2ndCitySox

2019 MLB Trade Rumors and Deadline Thread

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9 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

they wanted gleyber torres.

plus Stroman is a #3.  yanks dont need a number 3, they already have at least 3 of them.  they need someone to match up with Cole/Verlander.  and that doesnt seem to be available.  the best you can hope for is Severino coming back in a month and looking like severino of first half 2018 and 2017


There were quite a few reports refuting the Blue Jays actually asked for Torres. And when you think of it, it really doesn't make sense why they would. No way the Yankees give up Torres, a young stud that will be a big part of the Yankees playoff run. And the middle infield isn't really one of the Blue Jays greatest weaknesses with Bichette, Gurriel Jr., etc.

The Jays were asking for Deivi Garcia though, and that makes more sense given the lack of pitching depth in their farm system. Also wasn't completely out of the question from the Yankees side given Garcia's likely not going to make an impact on the team this year and could still be a little ways away from being a significant big league pitcher. But it also makes sense why the Yankees would pass on this deal given Garcia's potential.

Also, they Yankees could have used a guy like Stroman. I'd argue that Stroman is currently better than a #3, but even a #3 pitcher is exactly what the Yankees should be looking for. Aside from German, there hasn't been anybody else in their rotation that has been pitching better than a #5. So getting that extra pitcher can make a huge difference come playoff time. You hope Severino can come back in time so that he's starting, German continues to roll, you get that #3, then you hope one of your other guys pulls through and takes that #4 slot. So if you make the trade for that extra guy, you've all of a sudden got a respectable rotation. And yeah, acquiring a #1 would obviously be better, but it also means you'd have to give up. Then you're actually looking at moving guys like Deivi Garcia plus other prospects. So that's probably not something the Yankees would want to do anyway given how young the team is, even if it was an option.

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38 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

 

they wanted gleyber torres.

 

plus Stroman is a #3.  yanks dont need a number 3, they already have at least 3 of them.  they need someone to match up with Cole/Verlander.  and that doesnt seem to be available.  the best you can hope for is Severino coming back in a month and looking like severino of first half 2018 and 2017

That is kind of hard to believe.  Not buying it beyond the initial call asking what it would take...Tor mentioning Torres, Cashman laughing and telling them to get real.  Maybe they over played their hand and ticked off the Yanks, maybe Cashman was not that keen on Stroman for whatever reason, but you would think they could have done better than want they ended up with imo from a number of teams.

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1 minute ago, Idoolittle said:


There were quite a few reports refuting the Blue Jays actually asked for Torres. And when you think of it, it really doesn't make sense why they would. No way the Yankees give up Torres, a young stud that will be a big part of the Yankees playoff run. And the middle infield isn't really one of the Blue Jays greatest weaknesses with Bichette, Gurriel Jr., etc.

The Jays were asking for Deivi Garcia though, and that makes more sense given the lack of pitching depth in their farm system. Also wasn't completely out of the question from the Yankees side given Garcia's likely not going to make an impact on the team this year and could still be a little ways away from being a significant big league pitcher. But it also makes sense why the Yankees would pass on this deal given Garcia's potential.

Also, they Yankees could have used a guy like Stroman. I'd argue that Stroman is currently better than a #3, but even a #3 pitcher is exactly what the Yankees should be looking for. Aside from German, there hasn't been anybody else in their rotation that has been pitching better than a #5. So getting that extra pitcher can make a huge difference come playoff time. You hope Severino can come back in time so that he's starting, German continues to roll, you get that #3, then you hope one of your other guys pulls through and takes that #4 slot. So if you make the trade for that extra guy, you've all of a sudden got a respectable rotation. And yeah, acquiring a #1 would obviously be better, but it also means you'd have to give up. Then you're actually looking at moving guys like Deivi Garcia plus other prospects. So that's probably not something the Yankees would want to do anyway given how young the team is, even if it was an option.

Tanaka was doing OK overall and I would classify him a 3 or 4 prior to his last couple of huge blow ups.  He has been prone to that in the past and it really is nothing new.  Sabathia is a 5 (and a weak one at that), they knew he was a was a 5 and re-signed him anyway.  A 4-5 IP pitcher that kills your BP over the long haul. 

 

Paxton is a 4, Happ a 5 at this point.  The former has been highly erratic.  The latter just plain sucks imo.

 

Cashman made three moves for pitching: traded for Paxton, signed Happ and Sabathia...all mistakes.  The Yankees have not developed a top of the rotation starter out of their farm system since Andy Pettitte in 1995 (Severino and German not withstanding as the book is still out on them).  They have relied on free agents and trades for pitching and in the past 10 years or so that has been largely a giant cess pool.

 

With Bauer being off the market (supposedly), and with the Mets rather having root canal without anesthetic before they traded the Yankees Syndergaard, it likely is going to be some SP3-4 type on the cheap imo to give them some innings in combo with some bullpen help.  Likely the best they can do under the circumstances unless something changes and someone else becomes a seller at the last minute.

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5 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Perhaps but Toronto would have wanted more from the Yankees than the Mets anyway because they are in the same division which means traditionally you don't even trade to then let alone give away your best pitcher to them for mere Met-sized peanuts.


I would agree, other than the Yankees and Jays franchises are in different positions right now, so they aren't necessarily directly competing with each other per se. The Yankees are good now and will likely be good for the next few years, where the Jays are in rebuild mode and are a few years away from being competitive. So although it's typically taboo to give your best pitcher to someone in your division, given Stroman only has an extra year of control and the Jays aren't expected to be contenders next year it really isn't a big deal. Really, if anything that would be more motivation for the Jays to make the move. Takes away from the Yankees farm system so they're weaker for future years.

That being said, they still just had to go for the best deal available. I don't think the Yankees were willing to give up Garcia, and I'm not sure what they were willing to give up beyond him, but it likely wasn't better than what the Mets were willing to give up. So that's all it really came down to. The fact is most teams aren't willing to give up their top prospects for only a year and a half of control over a player, so that's probably the best the Jays were going to get.

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1 minute ago, Idoolittle said:


I would agree, other than the Yankees and Jays franchises are in different positions right now, so they aren't necessarily directly competing with each other per se. The Yankees are good now and will likely be good for the next few years, where the Jays are in rebuild mode and are a few years away from being competitive. So although it's typically taboo to give your best pitcher to someone in your division, given Stroman only has an extra year of control and the Jays aren't expected to be contenders next year it really isn't a big deal. Really, if anything that would be more motivation for the Jays to make the move. Takes away from the Yankees farm system so they're weaker for future years.

That being said, they still just had to go for the best deal available. I don't think the Yankees were willing to give up Garcia, and I'm not sure what they were willing to give up beyond him, but it likely wasn't better than what the Mets were willing to give up. So that's all it really came down to. The fact is most teams aren't willing to give up their top prospects for only a year and a half of control over a player, so that's probably the best the Jays were going to get.

Maybe, but if you were Cashman, wouldn't you offer the Jays Frazier for Stroman given where they are?  If you are the Jays, wouldn't that be better than what they got?  I know Frazier's attitude and his defense (mostly when in RF, not in LF) are liabilities, but he can certainly hit from the looks of it at the MLB level.

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11 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

Maybe, but if you were Cashman, wouldn't you offer the Jays Frazier for Stroman given where they are?  If you are the Jays, wouldn't that be better than what they got?  I know Frazier's attitude and his defense (mostly when in RF, not in LF) are liabilities, but he can certainly hit from the looks of it at the MLB level.

 

I would take the two arms. 

Jansen C

Vlad 3B

Bo SS

Biggio 2B

Gurriel OF

Grichuk OF

Teoscar OF

 

That's a strong nucleus controllable through 2022-2024ish. Meanwhile, 5 of their top 6 prospects are now pitchers with Pearson and Kay probably ready to contribute next year. Toronto is doing a great job IMO. 

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5 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

Tanaka was doing OK overall and I would classify him a 3 or 4 prior to his last couple of huge blow ups.  He has been prone to that in the past and it really is nothing new.  Sabathia is a 5 (and a weak one at that), they knew he was a was a 5 and re-signed him anyway.  A 4-5 IP pitcher that kills your BP over the long haul. 

 

Paxton is a 4, Happ a 5 at this point.  The former has been highly erratic.  The latter just plain sucks imo.

 

Cashman made three moves for pitching: traded for Paxton, signed Happ and Sabathia...all mistakes.  The Yankees have not developed a top of the rotation starter out of their farm system since Andy Pettitte in 1995 (Severino and German not withstanding as the book is still out on them).  They have relied on free agents and trades for pitching and in the past 10 years or so that has been largely a giant cess pool.

 

With Bauer being off the market (supposedly), and with the Mets rather having root canal without anesthetic before they traded the Yankees Syndergaard, it likely is going to be some SP3-4 type on the cheap imo to give them some innings in combo with some bullpen help.  Likely the best they can do under the circumstances unless something changes and someone else becomes a seller at the last minute.


I agree with all this. I would say right now Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ are all grossly underperforming, whether they're a #4, #5, whatever, still not the level the Yankees are hoping for. But I also wouldn't be completely surprised if one of these guys turns it on sometime before the playoffs. The talent is there, just needs to come together. But there still needs to be some support, given German is probably the only pitcher they can really count on at this point. The 3 above as mentioned have struggled, the other guys are trash, and who knows whether Severino can make it make to the rotation or not (and if he does, whether he'll be the same guy he was right away). So anything that's currently better than Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ is worth trading for. Even if it's a #3-4, and they're also able to add to their bullpen, I would consider that a successful deadline for the Yankees.

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21 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

Maybe, but if you were Cashman, wouldn't you offer the Jays Frazier for Stroman given where they are?  If you are the Jays, wouldn't that be better than what they got?  I know Frazier's attitude and his defense (mostly when in RF, not in LF) are liabilities, but he can certainly hit from the looks of it at the MLB level.


That's a tough one. Generally speaking, yes you'd think getting a more proven prospect in Frazier would be better than getting a couple of good but not great pitching prospects. However, the Jays pitching depth in their farm system is awful. They do need outfielders too, but that's a position that typically seems to be a bit easier to fill through free agency, trades, etc. later on than pitching is. So although Frazier has a much better shot at making it big in the big leagues than Kay or Woods-Richardson do, I think the Jays had to go with the pitching route.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Perhaps but Toronto would have wanted more from the Yankees than the Mets anyway because they are in the same division which means traditionally you don't even trade to then let alone give away your best pitcher to them for mere Met-sized peanuts.

 

This

 

although i dont disagree the yanks could use another arm, im not going to call Cashman (good GM) a flat out Liar.  I doubt TOR would be thrilled to trade Stroman to the yanks unless they got a big haul.  tough to justify in division trades to fans...

 

edit:

also: to throw a little gas on the fire, apparently Stroman was pissed he was traded to the Mets and not the yanks

https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desire-confirmed-after-ugly-clubhouse-scene/

Edited by jfazz23
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55 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Perhaps but Toronto would have wanted more from the Yankees than the Mets anyway because they are in the same division which means traditionally you don't even trade to then let alone give away your best pitcher to them for mere Met-sized peanuts.

 

1 minute ago, jfazz23 said:

 

This

 

although i dont disagree the yanks could use another arm, im not going to call Cashman (good GM) a flat out Liar.  I doubt TOR would be thrilled to trade Stroman to the yanks unless they got a big haul.  tough to justify in division trades to fans...

Yeah, may have asked for more. Garcia and Florial? But not Gleyber lol. The gap is huge.

If you don’t think “good GMs” lie, all the time, to fanbases and everyone else, I’m not sure what to tell you.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

 

Yeah, may have asked for more. Garcia and Florial? But not Gleyber lol. The gap is huge.

If you don’t think “good GMs” lie, all the time, to fanbases and everyone else, I’m not sure what to tell you.

 

my point is we dont know the situation.  sure GMs lie but you arent privy to any inside info (niether am i).  i think if they could have gotten stroman for Clint Frazier and a pitcher not named Garcia they would have(Medina, Gil etc)

 

edit: yanks fans, Severino throwing off the mound this week.  he might be the additional arm we "add" along with betances about a month from now...

Edited by jfazz23

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1 minute ago, jfazz23 said:

 

my point is we dont know the situation.  sure GMs lie but you arent privy to any inside info (niether am i).  i think if they could have gotten stroman for Clint Frazier and a pitcher not named Garcia they would have(Medina, Gil etc)

If I was in charge Stroman would be a Yankee... If the Jays wanted Frazier & Garcia then I make that deal. Garcia is not helping us this year the time is now. 

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2 hours ago, huskadeez said:

That contract will be an absolute albatross and huge mistake in another two years. Yes he’s a fan favorite , but I don’t think that makes him worth $21 million a year into his age 37 season. I can see him eventually moving to first base because his defense is already getting bad in the OF 

 

Fair, I won’t deny the back end of his deal will likely be a burden. However, the unfortunate reality is Colorado needs to overpay for star power and they did. There aren’t enough years on the deal to call it an absolute albatross, and his final season is less painful at $10 mil. 

To bring it back to a relevant conversation, his contract likely makes him a guy who won’t move. Even if they were to find a trade partner the contract would diminish the return greatly. 

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24 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

If I was in charge Stroman would be a Yankee... If the Jays wanted Frazier & Garcia then I make that deal. Garcia is not helping us this year the time is now. 

 

dont think im trading garcia for stroman straight up.  and we dont know if thats the deal.  they may have wanted Frazier, Gil and Garcia.  thats assuming the Gleyber talk is just posturing. 

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24 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

If I was in charge Stroman would be a Yankee... If the Jays wanted Frazier & Garcia then I make that deal. Garcia is not helping us this year the time is now. 

 

I'd be very hesitant to trade Garcia.  Frasier and Gil/Contreras sure. 

I can't find it at the moment but I know I heard somewhere a few weeks ago that Cashman wasn't really all that interested in Stroman.  

A quick note on Paxton.  When healthy I think he's a #2. But he's not healthy and won't be until they scope his knee this off-season.

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23 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

I'd be very hesitant to trade Garcia.  Frasier and Gil/Contreras sure. 

I can't find it at the moment but I know I heard somewhere a few weeks ago that Cashman wasn't really all that interested in Stroman.  

A quick note on Paxton.  When healthy I think he's a #2. But he's not healthy and won't be until they scope his knee this off-season.

 

ya, you cant be mad at the paxton deal if youre a yanks fan. and i agree with Garcia.  id have done frazier/gil prob.  but we dont know what TOR really wanted.

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2 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

 

 

also: to throw a little gas on the fire, apparently Stroman was pissed he was traded to the Mets and not the yanks

https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desire-confirmed-after-ugly-clubhouse-scene/

No surprise.  He supposedly grew up a big Yankees fan as well.  All going to sit real well with Met fans lol.  He better hope he pitches well from the get go, or it is likely to get ugly there in Queens.  That said, he should look at it as a 1 year audition.  Worst case is he is pitching for someone else this time in 2020 imo.

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This Yankees business is bad news.  It’s permeating the forum.  Such a soulless discussion.  Gut-wrenching, to be honest.  It would be a blessing to hear about anyone else at this point.  Thanks.

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13 minutes ago, Tommy Lee Jones said:

This Yankees business is bad news.  It’s permeating the forum.  Such a soulless discussion.  Gut-wrenching, to be honest.  It would be a blessing to hear about anyone else at this point.  Thanks.

 

Let's talk Tigers! Or Orioles!

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1 hour ago, 96mnc said:

 

I'd be very hesitant to trade Garcia.  Frasier and Gil/Contreras sure. 

I can't find it at the moment but I know I heard somewhere a few weeks ago that Cashman wasn't really all that interested in Stroman.  

A quick note on Paxton.  When healthy I think he's a #2. But he's not healthy and won't be until they scope his knee this off-season.

Can they scope his head and put some brain cells in there?  Dude is dumb as rocks.  And agree with @jfazz23 regrading trade.  When you give up nothing to get James Paxton no matter how bad he turns out it was a worthwhile risk.  

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I can't imagine the Padres couldn't have done better for Stroman than what they got

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cmilne23 said:

Can they scope his head and put some brain cells in there?  Dude is dumb as rocks.  And agree with @jfazz23 regrading trade.  When you give up nothing to get James Paxton no matter how bad he turns out it was a worthwhile risk.  

From a cost perspective, that may be true.  But from the measure of winning a pennant or World Series title, it simply isn't.  You got what you paid.  In a vacuum it is an OK deal on itself.  Combine it with Sabathia and Happ and the lack of an established top tier ace and it is just another in a series of starting pitching screw ups imo.

 

As to Cashman, his record has been dubious at best.  He made some really awful moves over the years (Pavano, Vazquez not once but twice, K. Brown, RJ, Gray, J, Weaver, etc.)  He has done a lot better with hitting and made some very good deal including getting Chapman for next to nothing from the Reds, getting Torres, signing DJ, etc.  But the bottom line is his starting pitching signings by and large have been a mess to varying degrees with the exception of M. Mussina historically.  The Yankees simply have not evaluated or developed starting pitching talent well over the past 20+ years imo.

Edited by secretagentman

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

also: to throw a little gas on the fire, apparently Stroman was pissed he was traded to the Mets and not the yanks

https://nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desire-confirmed-after-ugly-clubhouse-scene/

Thanks.  That was a fun read.  Way to get off on the right foot with your new team ...not.

I like that the reporters were locked out of the clubhouse and told simply there was a reason for it as they heard shouting inside.  It lets my imagination run wild as in envisioning Stroman running around the Toronto clubhouse with spray paint tagging all the walls with "Mets Suck!"  and "Die, Mr Met, die!"

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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52 minutes ago, secretagentman said:

From a cost perspective, that may be true.  But from the measure of winning a pennant or World Series title, it simply isn't.  You got what you paid.  In a vacuum it is an OK deal on itself.  Combine it with Sabathia and Happ and the lack of an established top tier ace and it is just another in a series of starting pitching screw ups imo.

 

As to Cashman, his record has been dubious at best.  He made some really awful moves over the years (Pavano, Vazquez not once but twice, K. Brown, RJ, Gray, J, Weaver, etc.)  He has done a lot better with hitting and made some very good deal including getting Chapman for next to nothing from the Reds, getting Torres, signing DJ, etc.  But the bottom line is his starting pitching signings by and large have been a mess to varying degrees with the exception of M. Mussina historically.  The Yankees simply have not evaluated or developed starting pitching talent well over the past 20+ years imo.

 

I know the current year park metrics don't back this statement up but pitching in The Stadium has to grind on starting pitchers.  That place is a launching pad.   

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