors injuries - not sure what media you are listening to, but they are mentioned all of the time especially with Kawhi not being healthy and having issues.  OG maybe is ignored, but Kawhi and Lowry are mentioned all of the time.

Its going to be a long series.  Yes the Warriors are portrayed as having more talent, and going into the series if healthy were the favorites.  But those portrayals are accurate because their 4 best players are better than the Raptors 4 best players.  But this "Raptors is disrespected" narrative is not accurate.  

I know who the raptors have, I been v trying to say all along they're a great team. funny how when the warriors lose its airways straight to the injuries and then, "but let's give some credit to the raptors" always the second point and when the raptors lose its crickets about raptors injuries and all about how "they don't want it enough" (to quote Paul piece). 

Remember 76ers series of raps won it was because 76ers played bad, when 76ers won it was because they are clearly better. Against bucks they were taking Matchups v warriors after game 2...that's disrespect. 

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47 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

I know who the raptors have, I been v trying to say all along they're a great team. funny how when the warriors lose its airways straight to the injuries and then, "but let's give some credit to the raptors" always the second point and when the raptors lose its crickets about raptors injuries and all about how "they don't want it enough" (to quote Paul piece). 

Remember 76ers series of raps won it was because 76ers played bad, when 76ers won it was because they are clearly better. Against bucks they were taking Matchups v warriors after game 2...that's disrespect. 

And after game 3,  talk of the day is Curry's great game.  Nobody mention Raptors had a great game

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When maybe the best player in the world isn't playing...yeah, that's gonna be mentioned lol

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3 minutes ago, Pyschout said:

When maybe the best player in the world isn't playing...yeah, that's gonna be mentioned lol

Kawhi is playing

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1 hour ago, Jake the snake said:

I know who the raptors have, I been v trying to say all along they're a great team. funny how when the warriors lose its airways straight to the injuries and then, "but let's give some credit to the raptors" always the second point and when the raptors lose its crickets about raptors injuries and all about how "they don't want it enough" (to quote Paul piece). 

Remember 76ers series of raps won it was because 76ers played bad, when 76ers won it was because they are clearly better. Against bucks they were taking Matchups v warriors after game 2...that's disrespect. 

 

Yes you have been saying the Raptors are a great team, but then also mentioned the Warriors as being "ridiculously overstacked with talent" while mentioning their credentials as if the talent disparity was really that big between the two teams or portrayed as that by the media.  I was just trying to point out the Raptors credentials, and that the talent disparity is not ridiculously big.  And the media is not portraying it as such either. 

Like I said before, the Warriors 4 best players are better than the Raptors 4 best players, and the media accurately portrays it that way.  But they are not treating the Raptors as if they are the Magic or Clippers though for example.  Paul Pierce is not a credible source as he is just considered a talking head who makes dumb comments and predictions.  I listen to many sports podcasts (Open Floor, Bill Simmons, Brian Windhorst, Zach Lowe, among others), and they are not disrespecting the Raptors at all.  Many in the media gave monster praise to Siakam and Gasol after game 1.  Lowry and Danny Green were praised last night.  Kawhi has been praised as being the best player in the playoffs.  Siakam's play, his story, and how much he has improved has been mentioned all of the time throughout the playoffs.  Their defense has been praised time and time again from the media.  What more can they say? 

Many picked the Raptors to win the series prior to game 1, after game 1, after game 3.  Probably a little more picked the Warriors to win the series prior to game 1, after game 2. Teams are always going to be discounted by some in any series.  But this level of disrespect you are describing is not truly happening. 

And regarding injuries, again, there is a difference between players playing hurt and players missing games entirely.  Kawhi and Lowry are not 100%.  Neither are Iggy and Cousins.  But they all played.  KD, Klay, and Looney missing game 3 is a way bigger detriment to their team than just OG missing the game or Kawhi/Lowry not being 100%. That is why KD/Klay/Looney mentioned as a bigger deal in a loss than the Raptors playing hurt players in a loss is totally justifiable.

 

1 hour ago, Gile Pile said:

And after game 3,  talk of the day is Curry's great game.  Nobody mention Raptors had a great game

 

Not sure who you are listening to, but Lowry and Danny Green have been praised for their games last night. 

And btw, did Curry not have the best game of any player out there?  Given the circumstances, being given the most praise was 100% justified.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

Enjoying the banter, but just like we are giving out take you're doing the same. The reason i listed all the warriors talent from last nights game is because there is just an endless stream of nauseating discussion about excuses for the Warriors and their injuries. Like I said it injuries first, as @Gile Pile points out, Steph's SUPER game 2nd, and oh yeah lets give the raptors a bit of credit too.

I listen to the Simmons podcasts, Simmons schtick is disrespecting the Raptors. He loves it. Take his latest podcast for example. First 25-30mins is almost exclusively GSW, then him and his mate spend the next 20 mins talking about how they are going to talk about Toronto, but digress back to GSW or Boston (of course). In total there was about 15mins about Toronto and most of that was dedicated to Toronto possibly being the most unlikely champions since the Pistons and how Lowry just takes bad shots, but he just hit a few of them.

Windhorst is one of the biggest hacks in the NBA. ESPN corporate puppet that peddles out hype and headlines in their vain attempt to stack super teams in super markets.

Zack Lowe is one of the best analysts in the game and he has given some credit to Toronto.

Out of the talking heads the only guys that are worth anything are Isiah Thomas and Pippen (and surprisingly Kendrick Perkins - who isn't caught up in the pack mentality of the former ex-player crowd), guys that proved it multiple times - and guys who actually believe in this team. The majority of the rest are so disrespectful to the Raptors and spout rubbish like Pierce or worse all the time and whether you like it or not that is the media, and that is the media most people tune into.

In terms of Siakam, that story is a REALLY old story and he journey has been written about many, many times. He is one of my favourite players in the NBA. The reason it's being rehashed again is because alot of people south of the border still don't really know him. I mean this was written in the San Francisco Chronicle:

Two weeks ago, Siakam was a cinch to win the NBA’s Most Improved Player award, with little to show for himself in the playoffs. Right now, he’s a force. That Game 1 performance was no accident, rather a great athlete developing supreme confidence in himself.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/jenkins/article/Warriors-contain-Raptors-Kawhi-Leonard-but-13908766.php

Siakam before Game 1 in the playoffs:
18.7pts 7 rbs 2.4ast 1.2 stl 0.7blk 1.3TOs (46/29/76%)
Siakam Regular season:
16.9pts 6.9rbs 3.1ast 0.9stl 0.7blk 1.9TOs (55/37/79%)

Let alone being one of the best defenders in the WHOLE playoffs. Disrespect. 

 

Basically, in summary, we just want people to be nicer:

 

 

Edited by Jake the snake
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37 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

Enjoying the banter, but just like we are giving out take you're doing the same. The reason i listed all the warriors talent from last nights game is because there is just an endless stream of nauseating discussion about excuses for the Warriors and their injuries. Like I said it injuries first, as @Gile Pile points out, Steph's SUPER game 2nd, and oh yeah lets give the raptors a bit of credit too.

I listen to the Simmons podcasts, Simmons schtick is disrespecting the Raptors. He loves it. Take his latest podcast for example. First 25-30mins is almost exclusively GSW, then him and his mate spend the next 20 mins talking about how they are going to talk about Toronto, but digress back to GSW or Boston (of course). In total there was about 15mins about Toronto and most of that was dedicated to Toronto possibly being the most unlikely champions since the Pistons and how Lowry just takes bad shots, but he just hit a few of them.

Windhorst is one of the biggest hacks in the NBA. ESPN corporate puppet that peddles out hype and headlines in their vain attempt to stack super teams in super markets.

Zack Lowe is one of the best analysts in the game and he has given some credit to Toronto.

Out of the talking heads the only guys that are worth anything are Isiah Thomas and Pippen (and surprisingly Kendrick Perkins - who isn't caught up in the pack mentality of the former ex-player crowd), guys that proved it multiple times - and guys who actually believe in this team. The majority of the rest are so disrespectful to the Raptors and spout rubbish like Pierce or worse all the time and whether you like it or not that is the media, and that is the media most people tune into.

In terms of Siakam, that story is a REALLY old story and he journey has been written about many, many times. He is one of my favourite players in the NBA. The reason it's being rehashed again is because alot of people south of the border still don't really know him. I mean this was written in the San Francisco Chronicle:

Two weeks ago, Siakam was a cinch to win the NBA’s Most Improved Player award, with little to show for himself in the playoffs. Right now, he’s a force. That Game 1 performance was no accident, rather a great athlete developing supreme confidence in himself.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/jenkins/article/Warriors-contain-Raptors-Kawhi-Leonard-but-13908766.php

Siakam before Game 1 in the playoffs:
18.7pts 7 rbs 2.4ast 1.2 stl 0.7blk 1.3TOs (46/29/76%)
Siakam Regular season:
16.9pts 6.9rbs 3.1ast 0.9stl 0.7blk 1.9TOs (55/37/79%)

Let alone being one of the best defenders in the WHOLE playoffs. Disrespect. 

 

Basically, in summary, we just want people to be nicer:

 

 

That trash talk was absolutely vicious.  I'm surprised they didn't bleep some of it out.

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BREAKING NEWS: Team's fan insists his team is disrespected.

NEXT BREAKING NEWS:

Expect Raptors fans will be mad that people talk about this.

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14 minutes ago, Pyschout said:

BREAKING NEWS: Team's fan insists his team is disrespected.

NEXT BREAKING NEWS:

Expect Raptors fans will be mad that people talk about this.

323 haters and counting...

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Posted (edited)

if Raptors want to be respected, they have to face at least 1 game in these finals against warriors at close to full strength(no looney no matter what, but durant and thompson at least play for most of the game), otherwise there will always be unfullfilled feel to it. lol. But that's how it is in the world of nba.

 

As for that part share owner of warriors being fined $500k, you have to remember that just because nba fines him he doesnt have to actually pay, if he wants he can liquidate all his nba related assets fast and then refuse to pay drag it out in civil courts, and most likely avoid paying it for years.

Edited by DJSatane
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3 hours ago, DJSatane said:

if Raptors want to be respected, they have to face at least 1 game in these finals against warriors at close to full strength(no looney no matter what, but durant and thompson at least play for most of the game), otherwise there will always be unfullfilled feel to it. lol. But that's how it is in the world of nba. 

 

Using same logic, if Warriors want to be respected they need to win at least one title playing against an opponent at close to full strength

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5 hours ago, DJSatane said:

if Raptors want to be respected, they have to face at least 1 game in these finals against warriors at close to full strength(no looney no matter what, but durant and thompson at least play for most of the game), otherwise there will always be unfullfilled feel to it. lol. But that's how it is in the world of nba.

If the Raptors win...WHO CARES!? People can rant and rave all they want, if they win they get rings, they get the banner and it'll always say: NBA Champions 2019: Toronto Raptors. People forgot pretty quick about Cavs being decimated against the Warriors didn't they?

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16 hours ago, Jake the snake said:

The reason i listed all the warriors talent from last nights game is because there is just an endless stream of nauseating discussion about excuses for the Warriors and their injuries.

 

I think this just boils down to perception and fandom.  If you don't think the team missing 3 of their 7 most important players (one arguably being their best player) was the biggest story line in that game and should be discussed as such, then I don't know what else to tell you.  Citing KD, Klay, and Looney in their loss is not an excuse.  Its reality.  Just like if the Raptors were missing Kawhi, Lowry, and Ibaka and they lost, mentioning that off the top wouldn't be an excuse either.

Regarding Simmons, Raptors hate is not his shtick.  Celtics homerism, Lakers/Kobe/Lebron hate, that is his shtick.  When he said we should start talking about the Raptors now, that spawns more from the previous complaints him and Russillo get that all they talk about is the Celtics more than an acknowledgment of some "Raptors hate." 

And Simmons likes to look at games more from a historical perspective, so Curry trying to carry an injury-riddled team is always going to be something he navigates toward first and why he discusses the Raptors being an unlikely champion against like it or not a historical team that has been to 5 straight finals and has won 3 out of 4.  And btw, is that view wrong?  Beating a historical team with their resume, that is not an unlikely upset victory for anyone in the league right now?

That Siakam quote really symbolizes what is happening here for me.  You took one phrase in the midst of an overall compliment of Siakam and his impact/skills, and perceived that as just disrespect.  You cited numbers to back it up which anyway show his up and down play this postseason - 2 more points on lower shooting splits.  I perceive this as just reporting on his ascension into stardom. And I don't think the writer was talking about just this postseason anyway. He was speaking on Siakam's postseason in general - last year and this year. 

You may think of Windhorst as a hack, fair enough, I think of him as a Lebron shill.  But he has reputable reporters on the podcast with him, and they all praised Toronto.  Open Floor praised the Raptors, and if anyone has a Raptors hate shtick, its Ben Golliver (that has been the joke on there for years).  Lowe has praised Siakam all year as the leader of his bandwagon and praised the Raptors yet again on his podcast yesterday, but yet you say he has just given "some credit" to the Raptors?  What more can he do?  What more can any of these reporters do?  That is why I think this just boils down to perception and fandom because anything less than fawning over them 24/7 it just seems like its not enough praise.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

 

Look again, I don't want this to turn into anything its not (it's my Canadian half speaking up here) and I'm enjoying the banter. It's fun and civilised, I appreciate it!

1) There is a big difference between disrespect and hate. I think you know that as well as I do. Simmons doesn't hate the Raptors he just mocks them for being a "little league team". I get it, I actually like Simmons because he has a good sense of humour, still talks some absolute rubbish too and an obvious homer to a ridiculous extent (but that's his thing), but he loves to throw a little disrespect the Raptors in hopes he can keep them down and elevate his Celtics. He hates the Lakers because they have the most titles along side the Celtics.

2) If the Raptors were missing Kawhi, and Lowry say the media wouldn't give a crap because it would be like "didn't matter anyway, no way they could beat the Warriors" and you know it. I mean listen to that way the shock jocks talk about the hypothetical "if KD and Klay were fit"...to quote Stephen A. Smith "Oh don't worry about it, don't you worry about it [it's no question GSW would win]". That's disrespect, because it's a question that can ONLY be answered IF they were fit and just saying no chance to the raptors is BS. They beat them with KD going for 50+ and without Kawhi this year (sure it's just the regular season, but it's something), and they are the team that MADE the NBA finals. These same guys were talking about how the Bucks could give it to GSW with or without KD...is that consistency.

3) Siakam, I can see how I may have taken that quote out of context a bit, but again it's been the same story all year. How many times can the same thing be re-written? I guess a lot with this media circus.

4) Zac Lowe I said he give the raptors some credit. No problems with him. He's one of the best in the business. Mad respect.

5) Colin Cowardherd today: "Lowry is like James Harden without talent, so annoying...". Where is James Harden? How many 23, 9 and 4 with 5 threes and 50% shooting games has he put up in the NBA finals? ZERO! Yeah that is borderline moving from disrespect to hate. I know you'll say those types aren't real journo's, but like I said before that IS the media. Way more people listen to people like him than Zac lowe. That is the MAINSTREAM media and that is where most of the disrespect stems from.

6) There is this whole "if the Raptors win, should it come with an asterix" narrative making the rounds across the media today, because they're all getting scared their darlings might not win now so they need some excuses. I'm embarrassed for anyone that suggests that...

7) Finally Windhorst is a hack. Nothing more nothing less. LeBron puppet. 

Edited by Jake the snake

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10 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

 

Look again, I don't want this to turn into anything its not (it's my Canadian half speaking up here) and I'm enjoying the banter. It's fun and civilised, I appreciate it!

1) There is a big difference between disrespect and hate. I think you know that as well as I do. Simmons doesn't hate the Raptors he just mocks them for being a "little league team". I get it, I actually like Simmons because he has a good sense of humour, still talks some absolute rubbish too and an obvious homer to a ridiculous extent (but that's his thing), but he loves to throw a little disrespect the Raptors in hopes he can keep them down and elevate his Celtics. He hates the Lakers because they have the most titles along side the Celtics.

2) If the Raptors were missing Kawhi, and Lowry say the media wouldn't give a crap because it would be like "didn't matter anyway, no way they could beat the Warriors" and you know it. I mean listen to that way the shock jocks talk about the hypothetical "if KD and Klay were fit"...to quote Stephen A. Smith "Oh don't worry about it, don't you worry about it [it's no question GSW would win]". That's disrespect, because it's a question that can ONLY be answered IF they were fit and just saying no chance to the raptors is BS. They beat them with KD going for 50+ and without Kawhi this year (sure it's just the regular season, but it's something), and they are the team that MADE the NBA finals. These same guys were talking about how the Bucks could give it to GSW with or without KD...is that consistency.

3) Siakam, I can see how I may have taken that quote out of context a bit, but again it's been the same story all year. How many times can the same thing be re-written? I guess a lot with this media circus.

4) Zac Lowe I said he give the raptors some credit. No problems with him. He's one of the best in the business. Mad respect.

5) Colin Cowardherd today: "Lowry is like James Harden without talent, so annoying...". Where is James Harden? How many 23, 9 and 4 with 5 threes and 50% shooting games has he put up in the NBA finals? ZERO! Yeah that is borderline moving from disrespect to hate. I know you'll say those types aren't real journo's, but like I said before that IS the media. Way more people listen to people like him than Zac lowe. That is the MAINSTREAM media and that is where most of the disrespect stems from.

6) There is this whole "if the Raptors win, should it come with an asterix" narrative making the rounds across the media today, because they're all getting scared their darlings might not win now so they need some excuses. I'm embarrassed for anyone that suggests that...

7) Finally Windhorst is a hack. Nothing more nothing less. LeBron puppet. 

Part of the problem is that all of those guys are shock jocks.  There are three basic types of people who talk basketball: shock jocks, fans, and analysts.  But most of the self-proclaimed analysts are really shock jocks, just going based on what they feel, with little statistical analysis.  Sprinkle in a little hyperbole...uh I mean personality...and that's what sells.  Toronto is in Canada and the Warriors are in the U.S...the Raptors were never going to get more attention in the U.S. or by the MSM.  That's why the Knicks and the Lakers get so much ******** attention when they haven't been relevant in a decade.  It's simple demographics.   

 

The true analysts are people that set the opening line at sportsbooks.  They set the opening line at the Raptors being a small underdog but adjusted it to them being a favorite before they opened betting and after they reports of injuries were made public.  They favored the Raptors.  Once betting opens it is no longer about analysis, they simply adjust the line based on the betting public.  

 

The Raptors have the best two-way player in the world atm in Kawhi.  Additionally, the Warriors biggest weakness is in the frontcourt and the Raptors have Pascal, Serge, Marc.  All of those guys can stretch the four and play defense, ideal for the modern era.  Even were the Warriors healthy the Raptors would have an advantage in the front court.  IMO the "X" factor is the Raptors backcourt.  Lowry is around a top 30 player but he does it by being elite 1/3 of the time, dog s--- 1/3 of the time, and injured 1/3 of the time.  People pejoratively use the term "playoff Lowry" to illustrate how bad he is at times.  He sucked in game one versus Orlando, for example, and that's the only game the Magic won.  Danny Green broke the record for most threes in the finals and when he gets hot it's very difficult for the opposing team to win.  Plus, he is a good defender.  But he is often invisible.  Finally, I remember Vanfleet from his Wichita State days bc those guys won me a bracket, and he's been good on both ends.  Even without OG they are legitimately 7 deep without giving up anything.  Ie they have 7 guys who would be starters on other teams and idk if any other team in the playoffs can say that.  Even prior to the Warriors injuries I had the series going to 7 games and if it does go to 7 with the Raptors at home in their first ever finals...it's going to be one helluva game either way!

 

Meanwhile, the core of the Warriors are the Splash Bros plus Draymond.  Durant is arguably the best offensive player in the world but he's a relatively new addition.  Cousins was an experiment and he was injured most of the season, played a little while, and got reinjured.  I'm not even counting him in the analysis.  But to lose BOTH Looney and Cousins to be restricted in minutes is a big blow.  Losing Durant and Klay means they lost half of their core.  One would be an idiot to think Curry, Livingston, Iggy, Green, and Cousins/Bogut could beat a fully stocked Raptors team.  With Klay back they at least have a chance but Kawhi can negate one of the two splash bros and the rest of the team will have to step up.

 

This game is do or die for the Warriors.  Few teams have come back from down 1-3.  Even if the Warriors win then it simply becomes a best of three series with the Raptors having home court.  So even if the Warriors win this game I'd still peg them as underdogs to win the series.  I'd probably consider it somewhere around 65/35 in favor of the Raptors at this point.

 

Back to your original point.  Maybe the Raptors aren't getting enough attention.  But they never were going to.  Even if they win they still won't.  The MSM in the U.S. isn't going to favor a Canadian based team.  I wouldn't let that bother you.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

 

Yeah I absolutely agree with nearly everything you said. Shock jock types are tools that play on things like stacking big markets and nationalism and make this an us vs them thing when it's just meant to be two teams in the NBA. But us Canadians play into that too by letting that annoy us and that is why there is the whole #WeTheNorth thing..."if that's what you want it to be about then that's what we'll make it!" Normally, I just tune it out, but the blanket coverage of these BS narratives at times get a little frustrating. The rest you've said is spot on expect I think you're buying a bit too much hype on the whole "playoff Lowry" thing. He has been nothing short of OUTSTANDING in these playoffs including the last game. The numbers will show you exactly that. Since the Miami Heat series in '15/16 he has been a beast in the playoffs. The only thing now that people talk about "Playoff Lowry" should be him being a really good player. He's doing what he should have always been doing now, 2a or 2b to a superstar. In that role you won't find many better point guards in the league and his stats don't even show his intangibles that make him a fan favourite and so effective when he's on the floor (look at plus/minus metrics, deflections, charges, loose ball recoveries - Lowry near the top in ALL).

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45 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

6) There is this whole "if the Raptors win, should it come with an asterix" narrative making the rounds across the media today, because they're all getting scared their darlings might not win now so they need some excuses. I'm embarrassed for anyone that suggests that...

 

To bottom line this, again, I just think this comes down to perception and fandom because I don't think the Warriors winning is something the media as a whole is desperately rooting for as their "darlings."  When you have 4 future hall-of-famers, 2 borderline hall-of-famers on a team that has been to 5 straight finals and won 3 out of 4, they are naturally going to be viewed as a juggernaut and the favorites and discussed in that context against anyone right now in the league. The Raptors are really good, and people know it, but ultimately its their first finals.  Only natural to come into the series as the underdog in this context.

I didn't hear too many reputable people in the media giving the Raptors no chance.  However fair or unfair to fans of other teams, but overall its realistic prognostication to view or talk about anyone right now as the underdogs against a team like that though.  Its not disrespect or hate on the opponent, and its not slighting any team to think going into the series they would lose to a healthy Warriors team.  Just like back in 2004, it was not unrealistic to think the Pistons were going to lose to the Lakers going into that series.  That was also why Simmons cited that team yesterday. 

Its unfortunate that injuries have happened. For me though, a win is a win, so if the Raptors end up winning it all, credit should be given regardless.  But btw, the same "asterisk win" talk happened to the so-called "darling" Warriors right after they beat the Cavs the first time.  What do you think fueled their 73 win season the following year?  The "luck" talk of them only beating teams with injuries in the playoffs.  They felt disrespected and came out swinging.  The reason that narrative is not there as much for them anymore is because of what they have accomplished since then.  It just is what it is.

  

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

Yeah I absolutely agree with nearly everything you said. Shock jock types are tools that play on things like stacking big markets and nationalism and make this an us vs them thing when it's just meant to be two teams in the NBA. But us Canadians play into that too by letting that annoy us and that is why there is the whole #WeTheNorth thing..."if that's what you want it to be about then that's what we'll make it!" Normally, I just tune it out, but the blanket coverage of these BS narratives at times get a little frustrating. The rest you've said is spot on expect I think you're buying a bit too much hype on the whole "playoff Lowry" thing. He has been nothing short of OUTSTANDING in these playoffs including the last game. The numbers will show you exactly that. Since the Miami Heat series in '15/16 he has been a beast in the playoffs. The only thing now that people talk about "Playoff Lowry" should be him being a really good player. He's doing what he should have always been doing now, 2a or 2b to a superstar. In that role you won't find many better point guards in the league and his stats don't even show his intangibles that make him a fan favourite and so effective when he's on the floor (look at plus/minus metrics, deflections, charges, loose ball recoveries - Lowry near the top in ALL).

I only bring up Lowry to show that he can be an X factor.  He was poor the first game against Orlando and the Raptors lost.  Since then he's mostly been good.  The first two games against the Warriors he was weak and they split 1-1.  The third game he was great and the Raptors crushed them.  It seems as if when Lowry plays poorly the Raptors still have a chance and when he plays well they crush the opposition.  I think the play of FVF and Lowry are the biggest X factors.  Kawhi has a title and most people know he's generally a top 5 player and probably the best player atm.  He's a known entity.  But if Lowry can play his A game not only will the Raptors win but he will shed the "playoff Lowry" stigma.  As much as I like Steph, I like rooting for the underdogs more.  I'm just hoping for a good series.  I think if it goes to 7 and the Raptors win a close one then it will become an instant classic.  I'm rooting for that. 

Edited by StifleTower2
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@Jake the snake

 

The other thing is that you have to think about how the Raptors got here.  Before the playoffs began looking at them I thought they were the most complete team in the east.  I prefer Kawhi over Giannis bc Giannis has no long range jump shot, is a poor FT shooter, and is less experienced.  Outside of their stars I also thought Toronto was the deepest team as well. Gasol was a bigger signing than people realize and I think getting Danny Green in the Kawhi trade was also huge.  Some people think Green was a throw-in but imagine this team without Green/Gasol. 

 

I didn't give Philly much thought...tbh I probably underrated them.  I underrated them like most people underrate the Raptors.  Then that Philly series was as close as it gets, literally going down to a last second shot.  That series was 51/49, could have gone either way.

 

Then they were down 2-0 against the Bucks and I read that something like 80% of teams down 2-0 lose the series.

 

It's not unreasonable to think that a team which narrowly averted disaster so many times wouldn't be favored against one of the most talented teams ever (on paper at least).  Then you do a little digging and you realize the Raptors can turn this thing into a dog fight with their size and defense.  If it goes to 7 they will probably win.  But again I understand why the Warriors get more attention.

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41 minutes ago, littlesamtung said:

Looney has to play through a fractured shoulder means they sense the crisis.

Yup.  It's do or die.  They can't go down 1-3 with 2 of the final three in Toronto.

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