Iron-cock

2019 Rotoworld Mock Real League

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16 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

@DocJ OTC ...

 

 

 

Since the draft date is Monday he may not check back until then. 

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7 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

 

Since the draft date is Monday he may not check back until then. 

Lol, we definitely jumped the clock, the excitement carried us away

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44 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

 

No trading picks. 

 

Why?

 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Winky said:

 

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

Because the league exists as a guide to other users as to where players might go as far as ADP in an actual draft. Also it helps us get ready for our main leagues. Ideally we would provide explanations for who we pick and why.  Originally it was simply a mock draft, but it was converted to a "real league" but the intent is still the same.

Edited by Iron-cock

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27 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

 

 

 

 

Because the league exists as a guide to other users as to where players might go as far as ADP in an actual draft. Also it helps us get ready for our main leagues. Ideally we would provide explanations for who we pick and why.  Originally it was simply a mock draft, but it was converted to a "real league" but the intent is still the same.

 

How do we get into 1 of the "main" leagues?

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1 hour ago, Iron-cock said:

Because the league exists as a guide to other users as to where players might go as far as ADP in an actual draft. Also it helps us get ready for our main leagues. Ideally we would provide explanations for who we pick and why.  Originally it was simply a mock draft, but it was converted to a "real league" but the intent is still the same.

 

Sure, years ago it use to be a guide and years ago it use to be a mock, those days have passed.  Altering who picks 4th or 12th, doesn't alter your preparation, or the ADP of players.  You picking at 4 explaining why you picked <name> instead of me doing the same thing at 4, doesn't remove any explanation, insight, or information about the draft, it's just from a different person, so that's a moot point.  Aside from the fact that barely anyone goes into any detail of the theirs picks anymore.  Maybe for the first few rounds will get a short 'recap' of their first 3-4 picks, and then at the end of the draft a breakdown of their team, but even that's died off in recent years.  The days of being significantly ahead of the casual user here are gone, because the world has caught up.  Information is significantly easier to find, analysis has exponentially improved over just the last couple years, and is so readily available that the gap from "us" to the casual reader has shrinked considerably.

 

The main concern, and 100% valid I'll add, is time.  For this I have a simple idea that may or may not work.
Any pick that is traded, must be completed within the first <x> hours of the clock time.
This is obviously to avoid people waiting 24 hours trying to negotiate and milk every trade possible before they have to pick, when they were online, active, and ready to progress the draft significantly earlier.  So for example...

 

I'm picking at 4.  Normally I would have 24 hours to make that pick.  If I wanted to trade that pick, the trade needs to be completed in the first 8 hours.  Any trades after being on the clock for 8 hours would be void.  Once a trade is made, the person who trades INTO that spot, the clock does NOT reset, and they only have 4 hours (from the trade announcement) to make their pick.  If you were around to make the trade deal, you better be around to make your pick.

 

Alternately, we can expedite it even further, although extremely limiting.  All trades need to be completed prior to ever going on the clock.  While not optimal or as much fun, this would at least allow trades, without ever effecting clock, time, or draft flow.  Also we all know trades would be somewhat rare to begin with, most of us have been here for years and assume there's a decent level of trust built.

 

Worst case scenario, allow us to do behind the scenes trades, and not call it collusion or cheating.  As long as the trade is fair it would still have to pass the normal trade review rules anyways after the draft is complete.

 

At the very least discuss this or vote on it?  The draft hasn't officially started yet, so there's no reason we shouldn't give it consideration.

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52 minutes ago, FFCollusion said:

 

Sure, years ago it use to be a guide and years ago it use to be a mock, those days have passed.  Altering who picks 4th or 12th, doesn't alter your preparation, or the ADP of players.  You picking at 4 explaining why you picked <name> instead of me doing the same thing at 4, doesn't remove any explanation, insight, or information about the draft, it's just from a different person, so that's a moot point.  Aside from the fact that barely anyone goes into any detail of the theirs picks anymore.  Maybe for the first few rounds will get a short 'recap' of their first 3-4 picks, and then at the end of the draft a breakdown of their team, but even that's died off in recent years.  The days of being significantly ahead of the casual user here are gone, because the world has caught up.  Information is significantly easier to find, analysis has exponentially improved over just the last couple years, and is so readily available that the gap from "us" to the casual reader has shrinked considerably.

 

The main concern, and 100% valid I'll add, is time.  For this I have a simple idea that may or may not work.
Any pick that is traded, must be completed within the first <x> hours of the clock time.
This is obviously to avoid people waiting 24 hours trying to negotiate and milk every trade possible before they have to pick, when they were online, active, and ready to progress the draft significantly earlier.  So for example...

 

I'm picking at 4.  Normally I would have 24 hours to make that pick.  If I wanted to trade that pick, the trade needs to be completed in the first 8 hours.  Any trades after being on the clock for 8 hours would be void.  Once a trade is made, the person who trades INTO that spot, the clock does NOT reset, and they only have 4 hours (from the trade announcement) to make their pick.  If you were around to make the trade deal, you better be around to make your pick.

 

Alternately, we can expedite it even further, although extremely limiting.  All trades need to be completed prior to ever going on the clock.  While not optimal or as much fun, this would at least allow trades, without ever effecting clock, time, or draft flow.  Also we all know trades would be somewhat rare to begin with, most of us have been here for years and assume there's a decent level of trust built.

 

Worst case scenario, allow us to do behind the scenes trades, and not call it collusion or cheating.  As long as the trade is fair it would still have to pass the normal trade review rules anyways after the draft is complete.

 

At the very least discuss this or vote on it?  The draft hasn't officially started yet, so there's no reason we shouldn't give it consideration.

 

I think we had a pick trade in 2013. I don't remember the details. So its been done before. Somebody can look through the pages and confirm.

 

I'm against it because it defeats the purpose of the league. None of the money leagues we play have mid-draft pick trading, so this is a pretty useless feature. I only ever did pick trades in a dynasty start-up back in 2012. And it complicates things further with all the time constraints.

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54 minutes ago, FFCollusion said:

 

Sure, years ago it use to be a guide and years ago it use to be a mock, those days have passed.  Altering who picks 4th or 12th, doesn't alter your preparation, or the ADP of players.  You picking at 4 explaining why you picked <name> instead of me doing the same thing at 4, doesn't remove any explanation, insight, or information about the draft, it's just from a different person, so that's a moot point.  Aside from the fact that barely anyone goes into any detail of the theirs picks anymore.  Maybe for the first few rounds will get a short 'recap' of their first 3-4 picks, and then at the end of the draft a breakdown of their team, but even that's died off in recent years.  The days of being significantly ahead of the casual user here are gone, because the world has caught up.  Information is significantly easier to find, analysis has exponentially improved over just the last couple years, and is so readily available that the gap from "us" to the casual reader has shrinked considerably.

 

The main concern, and 100% valid I'll add, is time.  For this I have a simple idea that may or may not work.
Any pick that is traded, must be completed within the first <x> hours of the clock time.
This is obviously to avoid people waiting 24 hours trying to negotiate and milk every trade possible before they have to pick, when they were online, active, and ready to progress the draft significantly earlier.  So for example...

 

I'm picking at 4.  Normally I would have 24 hours to make that pick.  If I wanted to trade that pick, the trade needs to be completed in the first 8 hours.  Any trades after being on the clock for 8 hours would be void.  Once a trade is made, the person who trades INTO that spot, the clock does NOT reset, and they only have 4 hours (from the trade announcement) to make their pick.  If you were around to make the trade deal, you better be around to make your pick.

 

Alternately, we can expedite it even further, although extremely limiting.  All trades need to be completed prior to ever going on the clock.  While not optimal or as much fun, this would at least allow trades, without ever effecting clock, time, or draft flow.  Also we all know trades would be somewhat rare to begin with, most of us have been here for years and assume there's a decent level of trust built.

 

Worst case scenario, allow us to do behind the scenes trades, and not call it collusion or cheating.  As long as the trade is fair it would still have to pass the normal trade review rules anyways after the draft is complete.

 

At the very least discuss this or vote on it?  The draft hasn't officially started yet, so there's no reason we shouldn't give it consideration.

 

Two owners picked so the draft did start, just without the 24 hour clock.

 

Feel free to discuss but I’m not a fan of changing anything until next season.  

 

Since you’ve asked about this before and you seem very interested in it, why didn’t you bring it up first thing this season (or after last season) instead of two picks into the draft?

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12 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

Two owners picked so the draft did start, just without the 24 hour clock.

Feel free to discuss but I’m not a fan of changing anything until next season.  

Since you’ve asked about this before and you seem very interested in it, why didn’t you bring it up first thing this season (or after last season) instead of two picks into the draft?

 

I have no desire to debate semantics.

Draft order was posted 7/11 11:29am

I asked about trading 7/12 4:09pm

Draft was scheduled to begin 7/15 9:00am

First pick was made 7/13 12:51pm

 

Like you admitted, I've brought this up multiple times.  You'll have to ask yourself why you dismissed it and wouldn't give my question any genuine consideration, that was your doing, not mine.  I asked within roughly a day of the draft order announcement which was 3 days prior to scheduled draft start.  If you're asking why I didn't know I wanted to trade out of my spot, before I knew my spot, then I'm unsure how to answer that logically for you.

 

45 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

I'm against it because it defeats the purpose of the league. None of the money leagues we play have mid-draft pick trading, so this is a pretty useless feature.

 

Understandable standpoint.  However I would pose that the ability to move around in a draft will give you a far more accurate and comprehensive outlook on the true value of players, as it forces you to consider far more options, players, and worth of each draft pick, round, and position.  2 Players moving on either side of you, doesn't alter your draft board or player analysis in a vacuum.  Considering how/why people value specific players, tiers, positions, picks, and understanding why they would move in or out of a spot and what that spot is or isn't worth, can be extremely valuable to prepping for any real drafts, and doesn't limit itself to snakes either, as the logic would remain consistent across auctions as well.

 

Not a big deal, but worth a discussion I would hope.  There's not much different between trading during or after the draft is completed.  You're always trading value and assets whether a blank spot or a name is inside the square.

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22 minutes ago, FFCollusion said:

Understandable standpoint.  However I would pose that the ability to move around in a draft will give you a far more accurate and comprehensive outlook on the true value of players, as it forces you to consider far more options, players, and worth of each draft pick, round, and position. 

  

 

It makes little to no difference in a snake draft, as you're doing that anyway. Especially in a 14 team draft. Auctions work better for this purpose. Personally, i have always preferred auctions to snake. You should run a 2nd league with an auction, i would join.

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1 hour ago, FFCollusion said:

 

I have no desire to debate semantics.

Draft order was posted 7/11 11:29am

I asked about trading 7/12 4:09pm

Draft was scheduled to begin 7/15 9:00am

First pick was made 7/13 12:51pm

 

Like you admitted, I've brought this up multiple times.  You'll have to ask yourself why you dismissed it and wouldn't give my question any genuine consideration, that was your doing, not mine.  I asked within roughly a day of the draft order announcement which was 3 days prior to scheduled draft start.  If you're asking why I didn't know I wanted to trade out of my spot, before I knew my spot, then I'm unsure how to answer that logically for you.

 

 

Understandable standpoint.  However I would pose that the ability to move around in a draft will give you a far more accurate and comprehensive outlook on the true value of players, as it forces you to consider far more options, players, and worth of each draft pick, round, and position.  2 Players moving on either side of you, doesn't alter your draft board or player analysis in a vacuum.  Considering how/why people value specific players, tiers, positions, picks, and understanding why they would move in or out of a spot and what that spot is or isn't worth, can be extremely valuable to prepping for any real drafts, and doesn't limit itself to snakes either, as the logic would remain consistent across auctions as well.

 

Not a big deal, but worth a discussion I would hope.  There's not much different between trading during or after the draft is completed.  You're always trading value and assets whether a blank spot or a name is inside the square.

 

I didn’t realize you were only proposing this because you dislike your draft spot this season.  

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Posted (edited)

Meh... any action improves your understanding of ff things.
I am aligned that if we haven't done it before and didn't discuss it before the draft started that we shouldn't do it
Having said that, everything else is straw, man.

Edited by Winky

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It's about that time of year here in a couple weeks.  I sign up for a class at my local community college, take a screenshot of my itinerary for fall.  Send it to NFL ticket and get the student package for $106 after taxes, then drop the class for a refund

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41 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

 

I didn’t realize you were only proposing this because you dislike your draft spot this season.  

Nothing wrong with #4!  Hope u don't end up with this tyrant

spacer.png

 

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3 minutes ago, 1972Miamidolphins said:

It's about that time of year here in a couple weeks.  I sign up for a class at my local community college, take a screenshot of my itinerary for fall.  Send it to NFL ticket and get the student package for $106 after taxes, then drop the class for a refund

I'm 35 and still undeclared

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5 minutes ago, Iron-cock said:

I didn’t realize you were only proposing this because you dislike your draft spot this season.  

 

Correct, people only sell/trade assets because they dislike them, not because they feel it's a potentially sound financial decision.

No matter your draft position, there's a valuation of the commodities available at each share of the market you hold.  If you feel the market is swayed one way or the other, you can exploit that by selling inflated shares and reinvest that into a middle market that you think is currently undervalued for a gross gain given your personal valuation of the expected growth over time.

Child's version:

(1) A King Size Reese's contains 4 Peanut Butter Cups for $1.99

or

(1) A Regular Size Reeses cup contains 2 Peanut Butter Cups for $0.99

(2) A Regular Snickers bar costs $0.99

 

While these 2 assets carry nearly identical 'worth' their 'values' to two different individuals can and does vary wildly.  You do not have to dislike Reese's to place a higher value on the 2nd option.

 

If we decide not to trade draft picks live, my other question that you also ignored still stands.  Can I manage the trade behind the scenes, without disrupting the draft, and complete the transaction after the draft without it being considered collusion or cheating?

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1 minute ago, FFCollusion said:

 

Correct, people only sell/trade assets because they dislike them, not because they feel it's a potentially sound financial decision.

No matter your draft position, there's a valuation of the commodities available at each share of the market you hold.  If you feel the market is swayed one way or the other, you can exploit that by selling inflated shares and reinvest that into a middle market that you think is currently undervalued for a gross gain given your personal valuation of the expected growth over time.

Child's version:

(1) A King Size Reese's contains 4 Peanut Butter Cups for $1.99

or

(1) A Regular Size Reeses cup contains 2 Peanut Butter Cups for $0.99

(2) A Regular Snickers bar costs $0.99

 

While these 2 assets carry nearly identical 'worth' their 'values' to two different individuals can and does vary wildly.  You do not have to dislike Reese's to place a higher value on the 2nd option.

 

If we decide not to trade draft picks live, my other question that you also ignored still stands.  Can I manage the trade behind the scenes, without disrupting the draft, and complete the transaction after the draft without it being considered collusion or cheating?

Row row row your NO

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9 minutes ago, FFCollusion said:

 

Correct, people only sell/trade assets because they dislike them, not because they feel it's a potentially sound financial decision.

No matter your draft position, there's a valuation of the commodities available at each share of the market you hold.  If you feel the market is swayed one way or the other, you can exploit that by selling inflated shares and reinvest that into a middle market that you think is currently undervalued for a gross gain given your personal valuation of the expected growth over time.

Child's version:

(1) A King Size Reese's contains 4 Peanut Butter Cups for $1.99

or

(1) A Regular Size Reeses cup contains 2 Peanut Butter Cups for $0.99

(2) A Regular Snickers bar costs $0.99

 

While these 2 assets carry nearly identical 'worth' their 'values' to two different individuals can and does vary wildly.  You do not have to dislike Reese's to place a higher value on the 2nd option.

 

If we decide not to trade draft picks live, my other question that you also ignored still stands.  Can I manage the trade behind the scenes, without disrupting the draft, and complete the transaction after the draft without it being considered collusion or cheating?

Actually, closer I look, option A is worth $1.99.  Option B is worth only $1.98, that's a league changing difference

 

i run a 14 team ppr local, the winner of the league won the championship by .3 points, it was a catch by Damien Williams, I'd say that's the difference between $1.99 and $1.98

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If you want to trade picks and you find a trade partner just make a gentleman's agreement to draft who the other guy wants at those spots. When rosters are available just make an official trade for the guys y'all agreed to draft for each other.

 

Then the league can discuss changing the rule for next season.

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Posted (edited)

Guys... saying things like "Let's have fun like in year's past" and "it defeats the purpose of the league" and "the league exists as a guide to other users" is all straw and, quite honestly, your opinions.

I could care less about trading picks, but I am calling out your use of your opinion as gospel.

Your opinions can't really stop it from happening anyway.

Trading picks would be fun for me; the purpose of the league is to help us get smarter for our other leagues - trading actually accomplishes that; guide to other users - what about being a guide for me around trade values?  Just sayin'


Just stop with  "we didn't discuss it before the draft and the draft started"... and everyone gets it.

 

Edited by Winky

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10 minutes ago, Winky said:

Guys... saying things like "Let's have fun like in year's past" and "it defeats the purpose of the league" and "the league exists as a guide to other users" is all straw and, quite honestly, your opinions.

I could care less about trading picks, but I am calling out your use of your opinion as gospel.

Your opinions can't really stop it from happening anyway.

Trading picks would be fun for me; the purpose of the league is to help us get smarter for our other leagues - trading actually accomplishes that; guide to other users - what about being a guide for me around trade values?  Just sayin'


Just stop with  "we didn't discuss it before the draft and the draft started"... and everyone gets it.

 

What if the targeted player in the trade gets sniped by another drafter, 

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