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Unwritten Rules, Joe West, Tim Anderson, etc. Thread

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5 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

So do hitters have the right to throw projectiles at pitchers if they “show them up”? Shooting arrows, stare downs, pumping fist excessively...why don’t these things deserve bat to the ribs? 

 

Whether you think he should retaliate or not, my overarching point is that Keller had every right to be upset over what Anderson did. 

Something that perplexes me is why Anderson did that in the first place. It was a mid-April game between two teams going nowhere. I have to figure he and Keller must have some history somewhere. 

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If the new blood wants a new game, my idea is: hire Vince McMahon and create and new league, call it the UBL, ultimate baseball league, or a name voted on by those that are interested,, and set it up as a show if you want, to attract like minded viewers, and let them play...but you trying to make everyone accept your version by changing this game is kinda the same as you saying the old schoolers are forcing our game down your throats by keeping it as it's been for over a century, there's room for both, create your version and play on, everyone can be happy, no? 

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4 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Baseball has always been known as a game of inches. 

A batter gets hit by a ball, it has been happening for years.

Would it make you happy if the batter hit the ball off a tee? 

 

Image result for sigh gif

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Flyman75 said:

 

Whether you think he should retaliate or not, my overarching point is that Keller had every right to be upset over what Anderson did. 

Something that perplexes me is why Anderson did that in the first place. It was a mid-April game between two teams going nowhere. I have to figure he and Keller must have some history somewhere. 

 

I think the point a lot of people are making is that Anderson could have reacted that way simply because he was pumped he got ino one and that Keller should not take it personally. Some even feel that reaction adds to the enjoyment of the game. 

I get where you are coming from, but I can see both sides to it. Celebrating vs showing up is a pretty subjective line. 

Edited by treat88
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1 minute ago, treat88 said:

 

I think the point a lot of people are making is that Anderson could have reacted that way simply because he was pumped he got ino one and that Keller should not take it personally. Some even feel that reaction adds to the enjoyment of the game. 

I get where you are coming from, but I can see both sides to it. 

 

I see both sides, too. My very first statement in this thread was that I’m not mad at Anderson. 

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Posted (edited)

@JeffPassan

·

2h

"During the benches-clearing incident, White Sox shortstop Tim Anderson called Royals pitcher Brad Keller a "weak-a** f---ing n-word," sources tell ESPN. Anderson, who was hit by a Keller pitch one at-bat after he hit a home run and flipped his bat, was suspended for one game."

 

So Tim got suspended for using a word which in that scenario really isn't a racial slur, but the MLB deemed it as such. Basically called him a weak a** dude.

So not only is the MLB allowing Joe West to win, crushing the swagger of a bat flip, buttttt they're also culturally incompetent.

BRB going to to buy a Tim Anderson jersey.

Edited by High&Inside
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1 minute ago, Flyman75 said:

 

I see both sides, too. My very first statement in this thread was that I’m not mad at Anderson. 

 

I took your comment of Anderson and Keller must have a history to imply that you thought Anderson was doing something specifically directed at Keller vs simply celebrating. If I misread that, my mistake. 

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1 minute ago, High&Inside said:

@JeffPassan

·

2h

"During the benches-clearing incident, White Sox shortstop Tim Anderson called Royals pitcher Brad Keller a "weak-a** f---ing n-word," sources tell ESPN. Anderson, who was hit by a Keller pitch one at-bat after he hit a home run and flipped his bat, was suspended for one game."

 

So Tim got suspended for using a word which in that scenario really isn't a racial slur, but the MLB deemed it as such.

So not only is the MLB allowing Joe West to win, crushing the swagger of a bat flip, buttttt they're also culturally incompetent.

BRB going to to buy a Tim Anderson jersey.

 

As seen in the comments section of deadspin

MLB - “We’re totally against anything racist, suspensions all around!”

Also MLB - “This week on Sunday Night Baseball: Braves at Indians!”

 

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Just now, treat88 said:

 

I took your comment of Anderson and Keller must have a history to imply that you thought Anderson was doing something specifically directed at Keller vs simply celebrating. If I misread that, my mistake. 

 

Oh my bad. I misunderstood. I see both sides of this...Anderson being pumped and Keller being ticked. But, I do wonder if there is history between the two because he was so demonstrative in his flip. It wasn’t a game-winner, didn't clinch anything, nothing like that. Just struck me as odd. Maybe he was just super pumped. 

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Would be epic if a batter that struck out a couple times decided to "retaliate" and chuck his bat directly into the pitchers ribs and only gets a one game suspension since that's what MLB thinks a pitcher should get for hitting a batter purposely. Would a batter only get a one game suspension? Of course not probably 10 games plus because MLB is old and tired.

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1 minute ago, sjs1890 said:

Would be epic if a batter that struck out a couple times decided to "retaliate" and chuck his bat directly into the pitchers ribs and only gets a one game suspension since that's what MLB thinks a pitcher should get for hitting a batter purposely. Would a batter only get a one game suspension? Of course not probably 10 games plus because MLB is old and tired.

 

That would be one hell of an amazing throw of a bat. Lol. 

The Keller/Anderson call is pretty easy but there are lots of HBPs that are far more questionable and most are unintentional. With big money, unions, and lawyers involved I get why it's a difficult thing to police. 

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5 minutes ago, sjs1890 said:

Would be epic if a batter that struck out a couple times decided to "retaliate" and chuck his bat directly into the pitchers ribs and only gets a one game suspension since that's what MLB thinks a pitcher should get for hitting a batter purposely. Would a batter only get a one game suspension? Of course not probably 10 games plus because MLB is old and tired.

 

And the second we complain about it, shakestreet will be asking if we want pitching machines out there

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1 hour ago, treat88 said:

 

In general, and at all non professional levels I agree.

At the pro level, I would amend that to read with the intention of injuring rather than hitting. 

I do think there are times, and I fully expect some backlash to this sentiment, where intentionally hitting a guy is acceptable and even makes sense if done appropriately. 

I don't think it's acceptable as payback for a HR or any subsequent celebration.  Keller was 100% in the wrong. 

 

My issue is, how (as a pitcher) are you going to be CERTAIN that you won't injure someone when you try to hit them?

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49 minutes ago, High&Inside said:

@JeffPassan

·

2h

"During the benches-clearing incident, White Sox shortstop Tim Anderson called Royals pitcher Brad Keller a "weak-a** f---ing n-word," sources tell ESPN. Anderson, who was hit by a Keller pitch one at-bat after he hit a home run and flipped his bat, was suspended for one game."

 

So Tim got suspended for using a word which in that scenario really isn't a racial slur, but the MLB deemed it as such. Basically called him a weak a** dude.

So not only is the MLB allowing Joe West to win, crushing the swagger of a bat flip, buttttt they're also culturally incompetent.

BRB going to to buy a Tim Anderson jersey.

You shouldn't be suspended for calling someone a Nerd IMO

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1 hour ago, Flyman75 said:

 

No it’s cool. Cmilne said Keller should have thrown a better pitch if he didn’t want Anderson to hit a HR off him. I said it was an impractical statement because every pitcher gives up HRs. Tao responded about a lack of execution. And then I made that statement. So my point was that a pitcher shouldn’t get mad at himself for a HR being hit, because every pitcher gives them up, even on perfect pitches...but Keller had a right to be mad at Anderson for the bat flip. Hope that makes sense, lol. 

 

Gotcha, yes makes sense.

 

No competitor likes to be "shown up", but you have to grin and bear it and or strike him out next time (or do your best to). Agree Keller had a right to be mad, don't agree he should then try to hit him with a pitch.

 

Remember the football game where ODB and Josh Norman were going at it? In that scenario, let's hypothetically say that ODB makes a great play and burns Norman for a TD. ODB then taunts him and shows off. Norman is pissed, and then the next chance he gets and takes a full head of steam and blind side cheap shots him potentially breaking ODB's neck and killing him or ruining his career. What say you? Good for Norman, he was mad and rightfully so for being shown up by ODB. Or wait, is this only a baseball thing? Oh yeah, unwritten rules and all...(this wasn't necessary geared towards you @Flyman75, just thinking out loud).

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1 hour ago, Flyman75 said:

 

Whether you think he should retaliate or not, my overarching point is that Keller had every right to be upset over what Anderson did. 

Something that perplexes me is why Anderson did that in the first place. It was a mid-April game between two teams going nowhere. I have to figure he and Keller must have some history somewhere. 

He can be upset all he wants. Excusing throwing a 90 MPH fastball at a guy is another thing altogether, yet something you and others defend.

Which is why I asked the question you didn’t answer. If a guy threw his bat at Fernando Rodney’s hip and hit him in the leg, would your response be:

“Hey, shoot arrows all you want, but be ready for the consequences. I get why the batter is mad. Rodney is showing him up. This is just players policing themselves.” 

So don’t twist things around and come back to your overarching point. Would that be acceptable or not?

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1 hour ago, FISH ON said:

If the new blood wants a new game, my idea is: hire Vince McMahon and create and new league, call it the UBL, ultimate baseball league, or a name voted on by those that are interested,, and set it up as a show if you want, to attract like minded viewers, and let them play...but you trying to make everyone accept your version by changing this game is kinda the same as you saying the old schoolers are forcing our game down your throats by keeping it as it's been for over a century, there's room for both, create your version and play on, everyone can be happy, no? 

This is the usual arguement by this side of the fence.  And it's complete revisionist history.  Baseball USED to have emotion.  By fans and players.  This demure act like you've been here nonsense started in the 70s as a narrative,  and wasn't anymore true then than it is now.  It was more extreme in the early 1900s than it even is now.  To declare its been this way for a century is patently false.  

 

This is also why i love watching Asian culture ball.  Those fans are nuts! 

 

"Baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch" - Ty Cobb

 

This isn't boy scout training.  Or a day at the library.  And it never really has been.  

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13 minutes ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

My issue is, how (as a pitcher) are you going to be CERTAIN that you won't injure someone when you try to hit them?

 

You can't. I fully acknowledge that.

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Pitchers aren't topping out at 70-85 mph like in 1900. 

 

I played a lot of baseball but never faced a pitcher throwing harder than about 90-91 mph, so I can't relate to 95-100+ coming at me from less than 90'.

 

Try to imagine your kid's life/health and/or his livelihood being taken away over a stupid pride thing like this. If you still agree with pitchers purposely trying to hit batters, you might be a sociopath.

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Keller should have been suspended for a month and made to apologize to Tim Anderson.  This stupid, childish, ego tripping and possible career or even life endangering behavior from pitchers has to stop.  I'm sick of it.

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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Keller should have been suspended for a month and made to apologize to Tim Anderson.  This stupid, childish, ego tripping and possible career or even life endangering behavior from pitchers has to stop.  I'm sick of it.

People say these kind of statements are being dramatic. Honestly... maybe just a bit. But they're honest. And they're true: THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. I don't care if calling pitching at a guy "Assault" is unfair. It's how I want to characterize the argument because we need to cut this out of the game root and stem. Harsh as hell punishments until people wise up and figure out that this childish bull**** is not good for out game. It makes me sick. But more importantly, I think it makes people who don't care about the sport sick. And I think some of thost people would at least be potentially amicable to being fans of this sport if they didn't have to watch some childish bull****. 

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The irony is that baseball of the major competitive sports is the one with the least amount of contact (football, basketball, hockey, even soccer). It should be the easiest to play in a gentlemanly manner.

 

-Don't intentionally throw at guys.

-Don't dive feet first into vulnerable players' ankles

-Don't spear the catcher

 

I think, if I were a baseball player, I could manage these rules and still get by.

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8 minutes ago, taobball said:

People say these kind of statements are being dramatic. Honestly... maybe just a bit. But they're honest. And they're true: THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. I don't care if calling pitching at a guy "Assault" is unfair. It's how I want to characterize the argument because we need to cut this out of the game root and stem. Harsh as hell punishments until people wise up and figure out that this childish bull**** is not good for out game. It makes me sick. But more importantly, I think it makes people who don't care about the sport sick. And I think some of thost people would at least be potentially amicable to being fans of this sport if they didn't have to watch some childish bull****. 

I'd be giving this and other posts here like this a thumbs up but I ran out of thumbs up allotments before I got to page three here.

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12 minutes ago, taobball said:

People say these kind of statements are being dramatic. Honestly... maybe just a bit. But they're honest. And they're true: THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. I don't care if calling pitching at a guy "Assault" is unfair. It's how I want to characterize the argument because we need to cut this out of the game root and stem. Harsh as hell punishments until people wise up and figure out that this childish bull**** is not good for out game. It makes me sick. But more importantly, I think it makes people who don't care about the sport sick. And I think some of thost people would at least be potentially amicable to being fans of this sport if they didn't have to watch some childish bull****. 

I’m not trying to give my .02 on this particular instance, or really this topic in general, but is there any evidence to back up a correlation between intentional HBP and viewership or fan base declining?  I’m honestly just curious as I don’t follow that sort of stuff too closely.

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