Trench Mob

Zion Williamson 2019-2020 Outlook

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48 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

I’m hyping him up because in Preseason he is 25 (3rd round pick) with 66 FT% and 2 TO’s per game with all his glorious other stats. Once the season starts an plays out, he will probably be down to low 5th 6/th 7 round with those stats because. TO’s will probably get a little higher now playing fully against starters, in the 3 preseason games he offered (0) blocks! and his free throw percentage will probably remain the same and points may go down. So I’m essence, people are drafting him 3rd round for a guy who might barely crack 6th round.

 

So points will go down, TOs will go up, but blocks will remain 0?

I seriously doubt he ends up barely cracking 6th round. More like cracking 3rd round I would say.if he keeps high fg% and steals.

Edited by RipCity0
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10 minutes ago, RipCity0 said:

 

So points will go down, TOs will go up, but blocks will remain 0?

I seriously doubt he ends up barely cracking 6th round. More like cracking 3rd round I would say.if he keeps high fg% and steals.

Again, he is 3rd round now in preseason against teams who are playing D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes. Once those guys get their starter minutes, coaches get their rotations and players are actually playing hard because “it counts”, m saying Zion will barely crack 6th. He offers 0 blocks, and barely a 3 if that, so you got him high based off what? Points and steals? So like a Kris Dunn?

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44 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

Again, he is 3rd round now in preseason against teams who are playing D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes. Once those guys get their starter minutes, coaches get their rotations and players are actually playing hard because “it counts”, m saying Zion will barely crack 6th. He offers 0 blocks, and barely a 3 if that, so you got him high based off what? Points and steals? So like a Kris Dunn?

 

What you say doesn't make sense at all. In preseason Booker is 4th round, Anthony Davis is 4th round. What are you talking about? So only Zion playing his full potential and everybody else in the league is lazy in preseason? Did you see him scoring on Gobert? Do you actually watch those highlights or just checking the stats? But If you were checking the stats you would see they are really good, so who knows.

 

Yeah man he is a glorified Kris Dunn you got it right.

Edited by RipCity0

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51 minutes ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

Again, he is 3rd round now in preseason against teams who are playing D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes. Once those guys get their starter minutes, coaches get their rotations and players are actually playing hard because “it counts”, m saying Zion will barely crack 6th. He offers 0 blocks, and barely a 3 if that, so you got him high based off what? Points and steals? So like a Kris Dunn?

Kris dunn doesn't score points so this comparison is pretty terrible 🤷‍♂️

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If I have a high 1st rd pick in snake I think I definitely reach for him with my low 2nd. I see his floor as Julius Randle + elite stocks, which should be enough to warrant top 20 when it's all said and done, especially considering the unlikelihood he's load managed. And this assumes negative FT%/AST/TO, for all we know he could pleasantly surprise in those cats

 

A Giannis 1st + Zion 2nd seems to be a very high ceiling punt FT% team. Grab some REB/BLK in rounds 3-5 and AST/STL in 6-10 and you should be good to go

Edited by PUNTSQUAD

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9 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

Again, he is 3rd round now in preseason against teams who are playing D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes. Once those guys get their starter minutes, coaches get their rotations and players are actually playing hard because “it counts”, m saying Zion will barely crack 6th. He offers 0 blocks, and barely a 3 if that, so you got him high based off what? Points and steals? So like a Kris Dunn?

What do you mean by this? "Against D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes", you do realize that Zion has the same amount of minutes as the other guys right? He is in the preseason state too, It's not like he's out there in playoffs-mode playing 34 min while the opponents stars are playing for 10. Take the Jazz game for example, Gobert was on the floor for 24 mins, Zion for 23. All the other starters on both teams also hovering around 22-24 minutes. I'm not saying preseason is a perfect indicator, but you're undermining the guy with unfair statements.

Regarding the blocks, so the opponents are not playing to their full potential but Zion having 0 blocks on a tiny sample size gives you a CLEAR indication that 0 blocks is his ceiling? Wow lol.
 

My guess is his floor with blocks this rookie season is 0.8, if I had to guess I think he'll land around 1.5 blocks and 1.6 steals. With those stocks and points around 19-20 with 7-8 rebounds it would make him easily third round value.

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Went 2nd round in one of my leagues. Too risky for my likes but I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes with 2nd round value

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5 hours ago, Saltgurkan15 said:

What do you mean by this? "Against D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes", you do realize that Zion has the same amount of minutes as the other guys right? He is in the preseason state too, It's not like he's out there in playoffs-mode playing 34 min while the opponents stars are playing for 10. Take the Jazz game for example, Gobert was on the floor for 24 mins, Zion for 23. All the other starters on both teams also hovering around 22-24 minutes. I'm not saying preseason is a perfect indicator, but you're undermining the guy with unfair statements.

Regarding the blocks, so the opponents are not playing to their full potential but Zion having 0 blocks on a tiny sample size gives you a CLEAR indication that 0 blocks is his ceiling? Wow lol.
 

My guess is his floor with blocks this rookie season is 0.8, if I had to guess I think he'll land around 1.5 blocks and 1.6 steals. With those stocks and points around 19-20 with 7-8 rebounds it would make him easily third round value.

I made a comment and offered my observation. If he gives more than 0 blocks that’s great. But in I forgot the stat line I saw, 72 minutes he has 0 blocks. It could be an indication. It’s funny because, in 3 games he has 0 blocks and it’s a “tiny sample size” “you think that’s his ceiling”. Yet people flood up the Mathisse Thubylle page because he gets 2 blocks and 5 steals in like 12 minutes and is trending up the draft. So you ask me is an indication? 
 

My point was to explain was that he is putting up 3rd round value in preseason against guys who are either 1. Coming back from injury 2. Getting their conditioning up 3. Players looking for a spot on the roster.

Once teams finalize their roster and guys are at their regular minutes like we’ll see if he is still putting up 3rd round numbers. If he is more power to him. People are drafting him at 2nd and 3rd round which could possibly be his ceiling instead of his floor or mid which I would target 5th round. I would hate to see disappointed Zion owners “I drafted Zion 19th” be upset when he is ranked around 45-60.  That means you played yourself.

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The hype is getting too out of control with this young man. He just went for $33 in my most recent draft (higher than Ayton and as much as Vuc). Can't justify that, sorry.

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17 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

Again, he is 3rd round now in preseason against teams who are playing D-leaguers and starters not even playing starter minutes. Once those guys get their starter minutes, coaches get their rotations and players are actually playing hard because “it counts”, m saying Zion will barely crack 6th. He offers 0 blocks, and barely a 3 if that, so you got him high based off what? Points and steals? So like a Kris Dunn?

 

I think hell average around 1 block. Had 1.8 bpg in college and I think 1 bpg seems reasonable.

If he can average stock numbers close to his college season his stats look  similar to Drummonds with less rbds and more points. He will be great for H2H punt ft teams. 

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1 hour ago, Chrizz said:

 

I think hell average around 1 block. Had 1.8 bpg in college and I think 1 bpg seems reasonable.

If he can average stock numbers close to his college season his stats look  similar to Drummonds with less rbds and more points. He will be great for H2H punt ft teams. 

Now that I can agree with. We’ll see if he can get those blocks. If the coach decides to move him to center like has been rumored then possibly. But he is not bigger than these NBA players like he was bigger than those college players.

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2 hours ago, Del Rio said:

The hype is getting too out of control with this young man. He just went for $33 in my most recent draft (higher than Ayton and as much as Vuc). Can't justify that, sorry.

I paid 44$ for him lol

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46 minutes ago, nir said:

I paid 44$ for him lol

 

Please tell me that was keeper/dynasty format.

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He clearly already looks like an all-star. Some people need to get the hate out of their hearts and recognize greatness. His ceiling can be greater than The King himself.

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5 hours ago, Del Rio said:

 

Please tell me that was keeper/dynasty format.

Nope! Redraft! For the fun factor! I do have him in 2 dynasties also.

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32 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

He clearly already looks like an all-star. Some people need to get the hate out of their hearts and recognize greatness. His ceiling can be greater than The King himself.

You are right!

if Zion post Top7 numbers his rookie year, you better call the ambulance! 

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1 hour ago, gooseball said:

What was the adp and the resulting rank of Lebron in his rookie season?

47th on (rounding) 21/6/6 with 1.6 steals, .8 threes, .7 blocks 42/75/3.5 TO. 

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1 hour ago, StifleTower2 said:

47th on (rounding) 21/6/6 with 1.6 steals, .8 threes, .7 blocks 42/75/3.5 TO. 


One caveat, LeBron was fresh out of high school.  

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On one hand, it's just preseason.  On the other, the preseason is more important for rookies, and other players we haven't seen a lot.  I've moved up Zion accordingly, but am still not as high on him as others are.  It's difficult to project a rookie but he's showing he's capable of 24/7/3 with something like 1.5 steals, 1 three, .5 blocks on 60/75 splits with 2 TO.  He's not getting the stocks expected and he's also not racking up assists but that's largely a function of being basically unguardable even against NBA competition.  Purely from a stats perspective I think he profiles similarly to Siakam and I'd predict he's going for a top 35 season.      

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Imo this dude is going to wreck a lot of rosters in Roto formats. He looks to project to be a massive drain in threes, ft%, blocks and turnovers. Thats 4 categories of nothing. I'm also not sure he'll offer anything positive in assists (although that shouldn't be expected). Sure the fg% will be gaudy and rebs solid, but unless this dude is averaging close to 2 steals there is no shot he provides any value with where he's being drafted. 

Edited by Code of Hammurabi
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26 minutes ago, Code of Hammurabi said:

Imo this dude is going to wreck a lot of rosters in Roto formats. He looks to project to be a massive drain in threes, ft%, blocks and turnovers. Thats 4 categories of nothing. I'm also not sure he'll offer anything positive in assists (although that shouldn't be expected). Sure the fg% will be gaudy and rebs solid, but unless this dude is averaging close to 2 steals there is no shot he provides any value with where he's being drafted. 

 

I think he will provide some blocks so I don’t think he will be a complete negative there, but I agree he will be destroying Roto teams if not built around properly. And I want no part of it.

This reminds me of Ben Simmons’ rookie year. I picked Ben Simmons in Roto his rookie year. I wasn’t planning on picking him but he fell to the 7th and I thought I could absorb the FT drain. Wrong. And I got third that year in large part because I was second to last in FT. Very hard to win if you are last or second to last in a category.

I think Zion will be the same. Zion is going to get to the line a lot. You really have to plan really really well not to have him destroy FT%. Good luck.

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I don’t think he’s comparable to Simmons.  Zion’s FT% and TO haven’t been too bad thus far and he’s already hit multiple three.  I also don’t have enough perspective to say his over or underrated.  The only league I know everyone has access to is our roto league in which he was drafted in the 5th.  Compared to others in that round he has a good advantage in FG, Points, Rebs while providing out of position assists/steals that few other than Draymond can do.  

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