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Bradley Beal 2019-2020 Outlook

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57 minutes ago, Pirate said:

 

If you really think he’s gonna be top 5 and let’s say you have the pick at the turn of the 1st, why not just trade him after a couple of months and maximise that top 5 value?

Because if you're playing in leagues with a decent buy-in then your opponents are also trying to win and operating under the same assumptions you are.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Because if you're playing in leagues with a decent buy-in then your opponents are also trying to win and operating under the same assumptions you are.  

 

Yeah i was thinking that could be a reason someone might respond with. I agree certain managers won’t trade.  However, I think you’ll always find a few managers who are willing take risks and trade for someone with let’s say top 5 value. 

Edited by Pirate

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38 minutes ago, Pirate said:

 

Yeah i was thinking that could be a reason someone might respond with. I agree certain managers won’t trade.  However, I think you’ll always find a few managers who are willing take risks and trade for someone with let’s say top 5 value. 

Someone might trade but idk if you get top 5 value on a trade.  It’s a pointless discussion from my end, however.  I don’t think Beal will be rested.  He played all 82 last year under similar circumstance.  I think I have him at 11th in my rankings. 

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55 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Someone might trade but idk if you get top 5 value on a trade.  It’s a pointless discussion from my end, however.  I don’t think Beal will be rested.  He played all 82 last year under similar circumstance.  I think I have him at 11th in my rankings. 

 

There is no one out there who would give up Steph Harden KAT Giannis AD for Beal unless they're injured.  After that you might get Dame or Kawhi or something.  I agree no rest.  No shutdown.  It's Beal Time baby!  

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On 8/4/2019 at 9:33 AM, Pirate said:

 

If you really think he’s gonna be top 5 and let’s say you have the pick at the turn of the 1st, why not just trade him after a couple of months and maximise that top 5 value?

League votes are the only way I play and it's very rare for any trades to go through in those leagues (especially with my probable #1 seed ;)) I try to not to depend on that but sure would be nice to flip him. Wiz could pull the 8th seed this year which could be a game changer. 1 through 7 playoff seed in west are really set in stone, 7 being spurs, but 8 could be Wiz Pels or OKC unless I'm missing someone so if they're in fighting range 2nd half, he could play the entire season and maybe even be #1 in totals. As much as I'd love Beal and holiday, I'll be staying away due to shut down risk. Once they're out of the playoff race if one stubs their toe, they're out for all of fantasy playoffs. I only do h2h. If I was doing roto I would target beal in the 1st. 

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57 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

League votes are the only way I play and it's very rare for any trades to go through in those leagues (especially with my probable #1 seed ;)) I try to not to depend on that but sure would be nice to flip him. Wiz could pull the 8th seed this year which could be a game changer. 1 through 7 playoff seed in west are really set in stone, 7 being spurs, but 8 could be Wiz Pels or OKC unless I'm missing someone so if they're in fighting range 2nd half, he could play the entire season and maybe even be #1 in totals. As much as I'd love Beal and holiday, I'll be staying away due to shut down risk. Once they're out of the playoff race if one stubs their toe, they're out for all of fantasy playoffs. I only do h2h. If I was doing roto I would target beal in the 1st. 

Wiz are east ;)

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24 minutes ago, Chrizz said:

Wiz are east ;)

Hahahaha oh wow you're right I was thinking Washington not Washington DC they have just been so irrelevant for years I haven't payed any attention to them. So that actually changes my mind quite a bit... actually entirely. That means they should make the playoffs and I don't see Beal sitting at all minus a few rest games but still predict 75+ games. He's not a shutdown risk now and I totally take back everything I said. Top 10 pick, I think he finishes around 5. 

Thank you sir. 

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6 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

Hahahaha oh wow you're right I was thinking Washington not Washington DC they have just been so irrelevant for years I haven't payed any attention to them. So that actually changes my mind quite a bit... actually entirely. That means they should make the playoffs and I don't see Beal sitting at all minus a few rest games but still predict 75+ games. He's not a shutdown risk now and I totally take back everything I said. Top 10 pick, I think he finishes around 5. 

Thank you sir. 

You're struggling here man, first you think the Wizards are from Washington state and then that "these" wizards are a probable for the playoffs. No doubt after the offseason that just happened the West is stronger, but the East top 8 are far from bad and there are a couple nice rising teams (Magic and the Nets, with two other teams with upside: Hawks and Bulls). IMO Wizards are rank outsiders to make the playoffs. Beal is good, but that is a one-man show right now. After Beal they are straight trash unless IT2 raises from the ashes of being soulessly crushed by the Celtics. That is a 35 win team at best. Are you trying to tell me Beal is going to get enough help from CJ Miles, Thomas Bryant, Mahinmi, Wagner, Tony Brown, a broken IT2, Ish Smith and Davis Bertrans?! Yuk...

I think there are clear tears in the East (And this is about the order I pick them to finish):

Tear 1: Bucks, 76ers

Tear 2: Raptors, Cel£ics, Pacers

Tear 3: Magic, Heat, Nets, Pistons

Tear 4: Hawks, Bulls, Wizards, Cavs, Knicks 

Beal should have a big big year (Top 15), but there is injury risk (he is going to be asked to do A LOT!!!), shut-down risk and there is trade risk (Although he should hold his own post trade if that happened). Nonetheless, like I say he is a top 15-20 target for me.
But, man the Wizards from DC are gonna be BAD (and not Bad as in "Pascal Siakam is a Bad Man..." just BAD). Magic, Heat, Nets and Pistons are pretty darn decent hoops team (esp. Magic - for me they are an outside shot at bumping up a tear).

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1 hour ago, Jake the snake said:

Beal should have a big big year (Top 15), but there is injury risk (he is going to be asked to do A LOT!!!), shut-down risk and there is trade risk (Although he should hold his own post trade if that happened). Nonetheless, like I say he is a top 15-20 target for me.
But, man the Wizards from DC are gonna be BAD (and not Bad as in "Pascal Siakam is a Bad Man..." just BAD). Magic, Heat, Nets and Pistons are pretty darn decent hoops team (esp. Magic - for me they are an outside shot at bumping up a tear).

 

I'm going to say Beal is no more of an injury or shutdown risk than any other player in the league.  In fact, he's the exact opposite - he's one of the most durable, most dependable players in the league after playing all 82 games for 2 years in a row.  He could have easily sat games last year, pretended to be hurt, rest, or shutdown completely when their season was cooked but demanded to play every game and as many minutes as possible.  

 

I'm thinking on this subject - reading these forums, and now everyone is suddenly a shut down risk.  In reality there's only a very small handful of players who are true shutdown risks, and most actual shutdowns can't be predicted until player x actually gets hurt, or team x is definitely not making playoffs and are in tank mode...

 

I challenge anyone here to make a list of "shutdown" candidates, and we can see who actually gets "shutdown" at end of year.  I would be interested to see the results!

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1 hour ago, Jake the snake said:

You're struggling here man, first you think the Wizards are from Washington state and then that "these" wizards are a probable for the playoffs. No doubt after the offseason that just happened the West is stronger, but the East top 8 are far from bad and there are a couple nice rising teams (Magic and the Nets, with two other teams with upside: Hawks and Bulls). IMO Wizards are rank outsiders to make the playoffs. Beal is good, but that is a one-man show right now. After Beal they are straight trash unless IT2 raises from the ashes of being soulessly crushed by the Celtics. That is a 35 win team at best. Are you trying to tell me Beal is going to get enough help from CJ Miles, Thomas Bryant, Mahinmi, Wagner, Tony Brown, a broken IT2, Ish Smith and Davis Bertrans?! Yuk...

I think there are clear tears in the East (And this is about the order I pick them to finish):

Tear 1: Bucks, 76ers

Tear 2: Raptors, Cel£ics, Pacers

Tear 3: Magic, Heat, Nets, Pistons

Tear 4: Hawks, Bulls, Wizards, Cavs, Knicks 

Beal should have a big big year (Top 15), but there is injury risk (he is going to be asked to do A LOT!!!), shut-down risk and there is trade risk (Although he should hold his own post trade if that happened). Nonetheless, like I say he is a top 15-20 target for me.
But, man the Wizards from DC are gonna be BAD (and not Bad as in "Pascal Siakam is a Bad Man..." just BAD). Magic, Heat, Nets and Pistons are pretty darn decent hoops team (esp. Magic - for me they are an outside shot at bumping up a tear).

I flip flopped but I still stand by my most recent comment after realizing their in the east. I disagree about those outsider teams. Magic aren't winners, they dont have a playmaker capable of taking them there and that is absolutely key in modern NBA. Same with pistons. They have 2 solid big men and no one to playmake and set the tone for the game. Those teams NEVER win. Name one good team in the past 5 years that did very well with only a star big man or 2 and no star playmaker. I personally cannot think of even 1 team. The nets will make the playoffs with kyrie and levert healthy no doubt. The heat are going to be a let down big time because although Jimmy is decent, whiteside isn't going to cut it, will be injured not play defense and Jimmy is very very far from being a winning player even if his fantasy stats are elite this year. Every single great team in the modern nba always has one thing in common, a star playmaker. Vuc cant do it on his own, Griffin/drum cant, Jimmy can't, kyrie can. Pacers are extremely over rated this year too for the same exact reason as before... no star playmaker until dipo comes back and dipo was pretty bad when he did come back last year. It will take pacers half of a season to get their game together and they will be one of the better teams with a poor seed. Collinson would have done the trick but his dumbass quit the NBA to do God worshipping stuff or something lmao. Brogdon was an amazing find for them and he may be their saving grace but hes far from a star playmaker. It will be enough to get them within the top 8 and then they will actually be a great team late season if healthy. 

 

My predictions:

1) 76ers

2) Bucks

3) Raptors 

4) Celtics 

5) Nets

6) Pacers 

7) Wizards 

😎 anyone... 

At least that's what I've seen in the NBA. Bigs never win anything ever, period, unless they have someone special setting them up. This is why you're going to see Lakers dominate with lebron and AD while before, the pelicans were one of the worst teams in the NBA. They had holiday but hes not a winner or a star, although I love him in fantasy. 

Beal could get injured for sure but its more likely steph/kyrie/butler do. A star playmaker creates organization and prevents chaos and brings out the best in others. After the 6th seed, doesn't look like theres a single player out there capable of leading a great TEAM. Orlando has some pieces but I don't see it happening until they get a playmaker in the mix. 

Either way it's probably gonna be a tight race for seeds 6 through 8 in the east so we might be seeing all of them play as well as put up season on the line stats in fantasy playoffs. I don't see why you're so high on Orlando tbh. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

The heat are going to be a let down big time because although Jimmy is decent, whiteside isn't going to cut it, will be injured not play defense and Jimmy is very very far from being a winning player even if his fantasy stats are elite this year.  

Brah, you're not really Mr. Current Affairs are you? ... Just like the wizards not being in Washington state, whiteside isn't in Miami. Try Portlandia... That's about the end of this discussion sorry... 

As for Beal @hipriest69. I like him a lot and like I said he is a top 15 target with 1st round upside for mine. But there are risks. Injuries for stars on shallow teams that lean heavily on them do happen a lot (Curry too is a extra risk this year, but he is still probably a top 3 pick). Nonetheless, You can't play fantasy without risks, just stating with Beal I think the injury and shutdown risks are greater than in previous years. I'd still love to have him on my team... (a top 10 pick might be just a little rich for me though) 

Edited by Jake the snake
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1 minute ago, johnval1362 said:

I flip flopped but I still stand by my most recent comment after realizing their in the east. I disagree about those outsider teams. Magic aren't winners, they dont have a playmaker capable of taking them there and that is absolutely key in modern NBA. Same with pistons. They have 2 solid big men and no one to playmake and set the tone for the game. Those teams NEVER win. Name one good team in the past 5 years that did very well with only a star big man or 2 and no star playmaker. I personally cannot think of even 1 team. The nets will make the playoffs with kyrie and levert healthy no doubt. The heat are going to be a let down big time because although Jimmy is decent, whiteside isn't going to cut it, will be injured not play defense and Jimmy is very very far from being a winning player even if his fantasy stats are elite this year. Every single great team in the modern nba always has one thing in common, a star playmaker. Vuc cant do it on his own, Griffin/drum cant, Jimmy can't, kyrie can. Pacers are extremely over rated this year too for the same exact reason as before... no star playmaker until dipo comes back and dipo was pretty bad when he did come back last year. It will take pacers half of a season to get their game together and they will be one of the better teams with a poor seed. Collinson would have done the trick but his dumbass quit the NBA to do God worshipping stuff or something lmao. Brogdon was an amazing find for them and he may be their saving grace but hes far from a star playmaker. It will be enough to get them within the top 8 and then they will actually be a great team late season if healthy. 

 

My predictions:

1) 76ers

2) Bucks

3) Raptors 

4) Celtics 

5) Nets

6) Pacers 

7) Wizards 

😎 anyone... 

At least that's what I've seen in the NBA. Bigs never win anything ever, period, unless they have someone special setting them up. This is why you're going to see Lakers dominate with lebron and AD while before, the pelicans were one of the worst teams in the NBA. They had holiday but hes not a winner or a star, although I love him in fantasy. 

Beal could get injured for sure but its more likely steph/kyrie/butler do. A star playmaker creates organization and prevents chaos and brings out the best in others. After the 6th seed, doesn't look like theres a single player out there capable of leading a great TEAM. Orlando has some pieces but I don't see it happening until they get a playmaker in the mix. 

Either way it's probably gonna be a tight race for seeds 6 through 8 in the east so we might be seeing all of them play as well as put up season on the line stats in fantasy playoffs. I don't see why you're so high on Orlando tbh. 

 

 

 

 

I'm so sorry, the Magic were one of the best teams in the entire league in the 2nd half of last season.  I would bet every penny I have right now on them to make the playoffs over the Wizards.  They are also probably better than Detroit and Miami as well.   22-9 down the stretch last year...a lot of wins against bad teams but they also beat a bunch of great teams - Indiana twice, Golden State, Toronto, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Miami, and Boston.   They also put up a fight against Toronto in the playoffs.  I wouldn't count them out so easily.  

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12 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

Brah, you're not really Mr. Current Affairs are you? ... Just like the wizards not being in Washington state, whiteside isn't in Miami. Try Portlandia... That's about the end of this discussion sorry... 

As for Beal @hipriest69. I like him a lot and like I said he is a top 15 target with 1st round upside for mine. But there are risks. Injuries for stars on shallow teams that lean heavily on them do happen a lot (Curry too is a extra risk this year, but he is still probably a top 3 pick). Nonetheless, You can't play fantasy without risks, just stating with Beal I think the injury and shutdown risks are greater than in previous years. I'd still love to have him on my team... (a top 10 pick might be just a little rich for me though) 

Lol I forgot about whiteside. Haven't been paying that much attention to trades. My projections remain the same, pulling the heat even further from contention and strengthening the wizards chances. Magic aren't s---, they need a playmaker. 

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1 hour ago, johnval1362 said:

Magic aren't s---, they need a playmaker. 

 

They re-signed one:

https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2019/06/30/report-nikola-vucevic-re-sign-magic

Their offense is space the floor and let Vuc makes decisions. Which is their own version of what Denver does with Jokic and it works.

Him and Embiid are reasons why TOR traded for Marc (and he contained both). They split the season series with the champs (Danny green of all people hit a game winner - otherwise it couldve been 3-1 Magic) and won 17 more games than they did a season prior.

Last season, they were 8th in defensive rating and in opp. points in the paint, 3rd in def reb and in opponents points off TO (they are an effective transition D team).

This is a well coached team! No, they aren’t contenders (but if they trade for CP3 or upgrade Fournier, they could be a top 3 team in the east) but they are very much in the playoff picture over the LOL Wizards of all teams.

PHI, MIL, BKN, TOR, IND, ORL, BOS are the Eastern locks assuming health

 

DET, CHI, MIA, NY and ATL will fight for the last seed

Beal, IT2, Thomas Bryant and Rui are ultimately not enough talent to make the playoffs this season, especially with SCOTT BROOKS at the helm

 

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12 minutes ago, Mikhov said:

 

They re-signed one:

https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2019/06/30/report-nikola-vucevic-re-sign-magic

Their offense is space the floor and let Vuc makes decisions. Which is their own version of what Denver does with Jokic and it works.

Him and Embiid are reasons why TOR traded for Marc (and he contained both). They split the season series with the champs (Danny green of all people hit a game winner - otherwise it couldve been 3-1 Magic) and won 17 more games than they did a season prior.

Last season, they were 8th in defensive rating and in opp. points in the paint, 3rd in def reb and in opponents points off TO (they are an effective transition D team).

This is a well coached team! No, they aren’t contenders (but if they trade for CP3 or upgrade Fournier, they could be a top 3 team in the east) but they are very much in the playoff picture over the LOL Wizards of all teams.

PHI, MIL, BKN, TOR, IND, ORL, BOS are the Eastern locks assuming health

 

DET, CHI, MIA, NY and ATL will fight for the last seed

Beal, IT2, Thomas Bryant and Rui are ultimately not enough talent to make the playoffs this season, especially with SCOTT BROOKS at the helm

 

Vuc is not jokic, passing isn't even close but that's a good point. Orlando doesnt have the depth that Denver has. Jokic has a million solid options to pass to. Vuc has streaky Terrance Ross and streaky even Fournier and still unproven Isaac. Is there someone I'm missing here? If they trade for CP3 they jump up dramatically. Maybe I'm wrong here but even if Orlando makes 7 or 8, theres still one more very up in the air 8th seed, which I still think goes to orlando after 7 wiz, but I'd bet a lot of money wiz make playoffs in the east, being 7th or 8th seed. 

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15 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

Vuc is not jokic, passing isn't even close but that's a good point. Orlando doesnt have the depth that Denver has. Jokic has a million solid options to pass to. Vuc has streaky Terrance Ross and streaky even Fournier and still unproven Isaac. Is there someone I'm missing here? If they trade for CP3 they jump up dramatically. Maybe I'm wrong here but even if Orlando makes 7 or 8, theres still one more very up in the air 8th seed, which I still think goes to orlando after 7 wiz, but I'd bet a lot of money wiz make playoffs in the east, being 7th or 8th seed. 

 

He’s not, but he makes smart plays nonetheless - but my point is that both teams run their offense through a big.

Also wanted to point out that they didnt just randomly stumble into the playoffs, they developed as a team:

Two seasons ago they were one of the better teams in the first half of the season, faded and missed out. This past season, they improved dramatically (17 more wins reflect that) and put up a fight vs the eventual champions. 

You missed Aaron Gordon, but you’re right; their pieces are all streaky - but they are held together by their defense, not their offense. Clifford is a good coach IMO, nobody accidentally ends up top 10 in defense or top 3 in multiple defensive categories. 

Hey man if you believe the wiz will make it, so be it: just wanted to point out that Orlando isn’t a trash team. They will probably win less games this season as they wont catch people off guard anymore, but they will be solid and a lot of their pieces could still develop.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, johnval1362 said:

 Is there someone I'm missing here?

Yes, Aaron Gordon. Growing as a scorer and playmaker. Easily their best player in the playoffs (and defended really well). Post-All-Star numbers 16.5/7.5/4.1/0.7/0.9 with 1.9 TOs 1.7 threes and 46/37/73% (Ranked 63rd on totals post all-star). Teams don't need a dominant PG anymore (76ers were the closest to beating the Raptors basically with Jimmy Butler running their point against the Raptors). You just need lots of length and guys that are savy ball handlers and distributors. Magic have enough in Gordon, Vuce, Fournier, and DJ (and dare I say maybe Fultz...?! Gulp...)

I got him begged as one of my breakout guys this year. I think it is the year he gets it together and becomes an all-star and bumps the magic up into the 2nd tear in the east. I predict top 50 for Gordon with a little upside beyond that.

Anyway Beal...good player! Still the Seattle Wizards aren't making the playoffs! Mark my words folks...

Edited by Jake the snake
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, johnval1362 said:

Magic aren't winners, they dont have a playmaker capable of taking them there and that is absolutely key in modern NBA. Same with pistons. They have 2 solid big men and no one to playmake and set the tone for the game. Those teams NEVER win. Name one good team in the past 5 years that did very well with only a star big man or 2 and no star playmaker. I personally cannot think of even 1 team...

... Every single great team in the modern nba always has one thing in common, a star playmaker. Vuc cant do it on his own, Griffin/drum cant, Jimmy can't...

... Brogdon was an amazing find for them and he may be their saving grace but hes far from a star playmaker. It will be enough to get them within the top 8 and then they will actually be a great team late season if healthy. 

 

 

Can you explain what you mean by the term "playmaker"? Vuc/Aaron Gordon are playmakers. Not sure if you've watched in the last few years but Blake Griffin has evolved his game where he is considered a "playmaker". Jimmy Butler is the very definition of a guy who makes plays - and often big ones in the clutch. Brogdon is a playmaker - he might be boring and steady, but he's absolutely a "playmaker", and overshadowed arguably bigger names like Eric Bledsoe and George Hill during the year and especially in the playoffs.

And while you're at it, can you explain what you mean by "did very well"? People in here were talking about making the playoffs in the East - you don't have to do "very well" to get into the playoffs in the East, and teams like Orlando and Miami and Detroit will be feasting on the likes of the Wizards, Bulls, Hornets, Knicks, Hawks and Cavs many times this year to get there.

 

That said, Bradley Beal will have a very good year, and while I can see a shutdown risk for tanking purposes, I see him less as an injury risk because historically he's been pretty solid. I'd draft round 2 in certain builds, probably more for roto but he'll put up numbers, and will be incentivized to do so since he didn't accept the contract extension yet (and he shouldn't)

Edited by SirMixalot
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He obviously means a traditional PG 😁cause apparently guards can only make plays these days

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1 hour ago, SirMixalot said:

 

Can you explain what you mean by the term "playmaker"? Vuc/Aaron Gordon are playmakers. Not sure if you've watched in the last few years but Blake Griffin has evolved his game where he is considered a "playmaker". Jimmy Butler is the very definition of a guy who makes plays - and often big ones in the clutch. Brogdon is a playmaker - he might be boring and steady, but he's absolutely a "playmaker", and overshadowed arguably bigger names like Eric Bledsoe and George Hill during the year and especially in the playoffs.

And while you're at it, can you explain what you mean by "did very well"? People in here were talking about making the playoffs in the East - you don't have to do "very well" to get into the playoffs in the East, and teams like Orlando and Miami and Detroit will be feasting on the likes of the Wizards, Bulls, Hornets, Knicks, Hawks and Cavs many times this year to get there.

 

That said, Bradley Beal will have a very good year, and while I can see a shutdown risk for tanking purposes, I see him less as an injury risk because historically he's been pretty solid. I'd draft round 2 in certain builds, probably more for roto but he'll put up numbers, and will be incentivized to do so since he didn't accept the contract extension yet (and he shouldn't)

I said "star playmaker" not playmaker. I am sort of referring to PG but really just someone who can hopefully, but not necessarily bring the ball up the floor and lead the teams direction and control the flow of the game with high usage. It doesnt need to be a small player it could be any position, pg, sg,sf,point forward, C. But sorry vucevic and Gordon are not star playmakers they're good players who can KIND of pass. They're both averaging 3.5 to 3.7 assists per game. That's not nearly good enough to consider them a true playmaker. They just pass sometimes and it's a nice bonus because they're out of position for them. Notice how jokic gets 8 assists per game with triple doubles. Don't you dare compare vuc to jokic, vuc isn't worth enough to shine jokics shoes. So yeah, they're not playmakers they're a sf/pf and C who get a handful of assists a game. Absolutely not the same. 

And i said a star playmaker. Jimmy butler is not a star playmaker, he is a playmaker though. Hes just not good enough to ever make a real difference on his own and the heat won't cut it with just him. But he would qualify if he had some better players around him to pass too. The same doesnt apply for beal because beal is way better than Jimmy and is a superstar playmaker while Jimmy is just a good playmaker. 

Same with brogdon like I said before, he is a playmaker but not a star playmaker and therefore the Pacers wont cut it until dipo arrives. Teams need that guy the other team is scared of when hes running up the court with the ball. The lebrons the steph's the draymonds etc. KAT and AD Embiid are all great players. They cant be part of a winning team without help. You're better off with Chris Paul NOW and scrubs then you are AD and scrubs. The Chris Paul team will do better. 

Now find me one team that wins without a star playmaker? None of you can and its silly to vuc or Gordon one when they get 3 assists a game lmao. 

Jokics nuggets are championship contenders because of their superstar playmaker big man. vuc is NOT the same, hes just trying to be, what's why it needs to be an all star capable passer. You put jokic on Orlando and they get way better. Orlando isn't even a top team in the east and might not make the playoffs in the weaker conference. And you all reminding me of how good Gordon is (yes hes got potential I forgot about him) is the same situation. 3 assists a game is not playmaking that's a guy who passes normally. Fournier gets like 3 assists a game Ross gets like 2 isaac gets like none. This poor passing Orlando team doesnt have a chance. 

The whole C big man thing who can pass is a great bonus, but not a go to and not a winning combination unless you're incredibly special like Jokic. Even Blake Griffin is great passing big, but he doesn't make the cut as a playmaker, hes a big that can pass, like gasol. Notice how Detroit cant make playoffs even with 2 monsters at pf and C? No star playmaker... yes it mostly means PG but theres lebron types that fit that mold too, kawhis and giannis types. Giannis isn't a PG hes a sf pf star playmaker with extremely high usage. 

I can't explain patterns if you're all too dumb to recognize them. Every single good team ever has a star playmaker always. Never not a common theme. Orlando doesn't, 3.5 assists isn't playmaking thats spreading the buck too much, one player needs to take control and they have no one to do that to push them into an elite team. Jokic is an exception to every rule. No one else gets that exception. If vuc starts putting up triple doubles and not 3 assists a game I'll be wrong. 

 

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33 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

I can't explain patterns if you're all too dumb to recognize them. Every single good team ever has a star playmaker always. Never not a common theme. Orlando doesn't, 3.5 assists isn't playmaking thats spreading the buck too much, one player needs to take control and they have no one to do that to push them into an elite team. Jokic is an exception to every rule. No one else gets that exception. If vuc starts putting up triple doubles and not 3 assists a game I'll be wrong.  

 

And yet Orlando, without their "Star Playmaker" made the playoffs last year on the likes of DJ Augustin running point. So did the Pistons, without their "Star Playmaker" they made the playoffs using Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith. Nobody above was talking about winning the championship. They're just talking about making the playoffs, and you're somehow ignoring all of this to make your point.

Calling everyone "dumb" because they're rightly stating that there are better teams in the East than the Wizards is kind of dumb... Know what else is dumb? Thinking that the Wizards is a West coast team... 😂

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, johnval1362 said:

The same doesnt apply for beal because beal is way better than Jimmy and is a superstar playmaker while Jimmy is just a good playmaker. 

Teams need that guy the other team is scared of when hes running up the court with the ball.

You're better off with Chris Paul NOW and scrubs then you are AD and scrubs. The Chris Paul team will do better. 

Now find me one team that wins without a star playmaker?

I can't explain patterns if you're all too dumb to recognize them. Every single good team ever has a star playmaker always. Never not a common theme.

 

So much to digest here so I will take a few. 

Beal is not a superstar playmaker. Teams do not fear Beal when he is “running up the court with the ball.” Beal is really good. Not elite. He can’t carry a contender (edit: meant to say can’t carry a team, not contender) to anything.

Also especially at this point in his career, Chris Paul and scrubs is not winning more than AD and scrubs. To use your fear analogy, no one fears Chris Paul now. He can help a contender sure. But he doesn’t make a team a contender.

As for “find me one team that wins without a star playmaker” and “every single good team ever has a star playmaker always”, do you mean teams that have won the championship or just teams that make solid playoff runs?

Having an elite playmaker is important to becoming a contender I agree. Great teams have great players and great non-big men throughout history have been great playmakers. It’s part of what separates them from the pack. But being a contender without one can be done. Big men throughout history have done so. 

If it’s championships, 1993-1994 Rockets won without a star playmaker so there the one you said can’t be named. If it’s solid playoff runs, I can name more throughout history. Dominique Atlanta Hawks. Early to mid 90s Knicks. Pre-Duncan David Robinson 90s Spurs. To name a few. Or are we just talking current NBA?

 

Edited by Tekno Team 2000

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Butler is a top 12 player in the league and you can make an argument for him being in the top 10 depending on your criteria. 

Here's a life tip though, if you find yourself in a room where everyone is disagreeing with you and you call them out for being idiots, it's very likely that you are in fact the fool. 🙃

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Bradley Beal played out of his mind when John Wall went down, he got a taste of what its like to feel that double coverage and different defensive schemes as the primary option on offense. Its great for his development coming into this season. I believe he is gonna do his best to show he deserves the SUPERMAX contract that he is about to try and obtain through his play in the 2019-2020 NBA SEASON. Thats exciting especially since the East is still wide open and his division is very weak. If you are the #2 Guard in the league he should be able to carry his team to the playoffs the same way Kobe would do 😁

If hes shut down will his amount of games play be looked at in terms of determining his ALL NBA Selection or ALL Star Selection. These play a big factor in his next contract so i doubt he will be toning it down. He got a taste of what its like to drive the Ferrari in the NBA & his skillset is tuned up. 31ppg 52% fg, he turned it up after the all star break.  

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2 hours ago, Tekno Team 2000 said:

 

So much to digest here so I will take a few. 

Beal is not a superstar playmaker. Teams do not fear Beal when he is “running up the court with the ball.” Beal is really good. Not elite. He can’t carry a contender (edit: meant to say can’t carry a team, not contender) to anything.

Also especially at this point in his career, Chris Paul and scrubs is not winning more than AD and scrubs. To use your fear analogy, no one fears Chris Paul now. He can help a contender sure. But he doesn’t make a team a contender.

As for “find me one team that wins without a star playmaker” and “every single good team ever has a star playmaker always”, do you mean teams that have won the championship or just teams that make solid playoff runs?

Having an elite playmaker is important to becoming a contender I agree. Great teams have great players and great non-big men throughout history have been great playmakers. It’s part of what separates them from the pack. But being a contender without one can be done. Big men throughout history have done so. 

If it’s championships, 1993-1994 Rockets won without a star playmaker so there the one you said can’t be named. If it’s solid playoff runs, I can name more throughout history. Dominique Atlanta Hawks. Early to mid 90s Knicks. Pre-Duncan David Robinson 90s Spurs. To name a few. Or are we just talking current NBA?

 

I may be giving old Chris Paul too much credit but 2,3 years ago yes. I think every team needs that captain type that really excels with usage. That foundational playmaker.

I'm talking modern NBA. Sure you can go back to the 90s but todays game is different. Think last 5 years. I cant think of a single team that was a champpinbsuop team or deep playoff run teamthat wasn't lead by a star playmaking high usage player. The celtics got lucky a couple years ago that was a fluke run, can't think of another. I still think Orlando will make 7th or 8th seed, just believe the wizards are better with just beal vs the entire Orlando lineup unless someone on their team steps up or Beal gets injured too many games to contend for a seed. He played 82 last season. My prediction, I just think wizards will get it done. 

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