Gile Pile

LA Lakers 2019-2020 Season Thread

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On 6/21/2019 at 2:47 PM, Pyschout said:

They had Glenn Rice, Horace Grant, Robert Horry (who was more than 'just' a role player and already a two time champ) and Ron Harper (who WAS just a role player, but one that played a lot of minutes and already had three rings).

 

 

They were all most certainly role players. Robert horry may have been one of the best role players of all time , but he was never remotely close to being an all star any year. Those three championship teams had 2 superstars and role players . Maybe that’s not enough to win a championship today , I can get behind that argument , but it was then. 

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Seriously, laker fans crying about being hated like some persecuted minority facing genocide or something and complaining about fans celebrating by associating with their team as "we"... And y'all wonder why everyone loves to hate the lakers and their fans? 

#F̶i̶r̶s̶t̶W̶o̶r̶l̶d̶LakerProblems

 

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15 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

Thanks.  Agree to disagree.  That’s fair. Now I have a question not to start an argument but out of curiosity...were you born and raised in LA?

Born and raised outside of LA but in Socal. The Lakers have been the family team forever. 

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55 minutes ago, RedRaider27 said:

Born and raised outside of LA but in Socal. The Lakers have been the family team forever. 

Well, if you're from SoCal then you really have no choice but to root for one of the California teams.  If that's the case then you shouldn't really be bothered by my opinion bc my opinion is largely irrelevant.

 

But one thing that annoys people is that Curry has sold about a billion jerseys to Asia and before he was cool Kobe sold the second most jerseys of all time.  Whereas, guys like Gobert or Vucevic would starve if they had to rely on jersey sales.  Again, it's not really jealousy per se bc jersey's sold doesn't impact me personally.  It's more sheer annoyance to realize that it doesn't really matter how good the players on your team are, they will never be as popular internationally as the CA teams.  It's also capitalism so I'm fine with it, it's just a little annoying to know that a John Stockton or Karl Malone jersey, no matter how good they were, is never going to outsell Kobe or Curry.  

 

It goes back to what I referenced earlier.  The slippery slope to the notion that fans are a part of the team when they win is that anyone can claim to be a fan and buy a jersey.  Then they base their self-worth, and by extension the worth of fans of other teams, by how well their team is doing.  So the conclusion is some Asian kid who has never been to the CA or even the U.S is going to think he's a hero bc he bought a Kobe jersey.  Whereas *you* pfff you're "just" a Jazz fan...

 

I think it depends on how heavily invested you are in that team.  If you were born and raised there and followed them your entire life ok then you might be able to say 'we' won the title.  If you were a legacy season ticket owner then you can definitely say that.

 

I think with a team like Utah or Toronto it's a little different.  There are very few Jazz fans or Raptors fans who haven't lived there for an extended period of time.  And those teams have gone through some rough times.  You might think it's funny but I really think someone like Drake or Clipper Darrell had some sort of meaningful impact on their respective teams by supporting them for so long through thick or thin.  Or I remember my dad buying season tickets to the Utah Starzz, telling me we have to support this thing or we will lose our team.  There literally being like one thousand people in the whole stadium so having security tell us we can all go down to fill the lower seats.  Smelling the sweat off of Debbie Black and Margo Dydek.   Then losing the team anyway.  I still think it's annoying when the Raptors win and Canadians say "we" won but I'll give them a pass bc it's been so long and many people thought they'd never win. 

 

For Utah, it's been even longer.  I remember being a kid and my dad trying to convince me that getting rid of Dominique Wilkins for financial reasons was a good thing.  Then to come so close during the Stockton to Malone era.  Then realizing the Jazz can never have any good players because no one good will come to Utah in free agency AND anyone who the Jazz draft will likely leave after their rookie contract.  Same with Orlando.  Same with a lot of teams.  It's not spoken very much of but everyone knows that most black, non-Mormons don't want to move by choice to a state that is under 1% black and majority Mormon.  It's not merely being a small market.  I mean who honestly would choose to live in Utah if they're a multi-millionare, not white, and not a Mormon?  You pretty much have to rely on getting someone like John Stockton who is from Washington with somewhat similar topography and being a very quiet person.  These days most players who could be considered a star want the fortune, the fame, the whole world to know their name...which means Miami or LA.  It would mean NY if it weren't such a poorly run franchise.  So I'll hand it to the Lakers, they've done better than the Knicks by not punting away that advantage. Not only that but the Millers were one of the poorest ownership groups in the NBA.  Utah basically has every disadvantage that you can think of and yet is top 5 in regular season win percentage of all time.  That hasn't translated into a title...but to me that's a great accomplishment.  

 

It's not jealousy of the titles per se, it's jealousy over the resources the Lakers have in terms of longevity, money, and desirability as location.  As with real estate: Location, Location, Location.  Like I said, it's not something I'd hold against you per se, but it is an advantage.  

 

I haven't lived in Utah for nearly twenty years and if they make a run I can't claim I'm a super fan.  But I do think being a Utah fan and a Lakers fan is different in key ways.  I'm not saying this to put you down bc you and Kaboom and others are from there.  I can't judge where you're from.  But it is different.  

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Posted (edited)
On 6/21/2019 at 9:08 AM, itslarry said:

What are people's minimum  expectations, with the future completely sold is it finals or bust? 

As i fan i know ill be pissed if we traded everything+ picks and dont win it all. Especially since there will be no young talent coming in for a while.

The Lakers have a realistic 1-2 year window of opportunity to win a title with the Warriors down.  I’d imagine they are competing against about half a dozen legit contenders: Jazz, Houston, Denver, Bucks, Raptors, Philly.  I wouldn’t be surprised if any of those teams won.  Plus, the FA period hasn’t even begun so another competitor may emerge. 

 

I agree with brock lesnar.  All things being equal each team has a 1/30 chance of winning the title each year.  Realistically a few teams have more than that but some have virtually no chance whatsoever.  If you’re one of the teams who has any legitimate chance at contention I think you have to push all your chips into the middle even if it means screwing your franchise over for ten years.  Winning once every ten years is three times your EV and a s--- ton more than most teams. 

Edited by StifleTower2

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5 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

The Lakers have a realistic 1-2 year window of opportunity to win a title with the Warriors down.  I’d imagine they are competing against about half a dozen legit contenders: Jazz, Houston, Denver, Bucks, Raptors, Philly.  I wouldn’t be surprised if any of those teams won.  Plus, the FA period hasn’t even begun so another competitor may emerge. 

 

I agree with brock lesnar.  All things being equal each team has a 1/30 chance of winning the title each year.  Realistically a few teams have more than that but some have virtually no chance whatsoever.  If you’re one of the teams who has any legitimate chance at contention I think you have to push all your chips into the middle even if it means screwing your franchise over for ten years.  Winning once every ten years is three times your EV and a s--- ton more than most teams. 

1-2 year window?

AD is 26, not 36. Bron will inevitably decline from here on out, but he won't have to be CLE/MIA Bron with AD and a 3rd star.

AD + Bron + 3rd star = contenders for the duration of LBJ's contract.

And when Bron's contract expires, AD will be right in the middle of his prime at 29. Additionally, they'll have space for another max slot with Bron's contract off the books to pair with AD and the other star they nab this off-season.

They're not going away anytime soon.

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2 hours ago, GriffeySwag said:

1-2 year window?

AD is 26, not 36. Bron will inevitably decline from here on out, but he won't have to be CLE/MIA Bron with AD and a 3rd star.

AD + Bron + 3rd star = contenders for the duration of LBJ's contract.

And when Bron's contract expires, AD will be right in the middle of his prime at 29. Additionally, they'll have space for another max slot with Bron's contract off the books to pair with AD and the other star they nab this off-season.

They're not going away anytime soon.

 

While I don't think this is necessarily going to be wrong, the level of entitlement is what is shocking about Lakers fans. It's really as if they've already signed a 3rd superstar and AD has signed an extension... As a Warriors fan who has been through some pretty dark times, it's precisely this attitude that makes me wish the Lakers will spend a few more years in the dumps.

Realistically speaking, the Lakers will likely be a top-heavy team with an injury prone super star in AD, so there's definitely a fair amount of risk even if the 3rd star is quality. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fill out the other starters and the bench.

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3 hours ago, darkyume said:

 

While I don't think this is necessarily going to be wrong, the level of entitlement is what is shocking about Lakers fans. It's really as if they've already signed a 3rd superstar and AD has signed an extension... As a Warriors fan who has been through some pretty dark times, it's precisely this attitude that makes me wish the Lakers will spend a few more years in the dumps.

Realistically speaking, the Lakers will likely be a top-heavy team with an injury prone super star in AD, so there's definitely a fair amount of risk even if the 3rd star is quality. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fill out the other starters and the bench.

Having upwards of 32 mil in cap space means there’s a pretty good chance they’ll land a big name. And AD resigning with LA is pretty much a given considering who is agent is. 

I’m not guaranteeing rings, but two top 10 players along with another top 30 player puts the Lakers in a position to contend for the next 3+ seasons. If reality offends you that’s not a Lakers fan problem, it’s a you problem.

 

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23 minutes ago, GriffeySwag said:

Having upwards of 32 mil in cap space means there’s a pretty good chance they’ll land a big name. And AD resigning with LA is pretty much a given considering who is agent is. 

I’m not guaranteeing rings, but two top 10 players along with another top 30 player puts the Lakers in a position to contend for the next 3+ seasons. If reality offends you that’s not a Lakers fan problem, it’s a you problem.

 

Image result for unicorn gif

Ah the magical dream land of Lakers fandom. In reality they don't have "upwards of $32M in capspace" they have $23.7 up to $27.7M if AD rescinds his trade kicker (which seems unlikely). And there is nothing to say AD resigns. If this falls apart in year 1 he could easily walk. And it could easily fall apart in year 1.

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Lakers have been the laughing stock of the NBA since the last year of Kobe career, Lakers finally try to be relevant again and already people hate that. Warriors been dominating for so long, it’s like I guess let’s let the Warriors cakewalk to the finals each year because “F lakers”. We saw the pretenders the Trailblazers, Rockets and Clippers were. At least the Lakers are trying to actually be competitive unlike some other teams who tank for 6 years accumulating draft picks, that never amount to anything. When was the last time the Kings made the playoffs? I guess people are waiting for their rise to greatness 😂

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7 hours ago, GriffeySwag said:

1-2 year window?

AD is 26, not 36. Bron will inevitably decline from here on out, but he won't have to be CLE/MIA Bron with AD and a 3rd star.

AD + Bron + 3rd star = contenders for the duration of LBJ's contract.

And when Bron's contract expires, AD will be right in the middle of his prime at 29. Additionally, they'll have space for another max slot with Bron's contract off the books to pair with AD and the other star they nab this off-season.

They're not going away anytime soon.

I’m basing it off the fact that LBJ is declining, or eventually will decline.  Also, I think when the warriors get fully healthy it’s likely they will be the best team again. So realistically now is the time to strike with the west weakened and LBJ still at the tail end of his prime.

 

Having AD alone doesn’t make a contender.  The Pelicans had AD and Jrue and built decent supporting pieces.  They were never a contender.

 

It’s also very presumptuous to think that AD will resign.  He left the Pelicans in part bc he perceived they didn’t build a good enough team around him, in part he wanted to play with LeBron, maybe he just wanted to be in LA.  We don’t really truly know his thought process.  But if he was willing to force his way out of New Orleans the way he did then I’d not trust him one whit.  It’s like the guy who cheats on his wife and his mistress thinks he won’t cheat on her...this time its different...he truly loves me.  Cmon.  If AD was willing to do the Pelicans like that, he’ll be willing to do the Lakers like that once LeBron leaves.  He will be looking for the next shiny toy.

 

I was very fair with the Lakers in my posts, deferential even.  I listed them as contenders, a lot of people don’t even believe that.  But it’s as if I don’t claim they will five titles in the next ten years (which I don’t think they will do by any stretch of the imagination) then I’m not being a part of the program.  

 

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Posted (edited)

I actually do actually think AD re-signing is a given. There's a max deal, they can't offer more than a certain amount. Pretty sure his agent and Lakers have discussed that the deal will happen otherwise the Lakers wouldn't have traded all that in a gamble.  If they did and he leaves, wow. 

Edited by brockpapersizer
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Now, according to some,  I hate Lakers? 

Nope, I am too busy celebrating Raptors title.  #WeTheChamps

As  a matter of fact,  when I started following NBA it was the tail end of Magic vs Bird rivalry and Lakers were my favorite franchise.  And I still like Lakers, they are my 3rd favorite team after Raptors and Spurs. That is the reason why  I  post comment about Lakers.

Since dr Jerry Buss passed away in 2013 Lakers have been a dysfunctional franchise (Only Kings and Suns have longer playoff drought than Lakers) and I don't see how is that going to change soon.  I don't see a   realistic long term plan to get back into real contender status. 

I don't think that  aging LBJ and brittle AD can win it all, 3rd star present or not. Lakers have roster to fill and less than 30M to spend. How they are going to create a quality roster depth for this season remains to be seen.

Also, I think that rise of social media and Internet  seems to affect one of the biggest advantage that Lakers had in the past: big market.

To get huge marketing deal  used to be tied to the big markets (LA, NY, Chi,...),  now you can play basketball anywhere and get that same deal. 

That levels playing field from marketing and endorsement perspective and makes basketball related factors more important.

And that is where Lakers, in my opinion, are falling short. They did not get coach that they wanted (Vogel is not the answer),  they traded away their young, promising players, they don't have enough cap space and very limited (if any) control of their draft picks in foreseeable future (NO will get all the good picks they might have).

Good luck  transforming  Lakers into NBA championship team. I hope I am still alive when that happens

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I'm more than 90% sure he will resign, but that's not the same as being certain.  If you have a guy who was willing to force his way out the way that he did, I wouldn't trust him 100%, that's all I'm saying.  Also, having AD alone doesn't make you a contender.  I'm referring to what things might be like when LeBron retires.  We don't really know for certain what will happen, that's why I'd be focused on the present.  

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15 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

I’m basing it off the fact that LBJ is declining, or eventually will decline.  Also, I think when the warriors get fully healthy it’s likely they will be the best team again. So realistically now is the time to strike with the west weakened and LBJ still at the tail end of his prime.

 

Having AD alone doesn’t make a contender.  The Pelicans had AD and Jrue and built decent supporting pieces.  They were never a contender.

 

It’s also very presumptuous to think that AD will resign.  He left the Pelicans in part bc he perceived they didn’t build a good enough team around him, in part he wanted to play with LeBron, maybe he just wanted to be in LA.  We don’t really truly know his thought process.  But if he was willing to force his way out of New Orleans the way he did then I’d not trust him one whit.  It’s like the guy who cheats on his wife and his mistress thinks he won’t cheat on her...this time its different...he truly loves me.  Cmon.  If AD was willing to do the Pelicans like that, he’ll be willing to do the Lakers like that once LeBron leaves.  He will be looking for the next shiny toy.

 

I was very fair with the Lakers in my posts, deferential even.  I listed them as contenders, a lot of people don’t even believe that.  But it’s as if I don’t claim they will five titles in the next ten years (which I don’t think they will do by any stretch of the imagination) then I’m not being a part of the program.  

 

So AD re-signing with the Lakers is "presumptuous" on my part, but in the same post you say the Warriors will be the best team again once they're fully healthy, when Klay and KD's futures are in the air, and are both coming off serious injuries. This is gold.

Having AD alone doesn't make them a contender. Luckily, they will still have this guy named LeBron James for the next 3 years. And oh yeah, they have a ton of cap space to add another star or multiple solid players.

Reality is tough to face. But by all means, continue your circle jerk with a few others in here with your anti-Laker nonsense. Maybe those internet likes will help ease the pain.

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38 minutes ago, GriffeySwag said:

And oh yeah, they have a ton of cap space to add another star or multiple solid players.

Exactly how much cap space Lakers have? Last time I checked Lakers did not have enough cap space for another star. But you are right, reality is tough to face.

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3 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

Exactly how much cap space Lakers have? Last time I checked Lakers did not have enough cap space for another star. But you are right, reality is tough to face.

This has already been answered. Anything else? You and the other minions are becoming too predictable now.

Fast forward a week.

If the Lakers sign a 3rd star: "buT theY HaVe nO dEpTh!"

If the Lakers don't sign a 3rd star and instead spread their money out over multiple free agents: "HAHA sO muCh FoR tHaT 3rD sTaR!"

Wait for it.

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4 hours ago, GriffeySwag said:

This has already been answered. Anything else? You and the other minions are becoming too predictable now.

Fast forward a week.

If the Lakers sign a 3rd star: "buT theY HaVe nO dEpTh!"

If the Lakers don't sign a 3rd star and instead spread their money out over multiple free agents: "HAHA sO muCh FoR tHaT 3rD sTaR!"

Wait for it.

 

9 hours ago, GriffeySwag said:

So AD re-signing with the Lakers is "presumptuous" on my part, but in the same post you say the Warriors will be the best team again once they're fully healthy, when Klay and KD's futures are in the air, and are both coming off serious injuries. This is gold.

Having AD alone doesn't make them a contender. Luckily, they will still have this guy named LeBron James for the next 3 years. And oh yeah, they have a ton of cap space to add another star or multiple solid players.

Reality is tough to face. But by all means, continue your circle jerk with a few others in here with your anti-Laker nonsense. Maybe those internet likes will help ease the pain.

See this is why people don’t like some Lakers fans honestly.  I was very fair and impartial.  I didn’t spew Lakers “hate”.  Just presented the other side of the coin.  I didn’t say anything derogatory.  This forum is about discussion otherwise there’s no point to it. Yet most of the replies was insulting toward me and others.  Unless we all just collectively agree Lakers will be title contenders from here on out that was bound to happen I suppose.  

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On 6/25/2019 at 10:07 PM, Gile Pile said:

Exactly how much cap space Lakers have? Last time I checked Lakers did not have enough cap space for another star. But you are right, reality is tough to face.

 

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:26 AM, Jake the snake said:

Ah the magical dream land of Lakers fandom. In reality they don't have "upwards of $32M in capspace" they have $23.7 up to $27.7M if AD rescinds his trade kicker (which seems unlikely). And there is nothing to say AD resigns. If this falls apart in year 1 he could easily walk. And it could easily fall apart in year 1.

 

On 6/25/2019 at 10:07 PM, Gile Pile said:

Exactly how much cap space Lakers have? Last time I checked Lakers did not have enough cap space for another star. But you are right, reality is tough to face.

But Lakers fans are the delusional ones.

 

 

😂

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7 minutes ago, GriffeySwag said:

 

But Lakers fans are the delusional ones.

 

 

😂

So Lakers get their cap space,  next question is how they use it. 

At the moment it looks Kawhi is down to  Raptors or Clippers, Kemba seems to be going to Boston.

Klay is probably staying with GSW.

KD?  Nothing indicates that.

Maybe Butler, Tobias,  Irving or Russell.  We will see

 

Btw,  Lakers literally traded their entire team to get AD 😉

It is  time to start planning championship parade.

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Posted (edited)

To those that even questioned the fact that AD is going to re-sign on the Lakers. The dude just gave up 4 million dollars so they could sign a max player.  Think about that.  I said days ago he was definitely re-signing, feel like outside of an extraordinary circumstance any other option other than him re-signing died with that one move.

 

Furthermore. In no way am I guaranteeing that Kawahi will be a Laker. Some people are 100% confident that won't happen. I'm legit 50/50.  I do not see why Anthony Davis would sacrifice four million dollars to play with Jimmy Butler or Danelo Russell. Not that those guys are trash at all. They are very talented players. But four million dollars is a ton of money to sacrifice for a talent like that in his prime to just waive away. It doesn't happen often. Legit makes me wonder (emphasis) if Kawahi already decided to come to the Lakers.

Edited by brockpapersizer
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2 hours ago, miasma16 said:

 

 

I loved how many people online and in the media pretended like the Lakers f'ed up when they did the AD trade because it meant they wouldn't get a max slot because of the timing.  Oops. In fairness, a lot of people did call that a non story too.

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1 hour ago, brockpapersizer said:

To those that even questioned the fact that AD is going to re-sign on the Lakers. The dude just gave up 4 million dollars so they could sign a max player.  Think about that.  I said days ago he was definitely re-signing, feel like outside of an extraordinary circumstance any other option other than him re-signing died with that one move.

  

Furthermore. In no way am I guaranteeing that Kawahi will be a Laker. Some people are 100% confident that won't happen. I'm legit 50/50.  I do not see why Anthony Davis would sacrifice four million dollars to play with Jimmy Butler or Danelo Russell. Not that those guys are trash at all. They are very talented players. But four million dollars is a ton of money to sacrifice for a talent like that in his prime to just waive away. It doesn't happen often. Legit makes me wonder (emphasis) if Kawahi already decided to come to the Lakers. 

2 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

So Lakers get their cap space,  next question is how they use it. 

At the moment it looks Kawhi is down to  Raptors or Clippers, Kemba seems to be going to Boston.

Klay is probably staying with GSW.

KD?  Nothing indicates that.

Maybe Butler, Tobias,  Irving or Russell.  We will see

 

Btw,  Lakers literally traded their entire team to get AD 😉

It is  time to start planning championship parade.

In my case it's not so much doubt as it is I wouldn't say anything is guaranteed until it's actually a done deal.  Now it appears to be a done deal.  If I was a Laker fan I'd still have some concerns about AD leaving once LeBron retires bc AD has show disloyalty in the past and there's no reason to believe he won't do it again.

 

I never doubted the Lakers ability to draw free agents.  In fact, that's their primary strength.  In contrast to a team such as the Jazz, no one like AD will ever force their way to Utah.  The Jazz are very risk averse and will only make a trade if it's like the one they did for Conley-very low risk.  They're not empowered to make the moves the Lakers are capable of because they have no reassurance that any marquee player will stay unless he's a Utah sort of guy.  Not many are.  

 

I agree with @Gile Pile about the FA above with the exception that Irving is tied to the Nets.  Houston is trying hard for Butler.  For me that leaves Russell (unlikely to return given the way he was sent out), Tobias (yuck), or Kawhi.  Now if they sign Kawhi...game over.  The others, you'd be better of signing key role player such as Collison and Redick.  Collison, Redick, LBJ, Kuzma, and AD is a title contender.  I never denied that.    

 

But that's not what I take issue with.  No one can deny the Lakers titles or their prime location.  It's the attitude.  Even with LeBron/AD I'd rank these teams in the same tier as the Lakers ATM: Raptors, Bucks, Philly, Jazz, Houston, Denver.  If you went on the Jazz page and complimented Stockton to Malone and said "You guys should be contenders for the next 1-2 years after that Conley deal" then they would reply, "You think we're contenders?  Thank you!" Simply because that's social decorum.

 

In contrast, if you say the Lakers will be contenders for 1-2 years their reply is basically f--- you!  More like the next decade. Lakers hater.  

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

In my case it's not so much doubt as it is I wouldn't say anything is guaranteed until it's actually a done deal.  Now it appears to be a done deal.  If I was a Laker fan I'd still have some concerns about AD leaving once LeBron retires bc AD has show disloyalty in the past and there's no reason to believe he won't do it again.

 

 

 

After this season AD will sign a 4+ year max. Worrying about something 5 or more years away right now seems beyond silly. 

Edited by brockpapersizer

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