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Derrick White 2019-2020 Outlook

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why thank you kind sir

I cant help but notice that people are thinking Derrick White will not be getting enough minutes this season,i think he is a starter and should be in for about 32 or so minutes a night,if he can stay out of the early foul trouble he found himself in too often last season.But it was essentially his rookie season,his January numbers were excellent 15/4/4 1.1st .8 bl 1.1 3's and 50% 75%,he hurt his foot first game of February and never was same after that,even in playoffs when he had that monster game. I think with confidence he will take and make more three's and numbers should go up across the board for him. These tweets are enticing for sure.  

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

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Media couldn’t watch the entire scrimmage between USA’s World Cup team (varsity) and select team (jv). But two people who were in the gym just told me the select team dominated in stretches, and both said one of the biggest reasons why was Derrick White.

2:35 PM - 6 Aug 2019

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

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Doors open mid-scrimmage. Team USA lineup of Kemba-Mitchell-J Brown-Tatum-Turner was quite fun. Substitutions. Derrick White takes floor for select team opposite Fox. Assist. Assist. Lefty layup. Elbow jumper. Fouled at rim for free throws. Yep.

1:37 PM - 7 Aug 2019

 

I think he will be in the MIP discussion this season.

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3 hours ago, luapnor said:

why thank you kind sir

I cant help but notice that people are thinking Derrick White will not be getting enough minutes this season,i think he is a starter and should be in for about 32 or so minutes a night,if he can stay out of the early foul trouble he found himself in too often last season.But it was essentially his rookie season,his January numbers were excellent 15/4/4 1.1st .8 bl 1.1 3's and 50% 75%,he hurt his foot first game of February and never was same after that,even in playoffs when he had that monster game. I think with confidence he will take and make more three's and numbers should go up across the board for him. These tweets are enticing for sure.  

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

FollowFollow @mikefinger

Media couldn’t watch the entire scrimmage between USA’s World Cup team (varsity) and select team (jv). But two people who were in the gym just told me the select team dominated in stretches, and both said one of the biggest reasons why was Derrick White.

2:35 PM - 6 Aug 2019

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

FollowFollow @mikefinger

Doors open mid-scrimmage. Team USA lineup of Kemba-Mitchell-J Brown-Tatum-Turner was quite fun. Substitutions. Derrick White takes floor for select team opposite Fox. Assist. Assist. Lefty layup. Elbow jumper. Fouled at rim for free throws. Yep.

1:37 PM - 7 Aug 2019

 

I think he will be in the MIP discussion this season.

I see what you did there with your user name.

 

gnineppahsti 😅

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Posted (edited)
On 8/8/2019 at 9:36 AM, luapnor said:

why thank you kind sir

I cant help but notice that people are thinking Derrick White will not be getting enough minutes this season,i think he is a starter and should be in for about 32 or so minutes a night,if he can stay out of the early foul trouble he found himself in too often last season.But it was essentially his rookie season,his January numbers were excellent 15/4/4 1.1st .8 bl 1.1 3's and 50% 75%,he hurt his foot first game of February and never was same after that,even in playoffs when he had that monster game. I think with confidence he will take and make more three's and numbers should go up across the board for him. These tweets are enticing for sure.  

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

FollowFollow @mikefinger

Media couldn’t watch the entire scrimmage between USA’s World Cup team (varsity) and select team (jv). But two people who were in the gym just told me the select team dominated in stretches, and both said one of the biggest reasons why was Derrick White.

2:35 PM - 6 Aug 2019

Mike Finger‏Verified account @mikefinger

FollowFollow @mikefinger

Doors open mid-scrimmage. Team USA lineup of Kemba-Mitchell-J Brown-Tatum-Turner was quite fun. Substitutions. Derrick White takes floor for select team opposite Fox. Assist. Assist. Lefty layup. Elbow jumper. Fouled at rim for free throws. Yep.

1:37 PM - 7 Aug 2019

 

I think he will be in the MIP discussion this season.

 

He has a precisely 0 per cent chance of playing 32mpg with Murray, Forbes, Mills, Walker, and Marco all in the backcourt, plus DeMar probably getting some minutes at the 2 to accomodate a Gay-LMA-Poeltl frontcourt rotation at times.

He only played 26mpg last season, and that was with Murray out the entire time. Where are these extra minutes coming from?

Edited by JStyles
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12 hours ago, JStyles said:

 

He has a precisely 0 per cent chance of playing 32mpg with Murray, Forbes, Mills, Walker, and Marco all in the backcourt, plus DeMar probably getting some minutes at the 2 to accomodate a Gay-LMA-Poeltl frontcourt rotation at times.

He only played 26mpg last season, and that was with Murray out the entire time. Where are these extra minutes coming from?

The minutes will come from Mills, Forbes, and Marco.  Mills averaged 23 minutes a game, Forbes 28, and Marco 23.  Murray and White are the horses in this backcourt and they will get 28+ minutes as a floor.  I agree Walker will eventually get rotation minutes and this will be a 3 man rotation with White and Murray, but Pop makes young guys prove themselves so Walker might not be a consistent rotation guy until 2020-21.   Forbes, Mills, and Marco are low minute vets who will fade into the background.  DeMar will not play at the 2.

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I'd be surprised if White gets 30+ minutes a game if all 6 of those guys are on roster on opening night. Also would be surprised if all 3 of Mills-Marco-Forbes are on roster opening night. One of those has to go.

Walker should play 20 minutes per game but probably won't. Already been said that Pops makes young guys prove themselves. Don't see how he can hold Walker back. Maybe Murray gets lighter minutes to start the season. Who knows......Maybe White does get 30+ minutes.......

This just might be the most worthless post on here....Yes White might get 30+ minutes per game. Or he might not.

Derrick White - 28.5 minutes per game.......Over/Under???

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12 minutes ago, dino10k said:

I'd be surprised if White gets 30+ minutes a game if all 6 of those guys are on roster on opening night. Also would be surprised if all 3 of Mills-Marco-Forbes are on roster opening night. One of those has to go.

Walker should play 20 minutes per game but probably won't. Already been said that Pops makes young guys prove themselves. Don't see how he can hold Walker back. Maybe Murray gets lighter minutes to start the season. Who knows......Maybe White does get 30+ minutes.......

This just might be the most worthless post on here....Yes White might get 30+ minutes per game. Or he might not.

Derrick White - 28.5 minutes per game.......Over/Under???


Well, it's Pop after all... I'd say Under... Although it's close...

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On 8/9/2019 at 10:04 PM, El_Chingon said:

The minutes will come from Mills, Forbes, and Marco.  Mills averaged 23 minutes a game, Forbes 28, and Marco 23.  Murray and White are the horses in this backcourt and they will get 28+ minutes as a floor.  I agree Walker will eventually get rotation minutes and this will be a 3 man rotation with White and Murray, but Pop makes young guys prove themselves so Walker might not be a consistent rotation guy until 2020-21.   Forbes, Mills, and Marco are low minute vets who will fade into the background.  DeMar will not play at the 2.

 

As I said, he played 26 mpg last season without Murray. They have retained all their guards, and Murray is now back. Plus, unlike last season, Walker will probably play more than 100 minutes in total this season.

Unless you think Patty or Marco or Forbes are going to be out of the rotation every night, and their minutes will be going to White rather than Murray, it is mathematically impossible.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, JStyles said:

 

As I said, he played 26 mpg last season without Murray. They have retained all their guards, and Murray is now back. Plus, unlike last season, Walker will probably play more than 100 minutes in total this season.

Unless you think Patty or Marco or Forbes are going to be out of the rotation every night, and their minutes will be going to White rather than Murray, it is mathematically impossible.

I agree it's mathematically impossible if you assume that Mills will again average 23 minutes a game, Forbes 28, and Marco 23.  I disagree those 3 will get the same minutes as they did last year.  They are bench depth.  Once Murray is completely up to speed with no load management or minute restrictions, and Walker earns Pop's trust, I do think at least one of Mills/Forbes/or Marco will be completely out of the rotation or no longer on the roster. 

Edited by El_Chingon
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Posted (edited)

Murray/White 28 mpg, Forbes 23ish, Mills/Belinelli 15-17ish

 

Even when Tony Parker was in the prime of his career and the only PG on the team, he was getting 32-34 mpg at best.

Edited by Fantasyscrub

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8 hours ago, El_Chingon said:

I agree it's mathematically impossible if you assume that Mills will again average 23 minutes a game, Forbes 28, and Marco 23.  I disagree those 3 will get the same minutes as they did last year.  They are bench depth.  Once Murray is completely up to speed with no load management or minute restrictions, and Walker earns Pop's trust, I do think at least one of Mills/Forbes/or Marco will be completely out of the rotation or no longer on the roster. 

 

I agree.  I am not worried with either White or Murray's minutes.  They are the stars here.  You guys seriously worried about Patty Mills stealing minutes?  lol he might not even be in the rotation this year.  

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14 hours ago, El_Chingon said:

I agree it's mathematically impossible if you assume that Mills will again average 23 minutes a game, Forbes 28, and Marco 23.  I disagree those 3 will get the same minutes as they did last year.  They are bench depth.  Once Murray is completely up to speed with no load management or minute restrictions, and Walker earns Pop's trust, I do think at least one of Mills/Forbes/or Marco will be completely out of the rotation or no longer on the roster. 

 

5 hours ago, hipriest69 said:

 

I agree.  I am not worried with either White or Murray's minutes.  They are the stars here.  You guys seriously worried about Patty Mills stealing minutes?  lol he might not even be in the rotation this year.  

 

OK let me explain this in a way which might make this clearer.

There are 48 minutes available at PG. Both White and Murray will be exclusively be played at PG because neither of them can shoot 3s (both were under 30% last season). Additionally, while Patty is a good shooter he played almost exclusively as a PG last season (see his rotations here on BBall reference). Walker is also going to solely play as a PG on nights when he is in the rotation.

So it's reasonable to assume the PG rotation is going to be White / Murray / Mills / Walker, with the SG rotation being Marco / Forbes / DeRozan.

For White to average 32 mpg this season, it will require Murray, Mills and Walker to collectively average 16 minutes per night.

Last season Patty averaged 23mpg, Lonnie 7mpg, and Murray averaged 22mpg the year before he got hurt. And now combined, in your scenario, they are going to average 16mpg.

Only two players (DeRozan and LMA) averaged more than 30mpg last season. The season before (2018), only LMA did. In 2017 - only Kawhi and LMA. In fact the last time a PG under Pop averaged more than 30mpg was Tony Parker in 2013, 7 seasons ago, when his main back up Cory Joseph (a 29th pick sophmore) only played 28 games due to injury.

For White to play 30mpg, let alone 32mpg, this season - it would be a historical anomaly from a team rotations perspective, and would mean Pop effectively giving up on Murray and Walker entirely despite both being younger and arguably having more potential. It would also mean him playing Patty at SG or punting him out of the rotation entirely, down from 23mpg last season. None of which is going to happen.

Hashtag BBall has White at 28mpg which i'd say is the best case scenario ceiling. I know Josh Lloyd at BBM has also spoken at length about why the SAS PG rotation this year is going to be a ****show and that it won't be worth taking any of them outside of the last round.

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I quit reading your post as soon as you said that White and Murray will only play PG and won't play minutes together at the same time on the floor.

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1 hour ago, JStyles said:

Both White and Murray will be exclusively be played at PG because neither of them can shoot 3s (both were under 30% last season).

They can defend, and that is what matters.

For (in)ability to shoot 3s, see

 

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2 hours ago, JStyles said:

 

 

OK let me explain this in a way which might make this clearer.

There are 48 minutes available at PG. Both White and Murray will be exclusively be played at PG because neither of them can shoot 3s (both were under 30% last season). Additionally, while Patty is a good shooter he played almost exclusively as a PG last season (see his rotations here on BBall reference). Walker is also going to solely play as a PG on nights when he is in the rotation.

So it's reasonable to assume the PG rotation is going to be White / Murray / Mills / Walker, with the SG rotation being Marco / Forbes / DeRozan.

For White to average 32 mpg this season, it will require Murray, Mills and Walker to collectively average 16 minutes per night.

Last season Patty averaged 23mpg, Lonnie 7mpg, and Murray averaged 22mpg the year before he got hurt. And now combined, in your scenario, they are going to average 16mpg.

Only two players (DeRozan and LMA) averaged more than 30mpg last season. The season before (2018), only LMA did. In 2017 - only Kawhi and LMA. In fact the last time a PG under Pop averaged more than 30mpg was Tony Parker in 2013, 7 seasons ago, when his main back up Cory Joseph (a 29th pick sophmore) only played 28 games due to injury.

For White to play 30mpg, let alone 32mpg, this season - it would be a historical anomaly from a team rotations perspective, and would mean Pop effectively giving up on Murray and Walker entirely despite both being younger and arguably having more potential. It would also mean him playing Patty at SG or punting him out of the rotation entirely, down from 23mpg last season. None of which is going to happen.

Hashtag BBall has White at 28mpg which i'd say is the best case scenario ceiling. I know Josh Lloyd at BBM has also spoken at length about why the SAS PG rotation this year is going to be a ****show and that it won't be worth taking any of them outside of the last round.

 

I've heard it's more likely both start and Derozan will play 3.  Gay at 4.  LMA at 5.  You might be able to add 48 more minutes to the playing time equation.  Even if White comes off the bench and plays less than 28 he'll likely have a higher usage and better ratings attacking 2nd units. 

 

It's still crowded tho and not ideal.  Neither Forbes nor Mills will play the same minutes.  You could say the same for Marco.  They are great players and shooters, but are nowhere close to the same stratosphere of talent as Murray and White.  Walker looked good in Summer League but has not earned any playing time yet, doesn't mean they give up on him, it just means they're stacked and he has to wait his turn.  Walker I think is getting squeezed out (he was never in), and the trio of Mills / Forbes / Marco lose some minutes each.  It is also possible one or more of those players play larger minutes on any given night if they get hot.  If Murray / White play 28 min each, which I think is very possible, that leaves 40 min between the aforementioned trio.  Hard to say.  For Murray you don't really care because he'll be fire even in less than 28 min/night, and you're not drafting him for points (but his offensive game could take off).  White could also be effective but probably needs a little more playing time or usage to unlock his full fantasy value.  A role coming off the bench as the primary initiator and having a higher usage might be better suited for White IRL and for fantasy.  Either way I think we can agree that their ceiling is somewhat capped by their depth but it wouldn't deter me at all from drafting either at a spot where I would feel comfortable taking them (undetermined).  

 

To counter one thing you mentioned, Josh Lloyd has also been saying repeatedly that he is liking White more and more as a fantasy asset this year and beyond and will likely be targeting.  I think other than 10 teamers he won't last until the last round.  I could see the Team USA hype building and him getting over-drafted.  I could also see him pulling a Siakam type breakout and smashing his ADP.  I'd guess he's probably going to be inconsistent on a game to game basis...so maybe roto might be better suited, not sure.       

 

As for shooting, White shot 34% from three last year.  Dejounte has shot 31.5% from three his first 2 years on a total of 57 attempts, not great, but hardly a large sample size.  The Spurs have the best player development and the best shooting coach arguably of all time.  I would bet both get better this year.  

 

It's a somewhat "risky" play given lack of proven consistent production, unclear role, and crowded depth.  It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.  

 

 

 

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On 8/12/2019 at 6:35 PM, JStyles said:

 

 

OK let me explain this in a way which might make this clearer.

There are 48 minutes available at PG. Both White and Murray will be exclusively be played at PG because neither of them can shoot 3s (both were under 30% last season). Additionally, while Patty is a good shooter he played almost exclusively as a PG last season (see his rotations here on BBall reference). Walker is also going to solely play as a PG on nights when he is in the rotation.

So it's reasonable to assume the PG rotation is going to be White / Murray / Mills / Walker, with the SG rotation being Marco / Forbes / DeRozan.

For White to average 32 mpg this season, it will require Murray, Mills and Walker to collectively average 16 minutes per night.

Last season Patty averaged 23mpg, Lonnie 7mpg, and Murray averaged 22mpg the year before he got hurt. And now combined, in your scenario, they are going to average 16mpg.

Only two players (DeRozan and LMA) averaged more than 30mpg last season. The season before (2018), only LMA did. In 2017 - only Kawhi and LMA. In fact the last time a PG under Pop averaged more than 30mpg was Tony Parker in 2013, 7 seasons ago, when his main back up Cory Joseph (a 29th pick sophmore) only played 28 games due to injury.

For White to play 30mpg, let alone 32mpg, this season - it would be a historical anomaly from a team rotations perspective, and would mean Pop effectively giving up on Murray and Walker entirely despite both being younger and arguably having more potential. It would also mean him playing Patty at SG or punting him out of the rotation entirely, down from 23mpg last season. None of which is going to happen.

Hashtag BBall has White at 28mpg which i'd say is the best case scenario ceiling. I know Josh Lloyd at BBM has also spoken at length about why the SAS PG rotation this year is going to be a ****show and that it won't be worth taking any of them outside of the last round.

This seems like a terrible take. You don't have to be a sharpshooter to play SG lol. He shot 34% last year in what was effectively his rookie year, he was also a good 3pt shooter in college and he is a good FT shooter as well. White will start at SG so to say he's not playing ANY minutes there is weird. Patty also played 50% of his minutes at SG when Murray was healthy in 2017-18 (according to CTG). Patty/Marco/Forbes will all see a dip in minutes and Derozan will almost exclusively play at SF

PG: Murray (27), White (12), Patty (8)

SG: White (15), Forbes (15), Patty (7), Lonnie (6), Marco (5)

SF: Derozan (30), Carroll (8), Gay (5), Marco (5)

PF: Gay (18), Lyles (15) Carroll (12), Aldridge (3)

C Aldridge (28), Jakob (20) 

I admit it is hard to get White more than 27 mins, in order for that to happen Marco would probably need to be eliminated from the regular rotation completely. Regardless, White is killing TEAM USA scrimmages and drawing praise from literally everybody. He's a very very good player and people are starting to realize that, the rotation is a bit murky this year but he is a nice dynasty hold, his ceiling could be a poor man's Jrue Holiday. Could get up to 16/5/4.5 1.5 stls 0.9 blks 1.5 3's in a year or 2 if given 30+ mpg.

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7 minutes ago, Brandon27 said:

This seems like a terrible take. You don't have to be a sharpshooter to play SG lol. He shot 34% last year in what was effectively his rookie year, he was also a good 3pt shooter in college and he is a good FT shooter as well. White will start at SG so to say he's not playing ANY minutes there is weird. Patty also played 50% of his minutes at SG when Murray was healthy in 2017-18 (according to CTG). Patty/Marco/Forbes will all see a dip in minutes and Derozan will almost exclusively play at SF

PG: Murray (27), White (12), Patty (8)

SG: White (15), Forbes (15), Patty (7), Lonnie (11)

SF: Derozan (30), Carroll (8), Gay (5), Lonnie 5

PF: Gay (18), Lyles (15) Carroll (12), Aldridge (3)

C Aldridge (28), Jakob (20) 

 

I admit it is hard to get White more than 27 mins, in order for that to happen Marco would probably need to be eliminated from the regular rotation completely. Regardless, White is killing TEAM USA scrimmages and drawing praise from literally everybody. He's a very very good player and people are starting to realize that, the rotation is a bit murky this year but he is a nice dynasty hold, his ceiling could be a poor man's Jrue Holiday. Could get up to 16/5/4.5 1.5 stls 0.9 blks 1.5 3's in a year or 2 if given 30+ mpg.

I would also like to point out that the Spurs ran a 10 man rotation last year and they ran a 10 man rotation in 2017-18 with a healthy Murray (and Kawhi being hurt). Going back a little further it seems the max number of guys who are a part of the regular rotation is 11, the rotation I have above is 12 people: Carroll replaces Bertans and Lyles replaces Cunningham. With the a returning Murray and a progressing Lonnie Walker it would not be surprising if Bellineli is actually not a part of the rotation.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Brandon27 said:

I would also like to point out that the Spurs ran a 10 man rotation last year and they ran a 10 man rotation in 2017-18 with a healthy Murray (and Kawhi being hurt). Going back a little further it seems the max number of guys who are a part of the regular rotation is 11, the rotation I have above is 12 people: Carroll replaces Bertans and Lyles replaces Cunningham. With the a returning Murray and a progressing Lonnie Walker it would not be surprising if Bellineli is actually not a part of the rotation.

 

I'm going to say the rotation you listed seems close, but I would probably squeeze out Walker and Lyles, and give more minutes to Belinelli, Forbes, and Carroll.  Bellineli was fire last year and one of the best bench shooters in the league imo (you could probably say that about the entire Spurs 2nd unit sans Jakob).  

 

So probably insert Bellineli and push Carroll and Gay down exclusively to PF minutes, take out Lyles.  There's 15-20 min for Marco.  

Edited by hipriest69

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Looks like he is not in starting lineup. Then also not worth to draft in 12 team league. Minutes at guard position looks like: Murray 32, Forbes 26, White 20, Mills 18.

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White should get 28 minutes with more freedom/usage coming off the bench in that Manu’s role. 

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if you're playing 10 cat, with the 10th being "foreheads" this guy gotta go first round

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I drafted him in the 9th round and I’ll take a wait and see approach.

He’s the best two way combo guard on the roster. His outside shot is a lot better than people think, it’s just that Pops handicaps his team by still catering to an old school mid range game since he thinks chucking threes isn’t classy.

He’s high floor low ceiling in his current role, but the difference with White is that he could very quickly become high ceiling if Pops realizes he’s just a far better talent than Forbes/belli/mills. 

Lonnie is the only other guy on the roster with his two way upside (I don’t count Murray because he’s not a good enough shooter currently).

I had him projected for 12/4/4/1/1 and 1 three, which is what bbm has him at as well on solid percentages.

He went from a rookie playing 8 minutes to near 26 minutes in his sophomore campaign, it’s rare for Pops to trust young players like that. Pops also coached team USA at FIBA and made sure to get White on the roster, that’s a boost of confidence.

Don’t forget as a sophomore this guy had a game against the Nuggets where he put up 15/21 shooting, 36/5/5/3/1 and 1 3. He played really well the entire series. He’s a big defensive guard who’s a swiss army knife offensively, and is a solid athlete. There is no position battle as far as I’m concerned, it’s just that I’d rather he be the starter, and I predict eventually he will because Forbes is really small for a shooting guard.

Edited by Lifschitz
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5 hours ago, apatas said:

Looks like he is not in starting lineup. Then also not worth to draft in 12 team league. Minutes at guard position looks like: Murray 32, Forbes 26, White 20, Mills 18.

We can add Marco Belinelli to this list as well

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