s-kayos

Jonathan Isaac 2019-2020 Outlook

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Jon Isaac started slow but finished fairly strong last season, averaging 11 pts 6 reb 0.7 stl 1.1 blk & 1.8 threes on 44% FG.

There are also rumors that the 6'10'' forward not only added more muscle, but has grown even more over the summer, here he is standing next to 7'0'' Nic Vucevic:

 

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25 minutes ago, s-kayos said:

Jon Isaac started slow but finished fairly strong last season, averaging 11 pts 6 reb 0.7 stl 1.1 blk & 1.8 threes on 44% FG.

There are also rumors that the 6'10'' forward not only added more muscle, but has grown even more over the summer, here he is standing next to 7'0'' Nic Vucevic:

 

Image

These dudes all need a wardrobe makeover. 

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I am still a huge believer in Isaac. His upside just fits the way I like to attack fantasy basketball. The kid is so young and people seem to lack the patience for projects. I hope he isn't hyped going into the year so I can draft him again and question my sanity when he sprains an ankle in November. 

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I am big believe.  Kid has grown even more and looks jacked.  He'll be a fantasy stud for years.  Love the stocks!

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3 hours ago, therealmikeshinoda said:

 

But he is; his projected draft rank is quite high

It's fair.

Given what he showed in the second half of season, not to mention longer and stronger, this guy is worth your bet to party with stocks. His ceiling is better than prime ak47

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stock is now even higher with today's news

 

  • The Athletic's Josh Robbins guessed that Jonathan Isaac should make the biggest leap for the Magic in the 2019-20 season.

    Robbins has covering the Magic for 10 years, so he's the most trusted reporter for that squad. We've seen a ton of buzz around Isaac yet again this season, and he's just massive these days and showed he still has a face-up game. With Aaron Gordon maybe being in the post more, things could really open up for Isaac in what should be numerous mismatches. His sky-high upside makes him a strong target in the early-mid rounds.

    SOURCE: The Athletic
    Sep 27, 2019, 5:32 PM ET
     
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44 minutes ago, gooseball said:

It's fair.

Given what he showed in the second half of season, not to mention longer and stronger, this guy is worth your bet to party with stocks. His ceiling is better than prime ak47

His upside is better than 16/8/4 with 3.3 blocks, 1.6 steals, and 2 threes?

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12 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

His upside is better than 16/8/4 with 3.3 blocks, 1.6 steals, and 2 threes?

I'd be happy w 12/6/2 1.5 3s, 1.2 stls, 1.4 blocks

 

Prime AK 47 was a beast...

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4 minutes ago, chaiway said:

I'd be happy w 12/6/2 1.5 3s, 1.2 stls, 1.4 blocks

 

Prime AK 47 was a beast...

Yeah he could hit those numbers... No forward in the modern nba has the upside of AK47 because of the way the game is currently played.  

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13 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Yeah he could hit those numbers... No forward in the modern nba has the upside of AK47 because of the way the game is currently played.  

He essentially hit (or exceeded) those #s in the last 2 months with the exception of steals which I hope return. Has upside above that and hopefully even a slight uptick in efficiency

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8 minutes ago, therealmikeshinoda said:

i'm still not convinced with this kid .. i got more confident in Jaren Jackson Jr

They are going in different rounds, JJJ often pre 50, Isaac is usually still there in the 70s and possibly later

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2 hours ago, StifleTower2 said:

His upside is better than 16/8/4 with 3.3 blocks, 1.6 steals, and 2 threes?

Woah, I didn't know he avged 3.3 blocks for the reason at his prime.

He must have been top 5 pick at that time then?

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1 hour ago, therealmikeshinoda said:

i'm still not convinced with this kid .. i got more confident in Jaren Jackson Jr 

I'm more confident in LeBron than this bum.

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53 minutes ago, gooseball said:

Woah, I didn't know he avged 3.3 blocks for the reason at his prime.

He must have been top 5 pick at that time then?

Yeah, AK47, Garnett, and Matrix were all athletic freak forwards.  The three of them combined for 5.5 steals/6.3 blocks per game...which averages to 1.8/2.1...three different forward basically averaging 2/2.  Highly doubtful we see a trio like that again.  Porter and RoCo are as close as they get and they're not even close.  This pair are 2.5+ stock guys compared to the 4 stock guys of the past.   

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This is another case where I hate yahoo’s valuation. You’re bumping up a completely unproven prospect to 5th - 6th round ADP based on hype, where is the value in picking him? 

If he busts, you just missed out on multiple more productive players because Yahoo! practically guaranteed he’s worth that round.

If I’m going to take the coveted 1/1/1 pick the 6th-7th round options of Oubre, Bridges, and Josh Richardson (to some extent) make a lot more sense. It scares me taking a pick based on pure upside at such a high round. I’ve made that mistake in the past a few times and got horribly burned. You can even go TJ warren in the 7th or 8th and that’s a very nice high upside gamble if he plays a healthy season. I really don’t know why he’s not getting more love. 

One thing to note, you could literally search 60-70 percent of NBA players on google and click news and you’ll get a plethora of September training camp articles showing how promising their outlook is this year and how hard they’ve worked and how much muscle they’ve gained, so take a lot of with a grain of salt and take it on a case by case basis.

Edited by Lifschitz
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Pros:

- young with massive upside for stocks

- good FT and measurements/size show possible growth in FG% coming

- grew to 7 feet tall, if he develops guard skills then upside as a scorer would make him a potentially top 3 round guy. You could have a Durant like type swing if he brought that just based on his physical profile.

Cons:

- bad FG/3 point fg through two years (can dismiss given upside/size)

- adp way too high based on actual stats, his stats aren’t better than several guys listed rounds below him. Leaves little room for gain, you’re banking he absolutely hits his rank mark

- usage rate was a meagre 16.3%, the league average is 19%, and the lowest totals are around 10%, that means he’s not getting the ball much.

Vucevic eats at 28%, Fournier 22%, Gordon 21.8%, augustin 17.8%, so that already shows you Isaac is the 5th option here. Now you mix and match with guys like Ross (career high 24% usage), and bring Markelle Fultz into the fold and it really doesn’t look promising. He already averaged a pretty lowly 8 fga and just 1.8 fta in 26 min, where do you think he’s going from here? He’s not going to suddenly jump from 8 fga to 14 fga, he’s got a ton of chuckers around him. He’s likely to come in at just a slightly higher usage and around 10 fga, so expecting around 11-12 ppg is realistic unless you think they’re trading vucevic, which would sink their team straight back to missing the postseason.

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29 minutes ago, Lifschitz said:

Pros:

- young with massive upside for stocks

- good FT and measurements/size show possible growth in FG% coming

- grew to 7 feet tall, if he develops guard skills then upside as a scorer would make him a potentially top 3 round guy. You could have a Durant like type swing if he brought that just based on his physical profile.

Cons:

- bad FG/3 point fg through two years (can dismiss given upside/size)

- adp way too high based on actual stats, his stats aren’t better than several guys listed rounds below him. Leaves little room for gain, you’re banking he absolutely hits his rank mark

- usage rate was a meagre 16.3%, the league average is 19%, and the lowest totals are around 10%, that means he’s not getting the ball much.

Vucevic eats at 28%, Fournier 22%, Gordon 21.8%, augustin 17.8%, so that already shows you Isaac is the 5th option here. Now you mix and match with guys like Ross (career high 24% usage), and bring Markelle Fultz into the fold and it really doesn’t look promising. He already averaged a pretty lowly 8 fga and just 1.8 fta in 26 min, where do you think he’s going from here? He’s not going to suddenly jump from 8 fga to 14 fga, he’s got a ton of chuckers around him. He’s likely to come in at just a slightly higher usage and around 10 fga, so expecting around 11-12 ppg is realistic unless you think they’re trading vucevic, which would sink their team straight back to missing the postseason.

Not expecting a lot of counting stats but 3s + stls + blks on good % would be gold to shore up a team. Very hard to find the combined stl + blk combo. And SF eligibility...

Plugs the holes left by a lot of the earlier low stocks pics - Booker, Collins, Gallo, Brogo, etc...

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23 minutes ago, chaiway said:

Not expecting a lot of counting stats but 3s + stls + blks on good % would be gold to shore up a team. Very hard to find the combined stl + blk combo. And SF eligibility...

Plugs the holes left by a lot of the earlier low stocks pics - Booker, Collins, Gallo, Brogo, etc...

 

I’m not discounting that, my argument is you can get a semblance of that a round, two rounds, or three rounds later with guys who have a safer floor, bigger roles, and their own upside.

- Oubre is 1/1/1, gives you plenty of scoring and has actually shown he’s getting better with percentages, his adp is two rounds below Isaac.

- you can wait until the 7th potentially 8th and nab Warren who’s also 1/1/1 with better percentages. It’s a mitigated risk, if he’s healthy he can outplay his ADP by three four five rounds. He’s a top 40 player when you look at his actual stat profile from last season, the only reason he’s so undervalued is his health (all of which were unlucky knick knack injuries).

Warren is a hell of a scorer, very smooth. Pacers need wing offence badly. He’s a way better gamble to me than taking a 5th option low usage guy in the 5th or 6th round who’s basically Jerami Grant with higher FT percentage.

you need some sort of floor justification. At least with JJJ you’ve seen the floor, all Isaac has shown is that he has potential to be an elite shot blocking wing thus far. I’m just not willing to pay a top 5 round pick for that kind of gamble. 

Let’s separate this though, it’s not that I’m not a believer, in fact I think Isaac has all the tools, but I’m looking at all angles and it’s not worth the current price versus the gamble.

 

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9 hours ago, Lifschitz said:

 

- usage rate was a meagre 16.3%, the league average is 19%, and the lowest totals are around 10%, that means he’s not getting the ball much.

Just out of curiosity doesn’t the league average in usage have to be 20%,  by definition?  What, are the cheerleaders chopping the remaining five percent?

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7 hours ago, Lifschitz said:

 

I’m not discounting that, my argument is you can get a semblance of that a round, two rounds, or three rounds later with guys who have a safer floor, bigger roles, and their own upside.

- Oubre is 1/1/1, gives you plenty of scoring and has actually shown he’s getting better with percentages, his adp is two rounds below Isaac.

- you can wait until the 7th potentially 8th and nab Warren who’s also 1/1/1 with better percentages. It’s a mitigated risk, if he’s healthy he can outplay his ADP by three four five rounds. He’s a top 40 player when you look at his actual stat profile from last season, the only reason he’s so undervalued is his health (all of which were unlucky knick knack injuries).

Warren is a hell of a scorer, very smooth. Pacers need wing offence badly. He’s a way better gamble to me than taking a 5th option low usage guy in the 5th or 6th round who’s basically Jerami Grant with higher FT percentage.

you need some sort of floor justification. At least with JJJ you’ve seen the floor, all Isaac has shown is that he has potential to be an elite shot blocking wing thus far. I’m just not willing to pay a top 5 round pick for that kind of gamble. 

Let’s separate this though, it’s not that I’m not a believer, in fact I think Isaac has all the tools, but I’m looking at all angles and it’s not worth the current price versus the gamble.

 

I like the TJW take and agree that he slides but expect more rbs and as you mentioned significantly more blocks from Isaac. The weight gain and play from team USA scrimmage is promising as well.

As for Oubre, I've seen him go before or near Isaac and seems like a gamble as last year seems like an outlier and some of it came without booker

 

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27 minutes ago, StifleTower2 said:

Just out of curiosity doesn’t the league average in usage have to be 20%,  by definition?  What, are the cheerleaders chopping the remaining five percent?

 

Haha that’s just what I found through google search

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12 hours ago, a-rob said:

come on guys, I was looking for Isaac thread earlier, never bothered to start one to keep him a sleeper. Don't make him the worst kept secret out there.

We all say we love 1/1/1 guys, Isaac is probably the only player who has 1.5/ 1.5 / 1.5 upside. Based from pics that are being posted around social media, not only has he bulked up, but he is also taller now. I think he is over 7 ft now. A 7 ft SF who has decent handles and decent shooter. Sign me up. Will aggressive in going after him. 

 

Do not ever, ever disrespect Thy Lord!  Last year he was 0.2 blocks from doing just this (albeit in limited GP). 

But in all seriousness, Johnny Isaac looks like a longer RoCo with a better FT stroke.  We've seen RoCo produce at top-30 levels with a similar stat profile, so I believe the hype around the youngster is well merited.  

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