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Miles Sanders 2019 Outlook

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8 hours ago, euphonicjamz said:

I just don't know what to do with this guy... He's frustrating to own because of his usage, and bc I bought into the preseason hype - drafting him higher than I should have.  Had I flexed him this week, I'd already have secured a victory, but he's cost me other weeks.  Unless Howard misses time, he's just too big of a gamble, and I'm probably going to try to sell as high as I possibly can this week.

Can’t imagine like you can sell for that much?  Seems like a better hold and wait and maybe hope for a second half breakout once their offense is fully healthy.

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Traded sanders away for Sutton in one league (devante Adams owner) I think sanders best weeks are ahead of him. Howard had his fluke game but otherwise offers very little. Deuce will lean towards sanders in the coming weeks

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1 hour ago, jeremyt7 said:

Traded sanders away for Sutton in one league (devante Adams owner) I think sanders best weeks are ahead of him. Howard had his fluke game but otherwise offers very little. Deuce will lean towards sanders in the coming weeks

I doubt it. He has flex value in PPR leagues, but I don't see him overcoming his running woes this season. He is a talented pass catcher right now and doesn't have the skill set to unseat Howard.

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5 hours ago, devaster said:

I doubt it. He has flex value in PPR leagues, but I don't see him overcoming his running woes this season. He is a talented pass catcher right now and doesn't have the skill set to unseat Howard.

 

He is an excellent receiver and excels at pass blocking too which are the two things that hold RBs back from producing the most. If Howard starts to lose effectiveness at all it's go time

Edited by sportsfreak2744

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10 hours ago, devaster said:

I doubt it. He has flex value in PPR leagues, but I don't see him overcoming his running woes this season. He is a talented pass catcher right now and doesn't have the skill set to unseat Howard.

 

When Howard flunks out this week they’ll turn to sanders and give him carries to get him going!

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Im a die-hard Cowboys fan and if Philly is smart they will run the ball over and over this Sunday.  The Cowboys are not good at stopping the run.  The front four has been very disappointing....so called "Hot Boyz" lol.  

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1 hour ago, jeremyt7 said:

 

When Howard flunks out this week they’ll turn to sanders and give him carries to get him going!

His value has been almost entirely tied to catching wheel routes.  Great sign for his pass catching upside, but doesn't change the fact that he looks like Reggie Bush running the ball.  I don't see him replacing Howard all year.  Howard is clearly the butter runner.

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9 hours ago, Magoo said:

His value has been almost entirely tied to catching wheel routes.  Great sign for his pass catching upside, but doesn't change the fact that he looks like Reggie Bush running the ball.  I don't see him replacing Howard all year.  Howard is clearly the butter runner.

 

Thats the thing he doesn’t really get a chance to gain a rhythm running the ball. Outside of that fluky game Howard had the other week when they’ve had the same amount of carries sanders output has been very close if not better. So if you give him the carries he’ll put the same output PLUS the pass catching ability that equals a much more complete back. They want to win games? Sanders Needs to be featured much more. Howard gives you no upside. When he’s in they know it’s a run, he’s so one dimensional like a Blount 

Edited by jeremyt7
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40 minutes ago, jeremyt7 said:

 

Thats the thing he doesn’t really get a chance to gain a rhythm running the ball. Outside of that fluky game Howard had the other week when they’ve had the same amount of carries sanders output has been very close if not better. So if you give him the carries he’ll put the same output PLUS the pass catching ability that equals a much more complete back. They want to win games? Sanders Needs to be featured much more. Howard gives you no upside. When he’s in they know it’s a run, he’s so one dimensional like a Blount 

What?! It’s a rhythm issue? Cmon my man, Sanders is close to dead last in the nfl in pff rating year to date for running the football. His inability to find lanes is the reason that Howard has gotten all of these “rhythm” opportunities. Sanders is amazing in pass protection and has been great catching the football. More than likely that remains his role. 
 

I’m a Sanders owner and I hope he gets more touches but you’re just making things up in that post. 

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Yes it’s absolutely a rhythm thing, he gets going and they take him out. It’s not like Howard has been blowing sanders out the water, outside of that fluke game few weeks back. When Howard and Sanders are given around the same amount of carries the rushing numbers results are relatively the same. This is their numbers strictly rushing. 

                    Sanders rushing  numbers                                    Howard’s rushing numbers 

week 1                11 rush 25 yards                           Week 1              6 rush 44 yards

week 2                10 rush 28 yards                           Week 2             8 rush 18 yards 

week 3                13 rush 53 yards                           Week 3            11 rush 37 yards 

week 4                11 rush 72 yards                           Week 4            15 rush 87 yards

week 5                 9 rush 15 yards                            Week 5            13 rush 62 yards 

week 6                 3 rush 6 yards                              Week 6            13 rush 49 yards

As you can see when touches are close the output isn’t far from one another, Howard has a few decent games but not much better. First few weeks sanders wasn’t t rushing well and that was expected for a rookie getting his feet wet. 

As a coach how do you justify putting the lower ceiling back out there? Not only are the rushing numbers similar but add the fact that Sanders is a better pass protector and on top of that add the fact that Sanders is a far superior pass catcher. I just don’t see how you keep Sanders off the field he’s growing into a complete back each week, by giving Howard the touches you’re hampering Sanders growth. Sanders will give you chunk yardage rushing and pass catching while Howard is a proven plodder. All I’m saying is Sanders development is key for the teams success, not Howard.

Edited by jeremyt7

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All I’m trying to get at is, if the rushing yards are similar when given same amount of carries why not go with the back who checks off the other two boxes(pass protection and pass catching) as well?

Edited by jeremyt7
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41 minutes ago, jeremyt7 said:

Yes it’s absolutely a rhythm thing, he gets going and they take him out. It’s not like Howard has been blowing sanders out the water, outside of that fluke game few weeks back. When Howard and Sanders are given around the same amount of carries the rushing numbers results are relatively the same. This is their numbers strictly rushing. 

                    Sanders rushing  numbers                                    Howard’s rushing numbers 

week 1                11 rush 25 yards                           Week 1              6 rush 44 yards

week 2                10 rush 28 yards                           Week 2             8 rush 18 yards 

week 3                13 rush 53 yards                           Week 3            11 rush 37 yards 

week 4                11 rush 72 yards                           Week 4            15 rush 87 yards

week 5                 9 rush 15 yards                            Week 5            13 rush 62 yards 

week 6                 3 rush 6 yards                              Week 6            13 rush 49 yards

As you can see when touches are close the output isn’t far from one another, Howard has a few decent games but not much better. First few weeks sanders wasn’t t rushing well and that was expected for a rookie getting his feet wet. 

As a coach how do you justify putting the lower ceiling back out there? Not only are the rushing numbers similar but add the fact that Sanders is a better pass protector and on top of that add the fact that Sanders is a far superior pass catcher. I just don’t see how you keep Sanders off the field he’s growing into a complete back each week, by giving Howard the touches you’re hampering Sanders growth. Sanders will give you chunk yardage rushing and pass catching while Howard is a proven plodder. All I’m saying is Sanders development is key for the teams success, not Howard.

That’s all fine and dandy expect for the fact that Howard is far better between the tackles no matter what you say. 

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4 hours ago, jeremyt7 said:

Not only are the rushing numbers similar but add the fact that Sanders is a better pass protector and on top of that add the fact that Sanders is a far superior pass catcher and on top of that Sanders is a far superior fumbler

Fixed it.  You forgot about that very important element.  A lot of teams use multiple backs.  Eagles aren't going to go with 1 workhorse.  Jordan Howard has been a very successful RB in the league, he is not just some plodder.  Howard is much better at hitting the skinny holes between the tackles.   There is room here for both backs to have value.  Sanders is to Howard as Ekeler was to Gordon last season.

Edited by TommyKramer

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2 minutes ago, TommyKramer said:

Fixed it.  You forgot about that very important element.  A lot of teams use multiple backs.  Eagles aren't going to go with 1 workhorse.  Jordan Howard has been a very successful RB in the league, he is not just some plodder.  Howard is much better at hitting the skinny holes between the tackles.   There is room here for both backs to have value.  Sanders is to Howard as Ekeler was to Gordon last season.

 

I don't really agree about the fumbling part unless it continues, but otherwise I think that's a great comparison.

In my opinion. the eyeball test is showing me Sanders isn't quite there yet in terms of making a decision/quick cut and hitting the hole hard particularly in tougher matchups. Both backs are clearly successful in games like v. GB where you could drive a zamboni through the hole the Eagles O-line was opening up. In games with tougher run defenses, around the goal line, trying to punish defenses late in games or when trying to chew up clock to close out a win, Howard is going to be the guy. I think understanding how they want to use these guys plus looking at their recent game scripts (ex versus MIN where the Eagles were getting boat raced) is a pretty good explanation for the trends in snap & carry counts between them.

That is not to say Sanders has no value or won't be a contributing fantasy player. Depending on where he was drafted he probably isn't going to fully return value on his ADP, but at this point in the season you can't let that impact your judgement of players.

It is not to say it's impossible for it to change, but the Eagles clearly prefer to have a rotation at RB and will likely never have a 3 down bellcow approach to their backfield unless injuries or something like that force their hand. From what I have seen so far in watching every second of every Eagle game so far that approach is giving them the best result. Sanders is just not ready to handle the "primary" role in a split backfield.

Maybe that changes as the season goes on, maybe it doesn't, but when and if this offense gets rolling (please come back D-Jax!), I would be perfectly happy with a Miles Sanders who gets 8-12 carries a game plus a bunch of passing work/designed pass plays as a rookie on top of what he might be able to do if Howard goes down.

 

 

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Doesn’t JoHo have the 2nd most rush yards since 2016 when he was a rookie, Sanders isn’t quite that good yet. That includes JoHo being stifled by Nagy last year in Chi Town. Sanders will be a quality RB but I doubt he will ever be top 5 in yards over a 3 year period. 

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5 minutes ago, Krambone said:

Doesn’t JoHo have the 2nd most rush yards since 2016 when he was a rookie, Sanders isn’t quite that good yet. That includes JoHo being stifled by Nagy last year in Chi Town. Sanders will be a quality RB but I doubt he will ever be top 5 in yards over a 3 year period. 

 

First off, who cares about what happened in 2016. I think Demarco Murray had a big year in 2016 also. 

Second, despite everyone acting as if Joho has been just dominating this backfield in production, you want to take a guess which Eagles RB has more total yards through 6 weeks? HiNT: It's not Joho. 

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26 minutes ago, jeremyt7 said:

This will be sanders backfield in a few weeks

This seems contrary to all available evidence.  

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31 minutes ago, jeremyt7 said:

This will be sanders backfield in a few weeks


Main receiver out of the backfield, yes. Don’t really see him getting a huge boost in carries though.

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Sanders is clearly superior in talent.  Once he becomes decisive in taking what's given to him rather than trying to bounce everything outside he will be the lead dog.  Howard is a plodder who happens to excel around the goal line.  He should be the short yardage goal line back and be used to spell Sanders here and there but the snaps need to start tilting more Sanders way. 

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Just now, dorsett33 said:

Sanders is clearly superior in talent.  Once he becomes decisive in taking what's given to him rather than trying to bounce everything outside he will be the lead dog.  Howard is a plodder who happens to excel around the goal line.  He should be the short yardage goal line back and be used to spell Sanders here and there but the snaps need to start tilting more Sanders way. 

As an Eagles fan who has watched every snap, you are dead wrong. Sanders could be the lead back next year. Not this year, sorry Sanders owners. 

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Ive bascially watched every snap as well.....how am I dead wrong?

Howard had one game where he had 3 TD's.  Take that game away and he hasnt done much.  Sanders had a few TD carries taken away because of dumb penalties.  If given the opportunity to be the lead back he will take the job and run with it.  Im sure you will disagree but my opinion after having watched both players throughout their careers.  

Edited by dorsett33

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Just now, dorsett33 said:

Ive bascially watched every snap as well.....how am I dead wrong?

It's not happening this year. Howard has looked far superior in the run game. 

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3 minutes ago, dorsett33 said:

Ive bascially watched every snap as well.....how am I dead wrong?

Howard had one game where he had 3 TD's.  Take that game away and he hasnt done much.  Sanders had a few TD carries taken away because of dumb penalties.  If given the opportunity to be the lead back he will take the job and run with it.  Im sure you will disagree but my opinion after having watched both players throughout their careers.  

Sounds like you've been watching the box scores or just don't know what it takes to be a runner in the NFL. Howard makes all the right reads and breaks tackles for positive gains. Miles isn't there yet. It's quite obvious if you know what you're seeing. 

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