Trench Mob

Draymond Green 2019-2020 Outlook

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He really is worth more. Good deal by the Warriors.

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10 minutes ago, Trench Mob said:

 

He really is worth more. Good deal by the Warriors.

He is but who wants to play for the (Hornets, Memphis, Bulls, Hawks, Cavs or Raptors)

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16 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

He is but who wants to play for the (Hornets, Memphis, Bulls, Hawks, Cavs or Raptors)

I get your point, but Charlotte, Memphis, and Cleveland aren't in the same boat as the other three.

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19 hours ago, RedDogNamedClippers said:

He is but who wants to play for the (Hornets, Memphis, Bulls, Hawks, Cavs or Raptors)

 

Hard to disagree with any of those. Hornets and the Hawks do have nice uniforms and court design though. That's about it.

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Yeah thats nuts! he left ~100m on the table (and another 35 if he wins DPOY). Probably knew he wasn’t going to get paid anywhere near that, but atleast this issue will not distract the warriors this season.

I take this as him locking in, unwilling to play for anyone else - should be primed for a great season assuming health.

12ppg (46% fg, 70% ft), 1.4 3PM, 8 rpg, 8 apg, 2 spg and 1 bpg with 3 TO IMO

He should dramatically gain usage and see a spike in assists because no more KD iso’s and iggy at the 4, DLO will likely be spotting up and WCS will be rim running - this team will play free flowing and fast as hell

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On 8/3/2019 at 2:01 PM, RedDogNamedClippers said:

He is but who wants to play for the (Hornets, Memphis, Bulls, Hawks, Cavs or Raptors)

Fyi, Raptors are champions #wethechamps

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:44 AM, Gile Pile said:

Fyi, Raptors are champions #wethechamps

piece of bull#$$^ :b

Anyway a recent roto blurb says: "Draymond Green said he's back on his playoff diet and said there's no doubt he'll have a great year."

This season finally looks like a challenge and Green's been a roto juggernaut for my teams in past 5 seasons - 5x1st place (4 in dynasty), 1x2nd - last season :(. Draft accordingly.

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2 hours ago, michael_scott said:

piece of bull#$$^ 😛

It does not change the fact that Raptors are the champions and Warriors are not.

#wethechamps 😀

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18 minutes ago, Gile Pile said:

It does not change the fact that Raptors are the champions and Warriors are not.

#wethechamps 😀

piece of bull#$$^ still but let's get over it. Would you pick Green or Siakam this season is much more interesting to me ;)

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40 minutes ago, michael_scott said:

piece of bull#$$^ still but let's get over it. Would you pick Green or Siakam this season is much more interesting to me ;)

Too different to compare really.  Siakam projects to be 20+/8/4 efficiently but is weak at stocks.  I think Draymond will be top 30 this year on 12/8/7 with 1.5/1.5/1.5 potential or close to it.  He’s like having two players on your team: a top 50 big and a top 50 point guard.  Downside is his scoring sucks and he’s inefficient.  If you pick Draymond in the third it’s hard to not punt points.  Now in the punt points/FT build Draymond is gold.  

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1 hour ago, michael_scott said:

piece of bull#$$^ still but let's get over it. Would you pick Green or Siakam this season is much more interesting to me ;)

 BBM has Siakam at 26 and   Green at 74 for last season. Opportunity is there for both of them, so it comes to which player  you prefer.

I prefer Siakam 100% of the time. I might be little biased, because I am his biggest fan and #wethechamps

If you go with Green, punting is more likely and I don't like to be  (semi) forced into punting after first 3 rounds

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7 hours ago, Gile Pile said:

 BBM has Siakam at 26 and   Green at 74 for last season. Opportunity is there for both of them, so it comes to which player  you prefer.

I prefer Siakam 100% of the time. I might be little biased, because I am his biggest fan and #wethechamps

If you go with Green, punting is more likely and I don't like to be  (semi) forced into punting after first 3 rounds

How is punting more likely with Green? He literally gets you every stat except points. I think you're still high from the raptors winning the chip.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Rbra4176 said:

He literally gets you every stat except points.

 

Well he isn't exactly a 3 point sharpshooter either. But 3's are the easiest category to make up, so it's moot.

 

Edited by Trench Mob

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14 minutes ago, a-rob said:

 

I don't like it when people say I draft Jokic to punt blocks, I draft Draymond to punt points. Why?? He is occupying one spot only! IMO, the only right thing to say is I draft - Shaq, Dwight, Ben Wallace, DeAndre Jordan- to punt FT%. Because out of all the standard cats, FT% is the only one that is hard to recover when you have a big who is terrible at FT% and shoots at high volume.

When you draft Jokic you enjoy the 7 cats he is good at, you don't punt blocks, you build on blocks later on the draft because later you can afford to pass on say a Chris Paul to draft Myles Turner because Jokic already gives you 7apg. Why would you punt blocks just because Jokic can't give you 1bpg??

Same thing with Draymond, why would you punt points just because Dray can't get you 18ppg? Dray gives you rebs, assists, steals, blocks. When in the first 2 rounds you manage to draft 2 high scoring gys perhaps like Embiid and Booker, Draymond would be an excellent pick at round 3, and you don't have to punt points. 

The notion that you punt a cat because you draft guys like Jokic Dray is ridiculous.

Last season he scored only 7,4 pts which would be an obvious drag in this category, but this season I'm hoping he's capable of even doubling this number and if he truly returns in playoff shape then he could be more valuable than Siakam.

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2 hours ago, a-rob said:

 

I don't like it when people say I draft Jokic to punt blocks, I draft Draymond to punt points. Why?? He is occupying one spot only! IMO, the only right thing to say is I draft - Shaq, Dwight, Ben Wallace, DeAndre Jordan- to punt FT%. Because out of all the standard cats, FT% is the only one that is hard to recover when you have a big who is terrible at FT% and shoots at high volume.

When you draft Jokic you enjoy the 7 cats he is good at, you don't punt blocks, you build on blocks later on the draft because later you can afford to pass on say a Chris Paul to draft Myles Turner because Jokic already gives you 7apg. Why would you punt blocks just because Jokic can't give you 1bpg??

Same thing with Draymond, why would you punt points just because Dray can't get you 18ppg? Dray gives you rebs, assists, steals, blocks. When in the first 2 rounds you manage to draft 2 high scoring gys perhaps like Embiid and Booker, Draymond would be an excellent pick at round 3, and you don't have to punt points. 

The notion that you punt a cat because you draft guys like Jokic Dray is ridiculous.

What you said about Jokic is 100% true: absolutely no reason to punt blocks. To punt points with Draymond makes some sense, but I agree that you can just avoid it by drafting later some PTS/threes specialists, because then you maybe don't need much AST/REB/STL anymore if you have Draymond and some other early round studs.

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5 hours ago, a-rob said:

 

I don't like it when people say I draft Jokic to punt blocks, I draft Draymond to punt points. Why?? He is occupying one spot only! IMO, the only right thing to say is I draft - Shaq, Dwight, Ben Wallace, DeAndre Jordan- to punt FT%. Because out of all the standard cats, FT% is the only one that is hard to recover when you have a big who is terrible at FT% and shoots at high volume.

When you draft Jokic you enjoy the 7 cats he is good at, you don't punt blocks, you build on blocks later on the draft because later you can afford to pass on say a Chris Paul to draft Myles Turner because Jokic already gives you 7apg. Why would you punt blocks just because Jokic can't give you 1bpg??

Same thing with Draymond, why would you punt points just because Dray can't get you 18ppg? Dray gives you rebs, assists, steals, blocks. When in the first 2 rounds you manage to draft 2 high scoring gys perhaps like Embiid and Booker, Draymond would be an excellent pick at round 3, and you don't have to punt points. 

The notion that you punt a cat because you draft guys like Jokic Dray is ridiculous.

Because when you actually do a lot of mocks and play 20 leagues then trends become apparent, particularly when you’re playing against other adept opponents.

 

You’re not paying attention to opportunity costs. If you pick a 20 ppg player in the first round such as Jokic and everyone else is drafting 28 ppg players then you’re behind 8 points from the rest of the league.  How are you going to make that up?  By drafting a guy such as Booker, right?  Well now if you’re punting TO.  Not to mention his other weaknesses.  Ofc you can draft someone like Butler and LMA in the next two rounds, like I did, and stay around the median.  Then you’re not punting.   But if you’re picking someone who is weak relative to others then you either have to deliberately try to make it up on other rounds, or if you don’t want to limit yourself that way, resign yourself to being mediocre in that cat.  Whether you call that “punting”’or not, the label isn’t important. 

 

But I agree, it’s better to focus on what the player is good at then when what he’s not.  Eg Jokic is going a long way to win assists/steals and the efficiency cats.  The players most likely to come back in the second round are either bigs or littles like Butler/Jrue.  If you take a little then you’re way ahead in assists/steals.  While pairing some bigs with Jokic have you crushing rebounds/blocks while still doing ok in assists/steals without ever having a point guard. 

 

Whereas, Draymond pushing you into punt points is a little more obvious.  Even in the fourth round there are 22 ppg players compared to Draymonds 12ppg.  Points also dry up quickly.  How are you going to make up 10 ppg in the fifth round and beyond?  I’m not going to overdraft Lavine or wiggins later and hurt myself in multiple cats to try to win points.

 

Again.  Some of you are operating under the assumption that punting means doing deliberately poorly in a cat for some reason.  Really it’s just admitting well I know I’m not going to be the best in this cat so let’s focus on other things.  Somehow you’ve assigned a stigma in your own mind about punting and therefore refuse to admit you’re doing it.  

 

If you don’t believe me start playing with the team analysis tool in BBM and try to construct a team strong in points after selecting Jokic and Draymond early.  Notice the hoops you’d have to jump through to get your points up to even above median.  Run through twenty different teams.  Then turn the point filter off and notice how much stronger you are in other cats when points isn’t a factor.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

Because when you actually do a lot of mocks and play 20 leagues then trends become apparent, particularly when you’re playing against other adept opponents.

 

You’re not paying attention to opportunity costs. If you pick a 20 ppg player in the first round such as Jokic and everyone else is drafting 28 ppg players then you’re behind 8 points from the rest of the league.  How are you going to make that up?  By drafting a guy such as Booker, right?  Well now if you’re punting TO.  Not to mention his other weaknesses.  Ofc you can draft someone like Butler and LMA in the next two rounds, like I did, and stay around the median.  Then you’re not punting.   But if you’re picking someone who is weak relative to others then you either have to deliberately try to make it up on other rounds, or if you don’t want to limit yourself that way, resign yourself to being mediocre in that cat.  Whether you call that “punting”’or not, the label isn’t important. 

 

But I agree, it’s better to focus on what the player is good at then when what he’s not.  Eg Jokic is going a long way to win assists/steals and the efficiency cats.  The players most likely to come back in the second round are either bigs or littles like Butler/Jrue.  If you take a little then you’re way ahead in assists/steals.  While pairing some bigs with Jokic have you crushing rebounds/blocks while still doing ok in assists/steals without ever having a point guard. 

 

Whereas, Draymond pushing you into punt points is a little more obvious.  Even in the fourth round there are 22 ppg players compared to Draymonds 12ppg.  Points also dry up quickly.  How are you going to make up 10 ppg in the fifth round and beyond?  I’m not going to overdraft Lavine or wiggins later and hurt myself in multiple cats to try to win points.

 

Again.  Some of you are operating under the assumption that punting means doing deliberately poorly in a cat for some reason.  Really it’s just admitting well I know I’m not going to be the best in this cat so let’s focus on other things.  Somehow you’ve assigned a stigma in your own mind about punting and therefore refuse to admit you’re doing it.  

 

If you don’t believe me start playing with the team analysis tool in BBM and try to construct a team strong in points after selecting Jokic and Draymond early.  Notice the hoops you’d have to jump through to get your points up to even above median.  Run through twenty different teams.  Then turn the point filter off and notice how much stronger you are in other cats when points isn’t a factor.

 

 

Hmmm these are great points. 

 

It can be hard to balance your team once you take punt level players.  With Jokic / Dray, I would just go full punt points.  

 

Other players like Brook Lopez, Horford Covington, are 3 more that are poor in points, but contribute nicely elsewhere, and by that time you probably already have 3 or 4 higher point players anyway.  You can really only have so many of these players without resigning to the fact that you'll lose points most weeks unless there's scheduling advantages or explosive scoring outbursts, or you're a ninja and somehow get Gallo, CJ, Murray, Sexton, and other higher scoring players later at cost to your build. 

 

Besides making up points, Ive also found punting FT / points / maybe assists is that you're already behind in a category like 3's, and you can also only take on so many players who don't get 3's, like Draymond, Simmons, Butler, LMA, other bigs who don't shoot 3's, etc, and at the same time you can't really take on too many players who do shoot 3s but hurt you in your build...

 

Maybe slightly off track but I've seen Drummond / Simmons as a popular pairing too, but you're punting FT and 3's and still behind in points, that you can still try to makeup at the cost of stacking your build...added to the lack of assists / 3's  / points from the other bigs you'll take later as well...so you're trying to make up points and 3's with your remaining 6 starting roster spots (assuming 10 spots, Drummond, Simmons, and 2 bigs who don't shoot 3s), and whatever bench spots you have.  It's tough!  

Edited by hipriest69
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37 minutes ago, a-rob said:

Dray's gonna average close to 15ppg this year, I think we see the playoff version because he and the whole team has something to prove. Even if Dray averages 12ppg, it still depends who you pick in first 2/3 rounds. If I 2 big time scorers, drafting Draymond doesn't make me punt points, it just helps me solidify Rebounds Assists Steals and Blocks. Just like Gobert, Gobert usually gets drafted in early to mid round 2. When you draft Gobert you don't punt points even if you're not getting big time points from your 2nd pick, because he will be main guy in your FG Rebounds and Blocks. Points is something you can easily make up for in middle rounds

Which players would you draft in middle rounds  for points?

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You're not getting Gallo and bagley in the 8th and 9th rounds in most leagues. More like Wiggins around 10 and sexton 11

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1 hour ago, a-rob said:

First, if you can get James Harden, Curry, Lillard in round 1, then drafting Draymond won't really hurt you much in points. If you don't, in middle rounds you can find 20 ppg scorers like Lavine, Derozan, CJ Mccollum, Tobias Harris, even Gallinari who will average more than 20ppg this year can be had late. TJ Warren, Khris Middleton, Buddy Hield, Jayson Tatum, Blake Griffin and the list goes on. 

if you use

reference, all the players you mentioned were gone by the end of 5th, except Warren who went in 7th.   First 5 rounds can hardly be called middle rounds

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13 hours ago, a-rob said:

Checked now round 5 Lavine, 6 Murray 7 Bagley 8 Bryant 9 Galo.

For the names I mentioned, not all of them will be available rounds 8-10, but you can get more scorers than guys who contribute in stocks in rounds 6-8. And even if the said names will be gone by round 5, in rounds 4 and 5 there will still be plenty of scorers too choose from, and not as many multi-cat guys.

How did Galo fall to 9th I don't know. Every league is different, I've seen otto porter go as early as round 4 to as late as round 7. The point is, Points is one cat that is easy to make up for. Even if the said guys above will not be available by round 6, if you can draft 20 ppg guys in 3 of your first 4 picks then you're still in good shape. you won't guarantee a win in points weekly, but i bet you still stay competitive in it, win some lose some. Not everyone in your team is required to average 20ppg for you to win points. You get Dray or Jokic early you secure several major cats, then you can still go after scorers later in the draft.

I remember before AK47 and Shawn Marion were 2 of my favorite players to draft. Both are not big time scorers, but still produce round 1 round 2 numbers. and when I draft them I don't don't necessarily have to tank points. You draft them early for the stocks, and from my experience, in competitive leagues, managers tend to reach for players who are great in stocks than points. So it gives you more options later in the draft

 

You misread, Gallo and Bryant both went in round 5.  I would not have let either slip past round 5/6.  Lavine went 4th.

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Any league where Porto is available after 4th round is a total joke

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gile Pile said:

Any league where Porto is available after 4th round is a total joke

Sorry, who is Porto? Not Bobby Portis? Or Otto Porter? It looks more possible.

Edited by apatas

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10 minutes ago, apatas said:

Sorry, who is Porto? Not Bobby Portis? Or Otto Porter? It looks more possible.

He’s referring to Otto Porter.

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49 minutes ago, apatas said:

Sorry, who is Porto? Not Bobby Portis? Or Otto Porter? It looks more possible.

Otto Porter

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