JHM_13

Zero QB Strategy

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I've seen posts on zero RB or even zero WR.  I like to take a more balanced approach at RB and WR early and go zero QB. I won't even look at a QB until after round 10 because there's too many viable QBs. Thoughts?

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1 minute ago, JHM_13 said:

I've seen posts on zero RB or even zero WR.  I like to take a more balanced approach at RB and WR early and go zero QB. I won't even look at a QB until after round 10 because there's too many viable QBs. Thoughts?

 

Agree in general.  But if the draft is falling a certain way and say....Mahomes falls a half or full round?    I’d potentially break with habit.   Those top few monster qbs can be game changers-  if you pick right.   Normally I would favor a TE early over a qb.  

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2 minutes ago, Impreza178 said:

 

Agree in general.  But if the draft is falling a certain way and say....Mahomes falls a half or full round?    I’d potentially break with habit.   Those top few monster qbs can be game changers-  if you pick right.   Normally I would favor a TE early over a qb.  

 

Disagree. Zero TE strategy is my next post.

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Why grab a QB or TE early when you can get Josh Allen and Vance McDonald way later. By that point you're smashing the draft with your RBs and WRs. 

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i think this is the dumbest s**t i've ever heard of and you should quit FF.  Go make a steak or something, geez

 

 

 

 

-BP

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4 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

i think this is the dumbest s**t i've ever heard of and you should quit FF.  Go make a steak or something, geez

 

 

 

 

-BP

 

It's really not though. If you remove Mahomies from the conversation because of his outlier year, the difference between 2-15 is like 4 points per game. It's considerably less than other positions. It's a good strategy

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2 minutes ago, JHM_13 said:

 

It's really not though. If you remove Mahomies from the conversation because of his outlier year, the difference between 2-15 is like 4 points per game. It's considerably less than other positions. It's a good strategy

i know, i know.  I honestly just wanted you to cook me a steak.  I do agree in general with your theory and I'm not convinced even Mahomes is going to separate himself as substantially in 19' as he did in 18'.  Format and league size changes this overall idea for me to some degree.  But generally, waiting on QB has been a proven tactic for finding the right value at that position.

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I mean, this is a fantasy football forum and all...........but doesn't everyone basically go zero QB these days?    Not much really to discuss here.     

I guess if anything, i believe QB's are deeper than any year I can remember.  There's maybe 5-6 teams with a QB i wouldn't touch right now.  Usually its double that.   

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I've had bad experiences in the past waiting a 8+ rounds for a low-tier QB. Guys like Rivers, Roethlisberger and Alex Smith provided me with good weeks but then fell flat later on.

I'll happily pass on Mahomes and Rodgers, but I'm really gunning for Andrew Luck this year. If the draft flow doesn't go in that direction for me, I like Wentz late. Josh Allen has a lot to prove to me, but I like his upside.
 

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7 minutes ago, BrianM said:

I mean, this is a fantasy football forum and all...........but doesn't everyone basically go zero QB these days?    Not much really to discuss here.     

I guess if anything, i believe QB's are deeper than any year I can remember.  There's maybe 5-6 teams with a QB i wouldn't touch right now.  Usually its double that.   

 

Maybe I play with a bunch of amateurs then because I see QBs going early. One idiot took Andrew Luck in the first a couple years ago. I think it's better to just wait because the upside is so minimal

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14 minutes ago, dropshadows said:

I've had bad experiences in the past waiting a 8+ rounds for a low-tier QB. Guys like Rivers, Roethlisberger and Alex Smith provided me with good weeks but then fell flat later on.

I'll happily pass on Mahomes and Rodgers, but I'm really gunning for Andrew Luck this year. If the draft flow doesn't go in that direction for me, I like Wentz late. Josh Allen has a lot to prove to me, but I like his upside.
 

 

You just got the wrong guys a couple times.   Keep the faith.   Look at the teams that go QB early in your league- they likely perform worse.   If you're in a 12 team, one QB league, there's waiver options most likely, unless you all roster two QB's

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Things to factor if you haven't zero QB'd and you're tentative:   

Of the top 16 or so QB's, how many are really going to be unstartable?   FFC has last year's top 16 as Rodgers, Watson, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Cam, Cousins, Wentz, Luck, Jimmy G, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Goff.     Three got hurt, and in my opinion, only Stafford sucked.  Jimmy G was a huge whiff.  The two others that got hurt were Cam and Wentz, two guys that surprised no one when they missed games.  

How many QB's are typically rostered?  Can you easily get one on waivers?  Even in a 14 teamer, this wasn't a problem for me last year, so i'm never shy about waiting.    

Also, trade market.   Are your co-owners stingy jerks who ask for your 4th best player for their backup QB? Or can you find a trade partner in a pinch?   Its good to make friends sometimes- i've got 2-3 guys that we do favor trades when needed.   Two years ago i had two QB's.  A guy needed one, i gave him Cousins for a slight bargain rather than saying "oh i can't do that, what if blah blah blah".   Last year, was in the same exact boat, he traded me Goff bc he had two good ones, for the same price (keeper picks).   

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26 minutes ago, BrianM said:

Things to factor if you haven't zero QB'd and you're tentative:   

Of the top 16 or so QB's, how many are really going to be unstartable?   FFC has last year's top 16 as Rodgers, Watson, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Cam, Cousins, Wentz, Luck, Jimmy G, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Goff.     Three got hurt, and in my opinion, only Stafford sucked.  Jimmy G was a huge whiff.  The two others that got hurt were Cam and Wentz, two guys that surprised no one when they missed games.  

How many QB's are typically rostered?  Can you easily get one on waivers?  Even in a 14 teamer, this wasn't a problem for me last year, so i'm never shy about waiting.    

Also, trade market.   Are your co-owners stingy jerks who ask for your 4th best player for their backup QB? Or can you find a trade partner in a pinch?   Its good to make friends sometimes- i've got 2-3 guys that we do favor trades when needed.   Two years ago i had two QB's.  A guy needed one, i gave him Cousins for a slight bargain rather than saying "oh i can't do that, what if blah blah blah".   Last year, was in the same exact boat, he traded me Goff bc he had two good ones, for the same price (keeper picks).   

 

Beautiful post

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BrianM said:

Things to factor if you haven't zero QB'd and you're tentative:   

Of the top 16 or so QB's, how many are really going to be unstartable?   FFC has last year's top 16 as Rodgers, Watson, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Cam, Cousins, Wentz, Luck, Jimmy G, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Goff.     Three got hurt, and in my opinion, only Stafford sucked.  Jimmy G was a huge whiff.  The two others that got hurt were Cam and Wentz, two guys that surprised no one when they missed games.  

How many QB's are typically rostered?  Can you easily get one on waivers?  Even in a 14 teamer, this wasn't a problem for me last year, so i'm never shy about waiting.    

Also, trade market.   Are your co-owners stingy jerks who ask for your 4th best player for their backup QB? Or can you find a trade partner in a pinch?   Its good to make friends sometimes- i've got 2-3 guys that we do favor trades when needed.   Two years ago i had two QB's.  A guy needed one, i gave him Cousins for a slight bargain rather than saying "oh i can't do that, what if blah blah blah".   Last year, was in the same exact boat, he traded me Goff bc he had two good ones, for the same price (keeper picks).   

 

Soooo.... you've got a couple guys that you collude with?  

 

Yall help each other out and give each other good deals and discounts when necessary?

 

I don't think it's absurd either to be a jerk about trading QBs to people who waited on QBs and are in a pinch cause Jameis Winston got benched for Ryan Fitzmagic.  

 

If I'm in redraft, there is like 0% I'm gonna help you out dramatically without you giving me back something that really helps me out.  The difference last year between Jared Goff and Case Keenum (my 14 man league's waiver wire QB) was pretty darn dramatic week in and week out.  You want me to upgrade your QB position 2x then for sure I'm gonna want you to upgrade me at RB or WR more than you think is fair.  

 

That said the Goff owner DID end up trading that Winston owner after it was improbable he wasn't going to make the playoffs and Winston owner offered a 3rd round pick.  Draft pick trading in a keeper league really changes everything IMO.  

Edited by Dreams And Dwightmares

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Just now, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Soooo.... you've got a couple guys that you collude with?  

 

Yall help each other out and give each other good deals and discounts when necessary?

 

I don't think it's absurd either to be a jerk about trading QBs to people who waited on QBs and are in a pinch cause Jameis Winston got benched for Ryan Fitzmagic.  

 

If I'm in redraft, there is like 0% I'm gonna help you out dramatically without you giving me back something that really helps me out.  The difference last year between Jared Goff and Case Keenum (my 14 man league's waiver wire QB) was pretty darn dramatic week in and week out.  You want me to upgrade your QB position 2x then for sure I'm gonna want you to upgrade me at RB or WR more than you think is fair.  

 

That said the Goff owner DID end up trading that Winston owner after it was improbable he wasn't going to make the playoffs and Winston owner offered a 3rd round pick.  Draft pick trading in a keeper league really changes everything IMO.  

 

The way he worded it was alarming lol-  but when u think about it there’s never equal footing in trades.   Especially multi year leagues.    Whether you don’t want to make the top team better...or just don’t see eye to eye with certain owners on value.

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2 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Soooo.... you've got a couple guys that you collude with?  

 

Yall help each other out and give each other good deals and discounts when necessary?

 

I don't think it's absurd either to be a jerk about trading QBs to people who waited on QBs and are in a pinch cause Jameis Winston got benched for Ryan Fitzmagic.  

 

If I'm in redraft, there is like 0% I'm gonna help you out dramatically without you giving me back something that really helps me out.  The difference last year between Jared Goff and Case Keenum (my 14 man league's waiver wire QB) was pretty darn dramatic week in and week out.  You want me to upgrade your QB position 2x then for sure I'm gonna want you to upgrade me at RB or WR more than you think is fair.  

 

That said the Goff owner DID end up trading that Winston owner after it was improbable he wasn't going to make the playoffs and Winston owner offered a 3rd round pick.  Draft pick trading in a keeper league really changes everything IMO.  

 

Its not as if we trade each other stud players to form a super team when one of us fails.   We each got draft picks in the deal for a player.  On the surface, given the plethora of QB's available, there's the argument that its the maximum value you can really get there so me even suggesting its a discount is a stretch.    The "favor" is doing the deal at all, rather than hoarding just to let him burn.   

If you have an issue with it because its helping someone you're competing with, i see the point.  But I promise you if i made a decision to trade the QB i had extra for the best value i could get, it would've been maybe one round up on the draft pick I received.   it was something like my 16th and the QB for his 11th.   

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The success rate of the higher drafted QB's isn't any higher than that of a RB or WR.  Look at Rodgers, Wilson, and Brady last year.  This is usually the only strategy I use as well.

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What's great is playing in a keeper league with rounds attached and being able to draft a QB in the later rounds, who ends up emerging and becoming a star. Then you don't have to worry about QB in the draft at all...unless you want to draft a backup. :) 

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Posted (edited)

I’m really thinking about this strategy in a 2QB league. I made the playoffs last year drafting Jimmy G, stafford, and Andy dalton and I took them all after rounds 6-10. This year all 3 of those QBs are ranked outside the top 17

Edited by Robrob129killa
Grammar

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17 minutes ago, Robrob129killa said:

I’m really thinking about this strategy in a 2QB league. I made the playoffs last year drafting Jimmy G, stafford, and Andy dalton and I took them all after rounds 6-10. This year all 3 of those QBs are ranked outside the top 17

2QB is completely different.  Scarcity and all that.  Depending on the scoring, I would probably take a QB in round 1 and round 2 if I was playing in 2QB.

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16 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

2QB is completely different.  Scarcity and all that.  Depending on the scoring, I would probably take a QB in round 1 and round 2 if I was playing in 2QB.

Wrong! That means the best position player available will be mike Evans. Good wr1 but you miss out on top Rb options 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2019 at 11:00 AM, JHM_13 said:

 

It's really not though. If you remove Mahomies from the conversation because of his outlier year, the difference between 2-15 is like 4 points per game. It's considerably less than other positions. It's a good strategy

This kind of stat is misleading because 4 pts/game doesn't mean your QB will score only 4 pts less every game.  Some days it might be even a closer margin..but some days it will be much worse and can cost you wins. I'm not saying it's really huge, and going low on QBs is a reasonable strategy esp this year, just my .02 on the "it's only X pts per game" thing. 

I'm not sure how I will go with QBs. I am not as high on Mahomes and sure I won't win him, but I get nervous after the top 5ish. 

Edited by bomont

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Robrob129killa said:

I’m really thinking about this strategy in a 2QB league. I made the playoffs last year drafting Jimmy G, stafford, and Andy dalton and I took them all after rounds 6-10. This year all 3 of those QBs are ranked outside the top 17

I use late round QBs in 10 team 2QBs with varied success.  (I am guessing that is what you play because you were able to draft those QBs in middle rounds)  However, with 12 team or 14 team superflex, you have to go early and often.  If you don't secure two QBs in the first four rounds, you are usually stuck starting Flacco/Keenum/Bortles.

Edited by hoppychokes
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1 minute ago, hoppychokes said:

I use late round QBs in 10 team 2QBs with varied success.  (I am guessing that is what you play because you were able to roster an absurd four QBs)  However, with 12 team or 14 team superflex, you have to go early and often.  If you don't secure two QBs in the first four rounds, you are usually stuck starting Flacco/Keenum/Bortles.

It is a 10 team league and I named 3qb jimmy G, staff and dalton. I just feel like the qb position is more based on matchups. I just feel you could grab QBs late this year and still get a ton of value. Guys drafted as top 10 guys last year are now going 10-20 cousins, stafford, wentz, Brady. 

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10 minutes ago, Robrob129killa said:

It is a 10 team league and I named 3qb jimmy G, staff and dalton. I just feel like the qb position is more based on matchups. I just feel you could grab QBs late this year and still get a ton of value. Guys drafted as top 10 guys last year are now going 10-20 cousins, stafford, wentz, Brady. 

Yeah I thought it was four because Jimmy G only lasted a couple games, I caught it on the edit. Who covered your byes?

They might be going that late in order for the position, but I don't think you'll see them leave the sixth round in most 2QB/superflexes.

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