Gile Pile

NBA summer 2019 offseason thread

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5 minutes ago, Auction>Snake said:

MJ's 1st 3 peat. Lakers had Magic with aids and no Kareem. Drexler by himself lol. Then Barkley, and Kevin Johnson lol. 1995 Eatsern Conference Finals MJ choked on a key play in Game 6 and lost to Shaq and Penny 6-0 my a**. Oh MJ was rusty right? He dropped two 50 point games prior to that series. They desperately needed Rodman's help. 
Rodman's offensive rebounding won the following 1996 series, most long time Bulls fans agree.
Jordan not only shot terribly from the field, he was absolute s--- in the fourth quarters too (shot 33.3% in them, and only 15.4% in the fourth quarters of the three close games). In the two close wins of the series, Rodman averaged 11 offensive rebounds/game. He was setting records, and when MJ was shooting the team out of the game with bricks (rest of the team struggled shooting wise too), it was Rodman getting all those rebounds to give Bulls the extra possessions. Bulls as a team shot much lower than Sonics in that series...why do you think they still won? They got 34 more possessions from offensive rebounds (Rodman alone had 41!). MJ's scoring could have been replaced in that series, but Rodman's historic offensive rebounding? Not so much.
Rodman should have been the MVP of that Finals. The Bulls shot much worse from the field than the Sonics in the Finals but still won. How did that happen? Simple. The Bulls got more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses. Rodman, by himself, secured and additional 41 possessions for the Bulls with his offensive rebounding including 2 games where he tied an NBA Finals record. That's like playing H-O-R-S-E and someone giving you multiple "do overs" after you've missed.
Jordan didn't have to contend with a generation behind him - go look at the drafts from '86-'95; there was very little top-end talent entering the league and a good number of 'em were on the Bulls. 

Payton was injured in the NBA Finals in 1996. Horace Grant was also very underappreciated as a Bull, a key in the Magic beating the Bulls in '95, and injured in Game 1 in '96. Also, while people give Jordan credit for the titles he didn't win because he quit on his team (twice), they also don't factor in the extra wear and tear those years would've put on him in the later years, probably costing him a couple titles on the back end. 

He also didn't have to exist in a social media world - he was prickly with the media and always felt maligned, even by the mostly flattering "The Jordan Rules" - imagine him exposed to the comments and 24-hour sports news cycle of today. He's a notoriously terrible talent evaluator - imagine if the Bulls had felt compelled to pick the players he wanted. We all know he didn't want Scottie Pippen; imagine if he had to play GM and coach and SG. Or if the Bulls weren't able to lock Scottie Pippen into a now-impossible ridiculously low contract. Jordan has a grand total of 1 playoff  GAME win without Pippen. Jordan also played in a watered-down league as the NBA expanded from 23 teams to 30, and the West was the deeper conference back then.

So basically when Jordan was winding down his prime, all his competition was ALSO winding down theirs, and most were even older than he was. LeBron, meanwhile, has had to play his last two Finals against TWO league MVPs in their prime that partnered up while his "superstar" teammates are both guys who have won a total of zero playoff games without him.
LBJ's a pass first player. 10k+ assists 10k+ boards 30k+ points will NEVER be done again. LBJ GOAT no question. Bigger, stronger, faster. Rings are a team achievement, not an individual accomplishment. Facts. Keep hating. 
 

Your Pultizer's in the mail.  Anyway, yeah, I don't think Jordan is going to stop Kawhi this year at all.  If he's stopped, it's not because of Jordan.

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Lebron is trash. Old money, time for the new kids. 

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This is definitely the most surprising offseason in the history of the league.

So many teams now with legit chances. This is shaping up to be one of the more exciting seasons in a long, long time.

I did not have any skin in the game regarding Kawhi, but thank you Kawhi for not letting Lebron manipulate his way into another big 3.

Next up is probably Westbrook getting traded. And the Thunder will be better off for it to move on from that stat chasing shot jacker that drives superstars away off the team......

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ajax said:

In the end (and this is just me speculating but it kinda fits), I believe that Kawhi was always set on going to the Clippers, but like a great poker player, he never revealed his cards, nor tipped his intentions. If you think about it makes perfect sense. Championship or not, staying in Toronto would had meant that Pop had dictated his future for him, and he wasn't going to allow that. Going to the Lakers and play second or third fiddle to Lebron and AD after he'd been a successful alpha dog elsewhere was just not going to happen, yet he did wanted to go back to his LA roots. The Clippers were a playoff team with no stars, and have a great bench, and role players, much like the Raptors had. It was the perfect situation, but it needed the finishing touch. Enter the Paul George trade!  Now, I don't know the extent of Kawhi's involvement here, but bringing another LA native superstar with him is a stroke of genius.

 The Clippers are without a doubt in my mind, the team to beat now. I tip my hat to Jerry West and Kawhi Leonard!

 

Really interesting what would have happened if they couldn't get PG. That part kinda same out of nowhere, but the fact that woj reported he was will wiling to team up and wait on torn Achilles KD makes me tend to agree with this.

Edited by brockpapersizer
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Anyone here thinks OKC got the better of LAC on that trade? If they can flip Wesbtbrook for even more picks, salary relief and a young big blue chipper to play with SGA, then Presti strikes once again. OKC had all the leverage and believe Presti milked the hell out of that trade. Can't never count that dude out. 

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7 minutes ago, SicarioSanity said:

Anyone here thinks OKC got the better of LAC on that trade? If they can flip Wesbtbrook for even more picks, salary relief and a young big blue chipper to play with SGA, then Presti strikes once again. OKC had all the leverage and believe Presti milked the hell out of that trade. Can't never count that dude out. 

I don't really like to evaluate trades from a perspective of who won the trade.  They had different interests.  Both got what they wanted.  Win-Win.  If the Clippers win their first title it was worth it.  

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50 minutes ago, SicarioSanity said:

Anyone here thinks OKC got the better of LAC on that trade? If they can flip Wesbtbrook for even more picks, salary relief and a young big blue chipper to play with SGA, then Presti strikes once again. OKC had all the leverage and believe Presti milked the hell out of that trade. Can't never count that dude out. 

Sure Presti strikes again with a bunch of picks and then what? Danny Ainge has a bunch of picks he boarded too, and still missed out on AD. He has been holding onto those picks too long.

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2 hours ago, SicarioSanity said:

Anyone here thinks OKC got the better of LAC on that trade? If they can flip Wesbtbrook for even more picks, salary relief and a young big blue chipper to play with SGA, then Presti strikes once again. OKC had all the leverage and believe Presti milked the hell out of that trade. Can't never count that dude out. 

Objectively? Yes, I do. That's an insane haul. But the Clippers are winners any way you want to spin it because they now have the best team in the NBA on paper. It's a good trade.

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10 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

I don't really like to evaluate trades from a perspective of who won the trade.  They had different interests.  Both got what they wanted.  Win-Win.  If the Clippers win their first title it was worth it.  

 

7 hours ago, miasma16 said:

Objectively? Yes, I do. That's an insane haul. But the Clippers are winners any way you want to spin it because they now have the best team in the NBA on paper. It's a good trade.

 

Clippers clearly win but agree that it very likely is a win win. The trade is 99.9% why the Clippers signed Kawhi. I heard rumors that a Westbrook, PG13 for Lowry, Siakam, salary filler and picks was on the table for the Raptors but the Raptors weren't interested. Had the Raptors took that, Kawhi would have resigned there.

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My way too early West projections:

1. DEN (very deep, star in Jokic, good system)

2. LAC (two stars, great defensively, need some more depth)

3. Utah (similar to Denver but with no true star, very deep)

4. GSW (no KD, no Klay, little depth, but still have Steph/Dray/Dlo and run a great system)

5. LAL (two stars, pretty good depth, how will team come together?)

6. HOU (two stars, no depth, chemistry issues)

7. POR (decently deep, one true star, but their story is the same: 2nd round exit)

8. SA (tempted to put Dallas here but SA always finds a way, good system)

--------------------------

9. DAL

10. OKC

11. SAC

12. NO

13. MEM

14. MIN

15. PHX

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7 minutes ago, RedRaider27 said:

My way too early West projections:

1. DEN (very deep, star in Jokic, good system)

2. LAC (two stars, great defensively, need some more depth)

3. Utah (similar to Denver but with no true star, very deep) 

4. GSW (no KD, no Klay, little depth, but still have Steph/Dray/Dlo and run a great system)

5. LAL (two stars, pretty good depth, how will team come together?)

6. HOU (two stars, no depth, chemistry issues)

7. POR (decently deep, one true star, but their story is the same: 2nd round exit)

8. SA (tempted to put Dallas here but SA always finds a way, good system) 

--------------------------

9. DAL

10. OKC

11. SAC

12. NO

13. MEM

14. MIN

15. PHX

Pretty much what I have.  I think the 4/5 seed will be the most interesting as I think it will feature two of these teams: Warriors, Lakers, Houston.  But man I hope the Jazz don't face the Rockets first round.

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Posted (edited)
  1. LAC
  2. UTA (Conley and Bogdanovic are great additions)
  3. DEN
  4. HOU
  5. LAL (Health and depth concerns, need some time to click)
  6. POR (Bazemore is a slight upgrade. Whiteside is a wild card, they badly need rebound and block)
  7. GSW(a bad defensive team, loss of Iggy is a tough blow defensively. an injury away from missing the PO, might miss even full team whole season) / SA (can't count POP out) /SAC (should have an even better season)
Edited by littlesamtung
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I would like to point out that Spurs are quietly building a very deep team. They can be dangerous if Murray is  100% healthy

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3 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

I would like to point out that Spurs are quietly building a very deep team. They can be dangerous if Murray is  100% healthy

Exactly, I can´t believe people are writing Spurs off, they added Carroll and Morris, Murray is back, they had big problems on the SF position and these additions are significant, they are making playoffs in my book.

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OKC traded Jerami Grant to Denver for a 1st. Great trade. Grant fits perfectly next to Jokic. 

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I am starting to think that Westbrook will be on the move as soon as OKC make Knicks or Suns believe that he is the answer to their problems

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Meanwhile, in Indiana....Yes, there is still an NBA team in Indiana.

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2 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

I am starting to think that Westbrook will be on the move as soon as OKC make Knicks or Suns believe that he is the answer to their problems

Don't think the Knicks have the tradeable contract. I think it's quite likely he's in Miami by the end of the year. 

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3 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

 

11RpNCt.png

 

Considering their age, contracts and Jimmy's durability  I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.  Imo, Raptors will win it all before these two do.

#wethechamps

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42 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

Considering their age, contracts and Jimmy's durability  I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.  Imo, Raptors will win it all before these two do.

#wethechamps

 

Raptor fans are adorable lol.

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1 hour ago, Gile Pile said:

Imo, Raptors will win it all before these two do.

Bold Prediction: It will be a tie.

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I like how pretty much every team in the league has had a significant change to their roster so far this off-season.
image.png.e08adf1e81aa36c9cf942e7628d9eb11.png
*Note: Yes, I know I'm missing some players. These are just a few of the notable roster moves.

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