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Italian_guy

Fantrax Midseason Top 250

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1 hour ago, Italian_guy said:

https://www.fantraxhq.com/2019-overall-top-250-prospects-for-dynasty-leagues/

 

What do you guys think? It includes 2019 signings. 

 

I found it a bit too much this season performance - related

This was my sense of things too.  Albeit guys like Julio Rodriguez, Luciano, Robinson, Valera, etc., all appear to be proving they will be top prospects it does seem a bit aggressive given their assignments right now.  I would think if they start proving themselves against more advanced pitching in more advanced leagues it would justify their present rankings.  The newly drafted guys are also somewhat hard to rank.  Until you start to see the results, I guess they do the best they can with trying to gauge talent versus where to rank on the list.  That said, there are a lot of newly drafted guys added so time will tell if justified or not.  Overall, hard to be too critical and the list is what it is 'a list' by a good fantasy prospect maven.  

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Love seeing Gore ranked where he should be as the top ranked pitching prospect...

Looks like the Ms have the potential for a pretty filthy duo in Kelenic and J-Rod in the OF.

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Nolan Gorman as a top 10 prospect absolutely baffles me. Sure, he tore up rookie ball but was miserable in A ball in 2018. He started out well in A ball this year but then followed it up with being miserable once again. Then inexplicably got promoted and has once again been fairly miserable. Since May 1, .197/.316/.347 a span of 228 PAs. He plays 3B but the opinion is divided whether or not he will stick there. Going back to August 8th 2018 when he was promoted from rookie ball to A ball his line since then has been. 220/.318/.413 covering 421PAs. I don't hate the guy, I just find it inexplicable the hype he's getting when he's a bat only guy and the bat hasn't hit for nearly a year now.

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2 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Nolan Gorman as a top 10 prospect absolutely baffles me. Sure, he tore up rookie ball but was miserable in A ball in 2018. He started out well in A ball this year but then followed it up with being miserable once again. Then inexplicably got promoted and has once again been fairly miserable. Since May 1, .197/.316/.347 a span of 228 PAs. He plays 3B but the opinion is divided whether or not he will stick there. Going back to August 8th 2018 when he was promoted from rookie ball to A ball his line since then has been. 220/.318/.413 covering 421PAs. I don't hate the guy, I just find it inexplicable the hype he's getting when he's a bat only guy and the bat hasn't hit for nearly a year now.

Cross has been in love with dude, he readily admits he the highest in the 'industry' on him...but yeah I don't see it either

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This Kelenic ranking feels agressive but I don't hate it. 

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Jordan Balazovic at like 140?

 

Victor Victor Mesa being listed anywhere in the top 200, let alone top 90?  The guy had one good year and 4 crap years in Cuba.  He's 22 in A ball and has 5 extra base hits in 64 games

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, BigPapi44 said:

This was my sense of things too.  Albeit guys like Julio Rodriguez, Luciano, Robinson, Valera, etc., all appear to be proving they will be top prospects it does seem a bit aggressive given their assignments right now.  I would think if they start proving themselves against more advanced pitching in more advanced leagues it would justify their present rankings.  The newly drafted guys are also somewhat hard to rank.  Until you start to see the results, I guess they do the best they can with trying to gauge talent versus where to rank on the list.  That said, there are a lot of newly drafted guys added so time will tell if justified or not.  Overall, hard to be too critical and the list is what it is 'a list' by a good fantasy prospect maven.  

From what I recall, all of the guys you mentioned were top international signees a few years ago and have had continued success stateside. They've always had the tools and projection to succeed and since they've backed it up in games, their rankings have soared appropriately. It's not like they came out of nowhere.

 

Wander Franco always had the Wander Franco hype. He was the clear top talent of his class and since he's been destroying the already aggressive assignments the Rays have given him, it propelled his hype and rankings even further. Jasson Dominguez is just as well regarded as Franco was in 2016, but he just signed his professional contract today, let alone has proven himself stateside. He's definitely a top 100 minor league asset as of now, but prospect lists won't reflect that until he backs it up. Since Valera, Rodriguez, Robinson, and Valera have backed that up stateside, most prospect lists will rank them accordingly since this time last year most of them didn't have professional at bats outside of rookie ball.

Edit: I guess I see how bold this list really is in ranking Dominguez as a borderline top-50 guy. The talent is there but I see what people are saying when this list is too bold.

 

 

To the people talking about Gorman/Kelenic aggressive rankings, while I agree their positions are too bold for my liking, I think part of the point of these lists is to highlight guys that clearly have their stock up. Mize being top 5 or top 10 is semantics since he's already an established top tier guy, but Kelenic even sniffing the top 5 is a testament to how high people now are on him even if he should be 10-15. He wasn't 10-15 when the season started.

Edited by Maxcd99

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32 minutes ago, Maxcd99 said:

From what I recall, all of the guys you mentioned were top international signees a few years ago and have had continued success stateside. They've always had the tools and projection to succeed and since they've backed it up in games, their rankings have soared appropriately. It's not like they came out of nowhere.

 

Wander Franco always had the Wander Franco hype. He was the clear top talent of his class and since he's been destroying the already aggressive assignments the Rays have given him, it propelled his hype and rankings even further. Jasson Dominguez is just as well regarded as Franco was in 2016, but he just signed his professional contract today, let alone has proven himself stateside. He's definitely a top 100 minor league asset as of now, but prospect lists won't reflect that until he backs it up. Since Valera, Rodriguez, Robinson, and Valera have backed that up stateside, most prospect lists will rank them accordingly since this time last year most of them didn't have professional at bats outside of rookie ball.

Edit: I guess I see how bold this list really is in ranking Dominguez as a borderline top-50 guy. The talent is there but I see what people are saying when this list is too bold.

 

 

To the people talking about Gorman/Kelenic aggressive rankings, while I agree their positions are too bold for my liking, I think part of the point of these lists is to highlight guys that clearly have their stock up. Mize being top 5 or top 10 is semantics since he's already an established top tier guy, but Kelenic even sniffing the top 5 is a testament to how high people now are on him even if he should be 10-15. He wasn't 10-15 when the season started.

I don't think any of the guys mentioned are in the same class as Wander Franco.  Franco is a full year younger than Julio Rodriguez and also younger than Valera or Robinson. The stats Franco put up last year in rookie ball were video game crazy, especially given his age. Sure, these guys could be the next Wander, which I suspect is the rationale to their ranking, but I disagree with the assessment that 15 games into the season that guys like Valera and Robinson are deserving to be ranked as highly as they are.  They are holding their own, but I would hardly say that their numbers are justifying the ranking.  Again, perhaps by end of the rookie ball season they will.  

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25 minutes ago, BigPapi44 said:

I don't think any of the guys mentioned are in the same class as Wander Franco.  Franco is a full year younger than Julio Rodriguez and also younger than Valera or Robinson. The stats Franco put up last year in rookie ball were video game crazy, especially given his age. Sure, these guys could be the next Wander, which I suspect is the rationale to their ranking, but I disagree with the assessment that 15 games into the season that guys like Valera and Robinson are deserving to be ranked as highly as they are.  They are holding their own, but I would hardly say that their numbers are justifying the ranking.  Again, perhaps by end of the rookie ball season they will.  

I dont think anyone I mentioned (besides Dominguez) is in the same class as Franco either, I'm just saying their rise in rank parallels his. I don't think I compared anyone else to Franco either from a talent stand point. It's just that Valera, Robinson, Rodriguez, and Luciano were all top 10 or so in their signing class and because they have lived up to it stateside, they're all getting a rise in rank/hype accordingly. Fantrax' rankings may take it to an extreme, but their overall improved esteem is substantiated. I'm not saying any of them at this point have the same projection Wander has.

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1 minute ago, Maxcd99 said:

I dont think anyone I mentioned (besides Dominguez) is in the same class as Franco either, I'm just saying their rise in rank parallels his. I don't think I compared anyone else to Franco either from a talent stand point. It's just that Valera, Robinson, Rodriguez, and Luciano were all top 10 or so in their signing class and because they have lived up to it stateside, they're all getting a rise in rank/hype accordingly. Fantrax' rankings may take it to an extreme, but their overall improved esteem is substantiated. I'm not saying any of them at this point have the same projection Wander has.

Fair enough.  I don't actually think we are disagreeing.  All good.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, BigPapi44 said:

Fair enough.  I don't actually think we are disagreeing.  All good.

Yeah I don't think so either, but it's probably worthwhile exploring since this is a big way guys boost their prospect projections in general...they kill stateside ball and soar up rankings.

One thing I failed to mention earlier is how important age is. Valera and Robinson are 18 year olds in A- and are killing it with a 152 and 140 wRC+ respectively despite being 3 years younger than the average player! Most guys with MLB talent don't even play there until they are 19 or 20. Rodriguez is even more impressive since he's 18 years old doing the same thing at A ball, with a 156 wRC+. All three of these guys are doing amazing things at their age. Although Valera and Robinson started at short season ball this year and Rodriguez hasn't gotten an A+ call up yet, these guys all have the same performance as Wander so far. Wander's even louder tools is what separates him apart and makes him a top 1 prospect. You can't really ask for anything better from the other three. Doing a cursory look at Fangraphs '17 J2 rankings and disregarding Daniel Flores who passed away later that year, Wander was ranked 1 (FV50), Mauricio 2 (FV45), Rodriguez (FV 40), Valera 7 (FV 40), and Robinson 9 (FV 40). Mauricio hasn't cracked A- yet so I can agree with the skepticism but most scouts trust his tools. Point being, all of these guys were top 10 international signees and since they've flourished in their low assignments, the hype has risen as a result. If Everson Pereira, sandwiched in ranking between Valera and Robinson, had a 137 wRC+ instead of 37 wRC+ so far in A-, he'd be getting the same hype too.

 

Luisangel acuna has received a ton of hype lately and has raked the DSL. What makes this hype somewhat undeserved is that the average DSL player is only a few months older than him. Gilberto Jiminez is 3 years younger than the average A- and has a wRC+ of 166 and has no hype. Granted Jiminez has his own faults, such as being a potential slap hitter and being a 10k signee, but based off their career numbers so far and their relative league age differences, as of now I'd much rather have shares of Jiminez over Acuna.

 

Edited by Maxcd99
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I like the aggressive rankings of the super young guys.  I think it reflects the value owners are giving these guys like Valera/Robinson/Luciano/JRod who have the talent to be absolute stars.  I’ll take any one of them over a guy like jonathon India or Jesus Sanchez or half the list filled with guys who project to be nothing more than solid every day guys.  

 

Where these rankings get tough is if your playing in 20+ team leagues where finding any future starter is worth a ton.

 

all this being said just gonna go ahead and say what the hell is up with Luis urias at 55 and sixto at 61???

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I try to be open-minded to diverging opinions... but the idea that guys like Gorman and Kelenic can be ranked ahead of Keston Hiura - and even Carter Kieboom - boggles my mind. 
It's indefensible. Somehow, Hiura continues to go overlooked. Throw Kyle Tucker into that mix too. Well-rounded, high-ceiling player who has done nothing but mash at the highets Minor League level. 

How can I take the rest of the list seriously when there are glaring issues like this?  Maybe the point was to get clicks and to get noticed. If so, it worked. Look where we are. 

But if you're following, say, a recipe for homemade marinara sauces, and some of the main ingredients listed are cumin and vanilla... I'm inclined to find a different recipe. 

That said, no matter how much Gorman struggles, I'll never be able to get his Futures Game home run out of my head. When he crushed that, I immediately thought
"woah. THAT's a guy right there."  
 

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What I like from this list is that I own 14 out of my 20 minorleaguer in the top 100.

But I really think Fraley @49 is way too high.

Instead I find Braxton Garret too low.

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5 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Gore is ranked pretty high for a guy who hasn't made it to AA yet.

Wander Franco says hello...and he's no.1 on most lists....

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, pduce242424 said:

Wander Franco says hello...and he's no.1 on most lists....

Ludicrous statement about Gore considering him and Casey Mize are 1A and 1B when it comes to pitching prospects.

Edited by BaseballJunkie

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52 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

Gore is ranked pretty high for a guy who hasn't made it to AA yet.

Well when not only has your performance been elite, but your stuff is elite as well, that's going to happen.

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1 hour ago, BaseballJunkie said:

Ludicrous statement about Gore considering him and Casey Mize are 1A and 1B when it comes to pitching prospects.

The point was Wander is not in AA either...no slight on Gore

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5 minutes ago, pduce242424 said:

The point was Wander is not in AA either...no slight on Gore

That post wasn't directed toward you. I was agreeing with you that DerrickHenry'sCleats had an asinine point.

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